daytona carnage count?

Privateer

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There has always been the chance for the big one or a nasty wreck at Daytona or Talladega. What has bothered me in recent years is the indifference to wrecking and the acceptance of it. The reality is most of these recent wrecks are caused by idiotic decisions. They could have raced like this 20-30 years ago but they opted not to for fear and respect. When people got out of line speeches were made or punches were thrown. I'm hoping tonight was a wake up call for better decision making which will lead to better racing.

It won't. Nothing is going to change until a driver or fans die. It is not a question of if, it is a question of when. And when that happens NASCAR will try something like hold up a frayed belt to pass blame off to the top safety supplier.

The cause of Newman's crash last night was easy to see. He was driving with his rear view mirror and Blaney just plowed through him, typical for restrictor plate racing and restrictor plate crashes. There's no desire to change the cause.

What race was it last year where Larson almost flew at speed into the infield?
 

JerryF

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In 2018, there were 36,560 highway deaths in the USA. That's a little over 100 per day! Now that's something that needs a lot of attention. Us race fans should be thinking about what can be done to minimize these accidents, and most of us do.

There's some form of blocking in most sports, and in this case, it was a major factor in how the accident developed. Those three drivers were doing what they had to do to try to win, and if they didn't race that way, they wouldn't have jobs (as race drivers.) So do we ban blocking, crossover moves, side drafting, bump drafting, etc? If the cars were spaced apart more, would inevitable collisions be less violent? Do cars get "sucked in" more by safer barriers when his at an angle causing more flips? Lots to think about.

I'm sure there will be a lost of interesting perspectives on RaceHub, Nascar America, and other racing shows in the following days.
 

Formerjackman

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I don't understand the hatred for superspeedway racing. Wrecks are going to happen but this race was largely clean right up until the end. Guaranteed Nascar could put a stop to pack racing and the same people would complain to the ends of the earth. What exactly is it that you haters are looking for on the superspeedways?

Well, I'll take up the mantle of hater, because I have grown to DISPISE plate "racing", if you can call it that. It's mostly 480 miles of sheer boredom followed by 20 miles of pure insanity that destroys millions of dollars with of equipment and offers us a survivor more than a winner. What I am looking for is something I know will never happen, but since you asked, I'll tell you. Either changed both racetracks or take them off the schedule. THAT is what I want. I derive ZERO pleasure or joy watching the events there and wouldn't miss them for ONE SINGLE SECOND. The fact that the grandstands are packed full tells me that that either a LOT of people have a strange definition of what racing is, or simply that the racing has gotten so bad everywhere else that people flock to Daytona and Talladega for some semblance of close competition. I'm quite sure I'll be roundly criticized for these comments, but I'm sorry, that's the way I feel. I don't understand this "product", and I don't understand people who DO like it.
 

Privateer

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I don't understand the hatred for superspeedway racing. Wrecks are going to happen but this race was largely clean right up until the end. Guaranteed Nascar could put a stop to pack racing and the same people would complain to the ends of the earth. What exactly is it that you haters are looking for on the superspeedways?

From my Unofficial Rules of Auto Racing:

33. Daytona and Talladega are big cluster****s of races that require the least driver talent to win at on the circuit. (See Michael Waltrip, Derrike Cope, Trevor Bayne, Bobby Hillin Jr., Jimmy Spencer, David Ragan, Greg Sacks, Justin Haley, and Phil Parsons.)
34. 10 of Dale Earnhardt Jr.’s 26 career wins were at Daytona and Talladega.
35. Restrictor plates were brought in to stop cars from jumping the fence at Daytona or Talladega, going into the crowd, and NASCAR being sued out of existence from all the aggrieved family members. Restrictor plates now exist to tighten everyone up and create big crashes…which is the most likely future cause of aggrieved family members attempting to sue NASCAR out of existence.

I gave up on Daytona and Talladega being real races the day a young Brad Keselowski sent Carl Edwards airborne into the catch fence and toward the crowd at the finish, and NASCAR stated that was good because Keselowski did not go beneath the double yellow line.
 

