Cup RACE thread --- Richmond

NASCAR needs to clarify, is jumping the start only legal in overtime? If not then how many laps remaining at the restart is the cut off between when you can and can't do it?
 
Time to introduce ETR (electronic throttle release) so everybody gets to start at the same time.

They can get HMS is set up the application and keep it in sync for everyone.
 
aunty dive said:
Fire the guy who hired Elton Sawyer.
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Sawyer swallowed the whistle…it’s that simple, and that frustrating. They didn’t want to yank the Hamturd and didn’t have enough time to make the right call (violation) before he crossed the finish line. NASCAR, for some reason, hates the idea of changing the winner after they’ve already done their burn out and photo ops, so they will make excuses.

Wrestling On Wheels….thats your NASCAR folks!
 
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Revman said:
I hear you, but I like the no call for reasons other than the obvious. I don't want to see 3-4 drivers penalized at the end of races for laying back and jumping. NASCAR just like State Patrol people are there to keep order with a reasonable interpretation of the rules. I have never been pulled over for a 65 in a 60.....or even a 70 in a 60. I think technology gives us access to understanding that we have never had....and I think we, as a society, struggle with what to do with that. Do we want our sport officiated like a Kindergarten classroom? I don't think we do. Just to pre-empt the inevitable accusations of bias (which I have never denied), if Willy B. jumped the restarted by a 1/2 mile at COTA, it wouldn't been a problem for me. He deserved that win. We are taking away accolades for a Felon level pit stop away from the 11 team. If you are going to nail the 11, you are nailing the 22....and maybe the 19.

Nail them all? Don't think so.

Wait a minute. So, you can lay back? ....and why would the control car match those behind him....shouldn't it be the other way around? .....and feathering the throttle....What are the parameters for that in SMT? You get where I am going with this? I am not sure that this can be policed the way some want it to be policed. What I will say is this....If Hamlin went early...the start should be called off, and re-rack them. MTJ would deserve his shot at it. None of this DQ after the fact bull****.

As you know, I have great respect for you input here. I am not trying to prove anything....I just want to learn. Talk to me about this...
dailydownforce.com

Drivers Speak Out on NASCAR Penalizing Restarts - The Daily Downforce

Last weekend, NASCAR penalized Chase Elliott and A.J. Allmendinger for laying back on restarts. It is a controversy that seems to be brought up every so often, but NASCAR truly started enforcing the rule last weekend. Some drivers spoke out about NASCAR enforcing laying back on restarts, so...
dailydownforce.com dailydownforce.com
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I get what you’re saying but this is a black and white call.

Hamlin went early. That’s literally not in dispute.

But instead of a mea culpa, NASCAR is now telling us it’s okay for the leader to jump the restart.

Their decision here has taken a bad rule (the restart zone) and made it even worse.

If NASCAR thinks the leader is entitled to this kind of advantage, they really need to just do Delaware starts.
 
Greg said:
I am thinking the same thing but I think there is a correction and it will happen.

They should have a closed door meeting with the drivers and owners and spell out the future policy or protocols in very clear terms to prevent the temptation for any future violations
They should also inform them of what the shut up fines will be if they disclose any information from the meeting to the public (benevolent dictatorship 101)

All of this is speculation but that's what I would do to put it to rest.
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Oh you can bet a NASCAR memo is being prepared now that will be released to the teams this week warning them about restarts and it will make its way to the Media.
 
Spotter22 said:
Oh you can bet a NASCAR memo is being prepared now that will be released to the teams this week warning them about restarts and it will make its way to the Media.
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This can be handled like the Twisted Sister. Bring that **** back, and you will be embarrassed. ALL of you....even those who NASCAR simply thinks were laying back.
 
Conover said:
Sawyer swallowed the whistle…it’s that simple, and that frustrating. They didn’t want to yank the Hamturd and didn’t have enough time to make the right call (violation) before he crossed the finish line. NASCAR, for some reason, hates the idea of changing the winner after they’ve already done their burn out and photo ops, so they will make excuses.

Wrestling On Wheels….thats your NASCAR folks!
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It's my fault because of my Racing Forum Bold Prediction regarding winners being disqualified. They certainly don't want me to have any possibility of winning that prestigious award.
 
aunty dive said:
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I long for the day that some driver, after getting “Dennyed” up into the wall, gets enough of this puke and beats the smart azz snot out of his doppy face. Kurt Bush changed his songbook after his attitude adjustment. Narcissistic Hamnob is just sowing the seeds for one. This crap has nothing to do with playing “black hat villain” in the NASCAR circus. He cheats…pure and simple. He takes excessive advantage, because HIS winning is all that matters to HIM. Denny is ALWAYS RIGHT….isn't that what Larson said about him? Narcissists are exactly this. If things get really bad for him he’ll probably start a crybaby movement for supporting his struggles. I can just see the script:

“Narcissism isn’t a choice…it’s a condition. Denny Hamlin suffers from it. Instead of beating him up, let’s show some understanding and support. Here’s how you can help. When Denny jumps the restart, or does the occasional push on a car into the wall, don’t judge…and don’t boo…it’s not his fault.

