Daytona 500 RACE thread ! !

RacerrecaR

Noodles belong in chili
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Messages
2,378
Points
443
I don’t want to hear about the d word
Fair enough but it is part of the sport and ignoring its existence only slows the evolution of safety. KB and Kez took massive hits on the final lap and both could have easily been seriously injured, hence my point yesterday about these races being snoozer parades until someone almost (d word) on the final lap.
 

Snappy D

2017 Pick Em Champion 2018 Bold Predictor
Joined
Feb 13, 2017
Messages
9,672
Points
783
How is that supposed to work when it is win and your in?
I though the highest 16 drivers in points get in, but wins get preference. so if more drivers than him win more races and finish higher in points he gets in. I dont know anymore lol
 

donthaveanickname

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 6, 2016
Messages
6,824
Points
693
Location
Zwickau, Saxony (Germany)
I though the highest 16 drivers in points get in, but wins get preference. so if more drivers than him win more races and finish higher in points he gets in. I dont know anymore lol
McDowell only needs to finish Top 30 in the "regular season" now unless there are more than 16 winners in the first 26 races.
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
47,515
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
I don't think there will be 16 different drivers who will get a win to blow McDowell out of the water and McDowell finished 23rd in the standings last year. :idunno:
 

KodiakRusty89

Team Owner
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
2,723
Points
323
Opinion piece:

I love how popular the word "chaos" became over the weekend. Tons of Monday morning headlines are using it. I've been using it for a couple years now when it comes to plate/pack tracks. I think it's more appealing to the average consumer than "racing". Embrace the carnage!!

I posted this last night. I applaud NASCAR's transparency in terms of the product. Everything he said I've been posting on here all weekend regarding social media, the wrecks etc.

"It's chaos it's not racing. The drivers and broadcasters are straight up telling us that. That word is being used over and over now. No one is trying to hide what type of entertainment they're selling us."
 
Last edited:

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
47,515
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
yawn. This happens every plate race. Anybody that doesn't know that has been asleep the last 20 years. My advice would be wait until the second race of the season if you can't handle it for whatever reason.
 

gnomesayin

Team Owner
Joined
Oct 14, 2013
Messages
8,454
Points
793
My advice would be wait until the second race of the season if you can't handle it for whatever reason.

Yep, that's what I've been doing for most of those two decades. Has nothing to do with what I can and can't handle. However, there is a term for doing (watching) the same thing over and over and expecting different results. The only major difference I see over this timespan is the drivers' growing confidence that they will walk away no matter what they do.
 

KodiakRusty89

Team Owner
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
2,723
Points
323
yawn. This happens every plate race. Anybody that doesn't know that has been asleep the last 20 years. My advice would be wait until the second race of the season if you can't handle it for whatever reason.

It has not happened at every plate race the last 20 year;s, I can provide numerous examples of clean finishes. When there was still fear of injury pre COT is was less common. Talladega still has races that finish relatively clean from time to time. Daytona is definitely more of the "chaos" track and that's perfectly fine! Chaos is crazy and it sells! I'm all in on the carnage for 4 races a year. and I also accept the fact they themselves accept the risk of injury and death! The fact they're willing to be glorified racing gladiators is awesome!

I don't think for a second NASCAR is looking at Bristol as a race on dirt. They know full well it's going to be "chaos" on dirt. The actual racing is not important.
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
47,515
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
It has not happened at every plate race the last 20 year;s, I can provide numerous examples of clean finishes. When there was still fear of injury pre COT is was less common. Talladega still has races that finish relatively clean from time to time. Daytona is definitely more of the "chaos" track and that's perfectly fine! Chaos is crazy and it sells! I'm all in on the carnage for 4 races a year. and I also accept the fact they themselves accept the risk of injury and death! The fact they're willing to be glorified racing gladiators is awesome!

I don't think for a second NASCAR is looking at Bristol as a race on dirt. They know full well it's going to be "chaos" on dirt. The actual racing is not important.
Well excuse my "every". would "frequently" work for you? Not that I care that much.
 

gnomesayin

Team Owner
Joined
Oct 14, 2013
Messages
8,454
Points
793
I don't think for a second NASCAR is looking at Bristol as a race on dirt. They know full well it's going to be "chaos" on dirt. The actual racing is not important.