NASCAR salutes Denny on his brave struggle, and asks all fans to join us!”
 
Conover said:
I long for the day that some driver, after getting “Dennyed” up into the wall, gets enough of this puke and beats the smart azz snot out of his doppy face. Kurt Bush changed his songbook after his attitude adjustment. Narcissistic Hamnob is just sowing the seeds for one. This crap has nothing to do with playing “black hat villain” in the NASCAR circus. He cheats…pure and simple. He takes excessive advantage, because HIS winning is all that matters to HIM. Denny is ALWAYS RIGHT….isn't that what Larson said about him? Narcissists are exactly this. If things get really bad for him he’ll probably start a crybaby movement for supporting his struggles. I can just see the script:

“Narcissism isn’t a choice…it’s a condition. Denny Hamlin suffers from it. Instead of beating him up, let’s show some understanding and support. Here’s how you can help. When Denny jumps the restart, or does the occasional push on a car into the wall, don’t judge…and don’t boo…it’s not his fault.

NASCAR salutes Denny on his brave struggle, and asks all fans to join us!”
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I mean damn.....in the comments he's not even denying he jumped it. I give him credit....He responds directly to people on their who comment. I don't think many do that.
 
Greg said:
Time to introduce ETR (electronic throttle release) so everybody gets to start at the same time.

They can get HMS is set up the application and keep it in sync for everyone.
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^^^^^THIS^^^^^

As much as I hate the idea, as it might seem like they're turning races into a pseudo video game, drivers will continue to jump restarts for as long as they're able to.
 
pjmolo said:
^^^^^THIS^^^^^

As much as I hate the idea, as it might seem like they're turning races into a pseudo video game, drivers will continue to jump restarts for as long as they're able to.
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I was really posting the idea for laughs. But you are correct about the ability to regulate matters

The AI part of my phone over the idea.
 
Conover said:
I long for the day that some driver, after getting “Dennyed” up into the wall, gets enough of this puke and beats the smart azz snot out of his doppy face. Kurt Bush changed his songbook after his attitude adjustment. Narcissistic Hamnob is just sowing the seeds for one. This crap has nothing to do with playing “black hat villain” in the NASCAR circus. He cheats…pure and simple. He takes excessive advantage, because HIS winning is all that matters to HIM. Denny is ALWAYS RIGHT….isn't that what Larson said about him? Narcissists are exactly this. If things get really bad for him he’ll probably start a crybaby movement for supporting his struggles. I can just see the script:

“Narcissism isn’t a choice…it’s a condition. Denny Hamlin suffers from it. Instead of beating him up, let’s show some understanding and support. Here’s how you can help. When Denny jumps the restart, or does the occasional push on a car into the wall, don’t judge…and don’t boo…it’s not his fault.

NASCAR salutes Denny on his brave struggle, and asks all fans to join us!”
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We already have someone out there that's knocked Hamlin down a few pegs more than once. Ross Chastain is Denny Hamlin's big bad wolf.
 
I absolutely hate to say this because I've known Elton for sometime but he is the SVP of operations and this falls at his feet. You cant penalize SVG and send him back 20 some positions for breaking track limits by mere inches and not do the same with Denny and then go to the media right after the race and say the call was good even though it clearly was NOT. He may have to fall on the proverbial sword and take another position within the originaztion, I don't think he should be fired because the man is super smart and he knows the business and NASCAR needs his expertise.

Then we have Denny, the guy clearly doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut and let sleeping dogs lie but his ego gets the better of him and he keeps stirring the shiiit and then wonders why people wont let it go. New podcast name for Denny - Actions Detrimental to Denny
 
Conover said:
I long for the day that some driver, after getting “Dennyed” up into the wall, gets enough of this puke and beats the smart azz snot out of his doppy face. Kurt Bush changed his songbook after his attitude adjustment. Narcissistic Hamnob is just sowing the seeds for one. This crap has nothing to do with playing “black hat villain” in the NASCAR circus. He cheats…pure and simple. He takes excessive advantage, because HIS winning is all that matters to HIM. Denny is ALWAYS RIGHT….isn't that what Larson said about him? Narcissists are exactly this. If things get really bad for him he’ll probably start a crybaby movement for supporting his struggles. I can just see the script:

“Narcissism isn’t a choice…it’s a condition. Denny Hamlin suffers from it. Instead of beating him up, let’s show some understanding and support. Here’s how you can help. When Denny jumps the restart, or does the occasional push on a car into the wall, don’t judge…and don’t boo…it’s not his fault.

NASCAR salutes Denny on his brave struggle, and asks all fans to join us!”
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Two of three, and we're heading to Martinsville. Buckle up.
 
pjmolo said:
^^^^^THIS^^^^^

As much as I hate the idea, as it might seem like they're turning races into a pseudo video game, drivers will continue to jump restarts for as long as they're able to.
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Are you ****** serious? We will do this, but oh hell no to pit road speed limiters....and tire pressure sensors? We have lost our ****** minds. Who the hell got hurt in all of this. MTJ has about two fans, so are they the ones that are pissed? Joey fans? Do they really think they have a right to think that they could win this? This is because Denny gets under people's skin, and his popularity is skyrocketing...remember what Senior said about the boos. Denny is 100% correct...get the **** over it.
 
Spotter22 said:
I absolutely hate to say this because I've known Elton for sometime but he is the SVP of operations and this falls at his feet. You cant penalize SVG and send him back 20 some positions for breaking track limits by mere inches and not do the same with Denny and then go to the media right after the race and say the call was good even though it clearly was NOT. He may have to fall on the proverbial sword and take another position within the originaztion, I don't think he should be fired because the man is super smart and he knows the business and NASCAR needs his expertise.

Then we have Denny, the guy clearly doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut and let sleeping dogs lie but his ego gets the better of him and he keeps stirring the shiiit and then wonders why people wont let it go. New podcast name for Denny - Actions Detrimental to Denny
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I think Sawyer has done a wonderful job. He gets it. The sanctioning body is battling the accessibility of data, and a social media world that doesn't know its head from its ass. Great no call. I don't want the 19 and 22 hammered for lying back any more than I wanted to see Denny get busted. Call them into the hauler, chew their asses, and then nail them to the ****** wall if they are not obvious about conceding. Problem fixed, and NASCAR Nation can bitch about something else next weekend.
 
Revman said:
I think Sawyer has done a wonderful job. He gets it. The sanctioning body is battling the accessibility of data, and a social media world that doesn't know its head from its ass. Great no call. I don't want the 19 and 22 hammered for lying back any more than I wanted to see Denny get busted. Call them into the hauler, chew their asses, and then nail them to the ****** wall if they are not obvious about conceding. Problem fixed, and NASCAR Nation can bitch about something else next weekend.
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I see you've adopted the whole " laying back " thing. What's the acceptable distance on that? What's the rule state on the restart zone for the control car?
 
Blaze said:
I’m sure if he lost to someone who jumped the restart, he wouldn’t be getting over it and moving on.
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I love how he's like "y'all just sour." Yeah - Kind of like he is for never winning a championship. LOL
 
Spotter22 said:
I see you've adopted the whole " laying back " thing. What's the acceptable distance on that? What's the rule state on the restart zone for the control car?
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Exactly. The grey area means there will be issues in the future. There is a restart line and there is data showing when they take off. Case closed. They can also use data for a minimum speed coming to the green so no BS laying back. Timing restarts is and art that comes down to part driver and part set up. When I was a Kasey Kahne fan he used to get roasted for his restarts a lot but go back and look at his last win at Atlanta and his last win ever at Indy. 2 of the best restarts you will see and they were CLEAN with no BS. You win some and you lose some. It's called sports but jumping one like that to win and THEN laughing in everyone's face about it and saying "So what, get over it" basically? Just when I thought I could not lose more respect for Hamlin and was trying to appreciate how good he is. I will defend though that I don't think he "used up" Truex. Want to see a teammate use up their teammate? See Watkins Glem in 2022 and what Larson did to Chase.
 
Spotter22 said:
I see you've adopted the whole " laying back " thing. What's the acceptable distance on that? What's the rule state on the restart zone for the control car?
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Yeah, I don't think that those issues are mutually exclusive. So, because laying back isn't clear, go for it? This would make Joey smile. How much fun would he have baiting the leader--who is supposed to actually have the advantage--into jumping, and screwing his race? As a result, I don't think you double down. If you can't enforce the rule, **** can it.
 
Conover said:
Rev, I like you man, but your Denny blinders are really thick. And yes I hate the guy, so I admit my bias, but most everyone agrees he’s a pr*ck and jumped way early…too early for a no call.
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Most everybody agrees he's a prick....or that he jumped early? Because the prick part is ever changing....ever thought you'd see @StandOnIt love up on Spin Cycle Busch? A simple team/manufacturer change.....That he jumped the start? Hell yes. Undeniable. Joey being a dick, and playing the herky jerk? Always does. You hate Denny. That's fine....but would you rather have a guy bait a leader into penalty with laying back. NASCAR didn't like either. Saw bull**** on both sides, and basically said, 'Okay, you all will embarrass us this time, but next time....." Great no call....it's just that the fandom don't know how good it was. You screw with this, you have a mess.
 