I don't agree. Yes, chaos is the point of the superspeedway races, and it's what they sell. Dirt Bristol was Marcus Smith's idea, and he was right about the Roval. His thing seems to be shaking up the status quo at his tracks. I have some skepticism about various aspects of the dirt event, but if they just wanted chaos, they'd take the two lower divisions there too. That would be chaos. At the Cup level, these guys will adapt quickly. The race may be compromised by track surface issues, but it won't be a **** show.
 

KodiakRusty89

Team Owner
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
2,723
Points
323
I don't agree. Yes, chaos is the point of the superspeedway races, and it's what they sell. Dirt Bristol was Marcus Smith's idea, and he was right about the Roval. His thing seems to be shaking up the status quo at his tracks. I have some skepticism about various aspects of the dirt event, but if they just wanted chaos, they'd take the two lower divisions there too. That would be chaos. At the Cup level, these guys will adapt quickly. The race may be compromised by track surface issues, but it won't be a **** show.

While I don't think ROVALS were created for straight up chaos there were definitely designed for more "beating and banging" and by default more wrecks WHILE providing a better tv/spectator setup (infrastructure in place) relative to a traditional road course. It has the feel of the old Mickey Thompson Stadium Series and I loved watching that.

I've watched the trucks at Eldora and it's like a Saturday night free for all at the local shorty; lots of cautions and craziness. I'm expecting Bristol to be even nuttier given the added variables Bristol and the randomness a "first off" event provides. I equate it to a science experiment, relatively speaking, come to life.
 

gnomesayin

Team Owner
Joined
Oct 14, 2013
Messages
8,454
Points
793

I guess that makes it pretty clear. My view is that the overall conditions have been ripe for chaos during that entire stretch, and it frequently occurred. There has been an acceleration, both generally and specifically at the very end of races, but I attribute this mostly to drivers' supreme confidence in their safety and belief that it is their job to take wild risks. Every trend in the structure of the series rewards it.

I just can't get there with the arguments that say "superspeedway racing is awesome, but only if they do it in this slightly different way." When it goes clean and green, the "boring" boos rain down. The nature of the beast is obvious.
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
47,515
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
I just finished the questionnaire about the race. My suggestions were to run the race wet or dry. It would take away some of the pack racing when wet. A race with both wet and dry would be even better. The most extreme example of that was the Xfinity Roval last year and they ran it during a cloud burst on both the infield twisties and the banked oval. The race went off as scheduled, ran it's course good or bad depending on the fan and on to the next one.
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
47,515
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
Pretty much proves what I and many others have been saying about Super Speedway racing and crashes. . Watching over and over expecting different results or thinking that this is some new phenomenon my advice would be to change your thinking or go do something else.
Daytona was built in 1959 and the largest crash in Nascar history was at Daytona in 1960, so crashes at super speedway races goes way back, farther than most of us have been Nascar fans
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
47,515
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
Nascar is the most diverse racing series in the world that I know of. It became more so this year with cups on dirt. It isn't new, been done before..many times but not recently. Some of the drivers have never raced on the dirt and same came from there. I believe that diversity in this area is a good deal, the guys that came up from dirt racing should have a bit of an advantage for the pavement guys to try to compete with. Likewise with the increased amount of road races. It might mean (already has) that a driver raised on road racing would because of the increasing chances decide to race in the Nascar series full or part time. It's all good from where I sit. I don't believe it is some B.S. conspiracy theory to cause more chaos on purpose for a minute.
 

jaqua19

Team Owner
Joined
Feb 17, 2015
Messages
4,929
Points
443
Location
Peabody, Massachusetts
Pretty much proves what I and many others have been saying about Super Speedway racing and crashes. . Watching over and over expecting different results or thinking that this is some new phenomenon my advice would be to change your thinking or go do something else.
Daytona was built in 1959 and the largest crash in Nascar history was at Daytona in 1960, so crashes at super speedway races goes way back, farther than most of us have been Nascar fans
Let's forget about pre restrictor plate racing...just off of the top of my head at Daytona and Talladega

88: Petty
91: DW
93: Rusty at BOTH daytona and Talladega
96: Earnhardt at Talladega
96: Ricky Craven at Talladega (this one was spectacular)
97: Dale
99: DL
2001: Dale (RIP), Smoke. Dales tragic passing makes the big one with 25 to go easy to forget. Stewart was injured from his flip there. Concussed and broken collar bone I think.
2003. Newman. Talladega and Daytona
2003: Elliot Sadler
2005: Riggs at Talladega
2009: Edwards
2012: KB Daytona
2017(?): Dillion at Daytona.

I'm gonna stop here. I hate hate seeing wrecks like this. I wish they didn't happen. It's always scary, even though 98% of the time the driver is okay.

That said, you're right. It's just the nature of superspeedway racing. It's nothing new.


Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

Nitro Dude

Hauler Driver and Cylinder Head Maintenance
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
9,791
Points
1,033
Location
Orange Ca
I just finished the questionnaire about the race. My suggestions were to run the race wet or dry. It would take away some of the pack racing when wet. A race with both wet and dry would be even better. The most extreme example of that was the Xfinity Roval last year and they ran it during a cloud burst on both the infield twisties and the banked oval. The race went off as scheduled, ran it's course good or bad depending on the fan and on to the next one.
I personally don't have a problem with rain tires... or waiting it out even if it takes a few days to get it in like Texas last year. But, if I remember right a lot of fans were whining and pissed off about how boring it was watching that Roval race until it finally dried up and they put their dry tires back on. But you may be right because with the attention span and lack of patience a lot of fans have now days it may be better to have a rain tire boring race instead of waiting for a possible dryer exciting race. So my stand on the subject is that I'm good with it either way.
 

KodiakRusty89

Team Owner
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
2,723
Points
323

Let's forget about pre restrictor plate racing...just off of the top of my head at Daytona and Talladega

88: Petty
91: DW
93: Rusty at BOTH daytona and Talladega
96: Earnhardt at Talladega
96: Ricky Craven at Talladega (this one was spectacular)
97: Dale
99: DL
2001: Dale (RIP), Smoke. Dales tragic passing makes the big one with 25 to go easy to forget. Stewart was injured from his flip there. Concussed and broken collar bone I think.
2003. Newman. Talladega and Daytona
2003: Elliot Sadler
2005: Riggs at Talladega
2009: Edwards
2012: KB Daytona
2017(?): Dillion at Daytona.

I'm gonna stop here. I hate hate seeing wrecks like this. I wish they didn't happen. It's always scary, even though 98% of the time the driver is okay.

That said, you're right. It's just the nature of superspeedway racing. It's nothing new.


Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Rusty nearly died at Bristol when he barrel rolled down the front straight then had those two nasty flips at Daytona (3 car incident) and Talladega (just him) in 1993. Dale Sr. bumped him at Talladega on the last lap which sent him flying past the start finish line. Sr. showed legit concern for Rusty's well being and stopped to make sure he was ok. Those flips combined with Bonnett's death at Daytona led Rusty to give his famous 1994 speech at Daytona regarding common sense and safety. Ernie Irvan had to apologize at a driver's meeting for causing big ones at Darlington (lapped car on restart), Talladega and Pocono (lapped car on restart).

I agree the "big one" has been a part of Daytona and Daytona fabric. However, the acceptance and willingness to wreck the last 10-15 laps is not something we use to see "normally". The willingness (and acceptance you did) to put someone in the wall is something that's fairly new within the culture of the sport. Definitely some amount of "Days of Thunder" mentality.
 
Last edited:

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
47,515
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
I personally don't have a problem with rain tires... or waiting it out even if it takes a few days to get it in like Texas last year. But, if I remember right a lot of fans were whining and pissed off about how boring it was watching that Roval race until it finally dried up and they put their dry tires back on. But you may be right because with the attention span and lack of patience a lot of fans have now days it may be better to have a rain tire boring race instead of waiting for a possible dryer exciting race. So my stand on the subject is that I'm good with it either way.
That's why I said depending on the fan. Some of them whine about every little thing like they have been elected as the chief critic. But they got both the Xfinity and the Cup races at the Roval pretty much on schedule. In fact there were some (probably the same ones) who were complaining about the Cup race that went from wet to dry racing as boring. It's best to not pay too much attention to either and Nascar does a great job of doing their own thing and not paying attention to the loudest criers.

Another factor is that I think Nascar could be more marketable for their up and coming contract renewals if they can be more stable in their assigned TV slot and the ability to run races in almost every kind of weather could help the heck out of that at contract time.
 

Nitro Dude

Hauler Driver and Cylinder Head Maintenance
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
9,791
Points
1,033
Location
Orange Ca
yeah, it looks like he was fine, threw both of the gloves, thought about it for a bit and said what the hell and threw the fancy helmet down and stomped off. Funny if you aren't the one it is happening to.Wh

That's why I said depending on the fan. Some of them whine about every little thing like they have been elected as the chief critic. But they got both the Xfinity and the Cup races at the Roval pretty much on schedule. In fact there were some (probably the same ones) who were complaining about the Cup race that went from wet to dry racing as boring. It's best to not pay too much attention to either and Nascar does a great job of doing their own thing and not paying attention to the loudest criers.