Chase Fan 79 said:
Exactly. The grey area means there will be issues in the future. There is a restart line and there is data showing when they take off. Case closed. They can also use data for a minimum speed coming to the green so no BS laying back. Timing restarts is and art that comes down to part driver and part set up. When I was a Kasey Kahne fan he used to get roasted for his restarts a lot but go back and look at his last win at Atlanta and his last win ever at Indy. 2 of the best restarts you will see and they were CLEAN with no BS. You win some and you lose some. It's called sports but jumping one like that to win and THEN laughing in everyone's face about it and saying "So what, get over it" basically? Just when I thought I could not lose more respect for Hamlin and was trying to appreciate how good he is. I will defend though that I don't think he "used up" Truex. Want to see a teammate use up their teammate? See Watkins Glem in 2022 and what Larson did to Chase.
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Denny is not wrong on getting over it. He is laughing at those who won't let it go because of him. Do you think this is an issue if Chasey does it? Naw, we file that under "gamesmanship." It isn't that big of a deal. Either Martin or Denny deserved that win, and Denny's team sealed the fate of the 19 with a clutch stop.....but let's not talk about that....
 
Revman said:
Denny is not wrong on getting over it. He is laughing at those who won't let it go because of him. Do you think this is an issue if Chasey does it? Naw, we file that under "gamesmanship." It isn't that big of a deal. Either Martin or Denny deserved that win, and Denny's team sealed the fate of the 19 with a clutch stop.....but let's not talk about that....
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If Chase did it I would say that I am happy he got the win of course but I would acknowledge that NASCAR would have been in their right to penalize him. I try really hard to look at my favorite driver objectively. I will be a fan for good unless he does something extremely egregious but I will criticize him at times like anyone else as well. I have criticized him before for being too hard on himself, needing to improve on restarts (which showed up at Richmond) and noted that he should not have dumped Hamlin like that at the 600 even if I can relate to the frustration and losing your head for a second in the heat of the moment. I also think when Larson used him up at the Glen he should not have gone right to the HMS powers to complain while he was still on camera. That was not a good look no matter how in the right he was for being pissed. I feel like he has always raced Larson with more respect than Larson has given him but in that moment in that context it looked like a kid crying to mom and dad about a scrapped knee.

My issue now with Denny is not so much what happened. He jumped the restart and should have been penalized but he wasn't. Life goes on but he is the one who is getting in people's face about it now and he should just shut up. I also don't think he really deserved to win the race. The best cars all night we the 19 and 5 so they probably deserved it more. He drove a good race other than that restart but was never a race winning car all night and it just kind of fell into his lap at the end. Maybe I am just "sour" because I'd love to see a race fall into Chase's lap. LOL
 
Chase Fan 79 said:
If Chase did it I would say that I am happy he got the win of course but I would acknowledge that NASCAR would have been in their right to penalize him. I try really hard to look at my favorite driver objectively. I will be a fan for good unless he does something extremely egregious but I will criticize him at times like anyone else as well. I have criticized him before for being too hard on himself, needing to improve on restarts (which showed up at Richmond) and noted that he should not have dumped Hamlin like that at the 600 even if I can relate to the frustration and losing your head for a second in the heat of the moment. I also think when Larson used him up at the Glen he should not have gone right to the HMS powers to complain while he was still on camera. That was not a good look no matter how in the right he was for being pissed. I feel like he has always raced Larson with more respect than Larson has given him but in that moment in that context it looked like a kid crying to mom and dad about a scrapped knee.

My issue now with Denny is not so much what happened. He jumped the restart and should have been penalized but he wasn't. Life goes on but he is the one who is getting in people's face about it now and he should just shut up. I also don't think he really deserved to win the race. The best cars all night we the 19 and 5 so they probably deserved it more. He drove a good race other than that restart but was never a race winning car all night and it just kind of fell into his lap at the end. Maybe I am just "sour" because I'd love to see a race fall into Chase's lap. LOL
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I am totally acknowledging that Denny jumped the start, but I don't think that what he did can be objectively discussed without talking about laying back. You penalized Denny and reward Joey.....buckle up. This is only a problem if people **** themselves over the no call...which they have....because this is the day we live in. We want our sports governed like a kindergarten classroom.....and that's not the way rules work anywhere.....this is why we have the court system. IF NASCAR was to do anything in that situation.....calll off the start.....rerack with Denny at the back, and give Martin the race back....Can you even do that on a track that short? Penalizing Denny, and handing the race to Joey after Denny raced Martin would be stupid. Again, all of this because NASCAR fans whine their asses off.
 
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