Another factor is that I think Nascar could be more marketable for their up and coming contract renewals if they can be more stable in their assigned TV slot and the ability to run races in almost every kind of weather could help the heck out of that at contract time.
I absolutely agree with that and one of the main reasons I'm good with either way NASCAR does it.
 

FLRacingFan

Team Owner
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
26,774
Points
883
Location
Florida
I guess that makes it pretty clear. My view is that the overall conditions have been ripe for chaos during that entire stretch, and it frequently occurred. There has been an acceleration, both generally and specifically at the very end of races, but I attribute this mostly to drivers' supreme confidence in their safety and belief that it is their job to take wild risks. Every trend in the structure of the series rewards it.

I just can't get there with the arguments that say "superspeedway racing is awesome, but only if they do it in this slightly different way." When it goes clean and green, the "boring" boos rain down. The nature of the beast is obvious.
They raced wheel-to-wheel for maybe 25-30 laps over the course of the day yesterday and still wrecked most of the field when they did. I think with the current package they can pack up and make moves really well when they want to but that also leads to easy contact. So they save all of that for stage finishes and the race finish and spend the rest of it half-throttling in a single line. This is different from a package like 2013 where they did so simply because the cars couldn’t draft and pass as well.

Crashes will happen no matter what in superspeedway packs but I think they occur in a more accelerated manner now, and the leader pretty much being a shoe-in to be turned on the last lap each year is a fairly recent development too.
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
47,515
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
Got the bling ring..check, got the Rolex..check...got the bad ass trophy for the Daytona 500 winner..That's ME :punkrocke
 

28car

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 5, 2016
Messages
282
Points
143
I personally don't have a problem with rain tires... or waiting it out even if it takes a few days to get it in like Texas last year. But, if I remember right a lot of fans were whining and pissed off about how boring it was watching that Roval race until it finally dried up and they put their dry tires back on. But you may be right because with the attention span and lack of patience a lot of fans have now days it may be better to have a rain tire boring race instead of waiting for a possible dryer exciting race. So my stand on the subject is that I'm good with it either way.
I say put the rain tires on (cars will need the wipers and what ever else is needed) then go race, you go too fast you’ll spin and wreck, just because you can go 200 mph doesn’t mean you need too. Do what it takes to finish
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
47,515
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
I say put the rain tires on (cars will need the wipers and what ever else is needed) then go race, you go too fast you’ll spin and wreck, just because you can go 200 mph doesn’t mean you need too. Do what it takes to finish
Takes more skill to do that in many cases more skill than holding it to the floor wide open.
 

Kiante

Team Owner
Joined
Sep 6, 2013
Messages
17,656
Points
883
Location
Florida
Takes more skill to do that in many cases more skill than holding it to the floor wide open.
Judging by the amount of loose cars, like C. Bell saving it at 180 mph after getting some air taken off his spoiler. Bubba and Denny had their moments as well, along with others.

These cars are anything, but easy to drive. Not to mention, the holding it to the floor only lasts a few laps. You'll see a lot of brake dragging and throttle management... It was actually pretty significant last night, just imagine how it will be in the heat of August.
 

RT1981

Jackman
Joined
Aug 2, 2020
Messages
49
Points
18
Rusty nearly died at Bristol when he barrel rolled down the front straight then had those two nasty flips at Daytona (3 car incident) and Talladega (just him) in 1993. Dale Sr. bumped him at Talladega on the last lap which sent him flying past the start finish line. Sr. showed legit concern for Rusty's well being and stopped to make sure he was ok. Those flips combined with Bonnett's death at Daytona led Rusty to give his famous 1994 speech at Daytona regarding common sense and safety. Ernie Irvan had to apologize at a driver's meeting for causing big ones at Darlington (lapped car on restart), Talladega and Pocono (lapped car on restart).

I agree the "big one" has been a part of Daytona and Daytona fabric. However, the acceptance and willingness to wreck the last 10-15 laps is not something we use to see "normally". The willingness (and acceptance you did) to put someone in the wall is something that's fairly new within the culture of the sport. Definitely some amount of "Days of Thunder" mentality.
I think drivers of today feel too safe now with all the safety features which is why they don't care when the they do agresive driving on the superspeedways like daytona and talladega.
 
Top Bottom