KodiakRusty89

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Do you really think people would tune in to see a single file parade with a car length between them OR did they tune in to see two and three wide racing with pushing and shoving, shooting the gap and driving on the ragged edge with it all hanging out at 200 MPH plus? Man I don't know what to tell ya. It's a fairy tale that ain't going to happen and hardly anybody I know wants to see that, they start screaming choo choo after a lap or two of that.

Absolutely! History shows they will! Go watch some older races! Drivers were on the ragged edge 200+ miles per hour, sling shotting, etc and did without constantly wrecking! Crowds and tv ratings were better too.
 

StandOnIt

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Absolutely! History shows they will! Go watch some older races! Drivers were on the ragged edge 200+ miles per hour, sling shotting, etc and did without constantly wrecking! Crowds and tv ratings were better too.
History my ass. Sell that B.S. to somebody else. Good luck with your fairy tale maybe the grass was greener also.
 

KodiakRusty89

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History my ass. Sell that B.S. to somebody else. Good luck with your fairy tale maybe the grass was greener also.

Why do you come across so bitter sometimes?

Drivers can clearly race cleanly, intelligently for 180 laps. Their failure to execute the last 20 or so is embarrassing.
 

StandOnIt

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Why do you come across so bitter sometimes?

Drivers can clearly race cleanly, intelligently for 180 laps. Their failure to execute the last 20 or so is embarrassing.

I wasn't the one who was calling the drivers untalented idiots during the race
 

KodiakRusty89

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and your an expert on making decisions at 200 + MPH, got it.

They were spinning out/wrecking taking a restart! That's US Grand Prix at Michigan stuff. There was clearly some ugly moments last night. People don't have to drive 200 mph too see that. Just like someone doesn't have play NFL football to know when a QB made a bad decision that results in a costly int. Most of us on here have watched this sport at a high level. We know racing despite not participating. I consider fans like us as the 5%ers.
 

StandOnIt

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They were spinning out/wrecking taking a restart! That's US Grand Prix at Michigan stuff. There was clearly some ugly moments last night. People don't have to drive 200 mph too see that. Just like someone doesn't have play NFL football to know when a QB made a bad decision that results in a costly int. Most of us on here have watched this sport at a high level. We know racing despite not participating. I consider fans like us as the 5%ers.

They have spun out wrecking on restarts on any track for years, they have had horrendous wrecks at all of the tracks blah blah blah. Next time you are on the highway, run up on a semi until your bumper is about two feet from his DOT bumper and imagine you have another car 2 feet behind and another car door slamming you on the side and of course one on your left door, and go make some decisions will ya. Maybe even at highway speeds you will figure out how hard it is oh knower of racing.
 

Formerjackman

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As much as I think certain drivers are making the situation even worse than it is (Joey Logano, Ricky Stenhouse looking RIGHT at you) the problem is that we are putting drivers in an almost impossible position in the endless pursuit of some twisted definition of "racing" and then we get all upset when this stuff happens. If I had MY way, I would remove the drivers from the circumstances that force them to make these poor decisions, but as long as the grandstands are filled, I fully realize that that that is not going happen. The situation now is the same as the safety situation was in the late 90's. Say all the right things, take some relatively meaningless actions and then sit back and PRAY that something doesn't happen that FORCES NASCAR to get serious. As long as we are willing to reward lunacy, there will be plenty of takers. It's the nature of the business.
 

Brentford

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Winning this race is something all drivers dream of and they will unfortunately do anything to do that. The thought of someone getting seriously hurt doesn't even cross their mind on the final lap. The guy in the lead will throw block after block to keep everyone behind him and the guy in 2nd will willingly drive right through someone to make the pass and take the win. On that final lap, they drive as if it will be their final chance to get the trophy and that's a recipe for disaster. It probably doesn't make much sense for me to speak for them while I am sitting on my couch, but the drivers need to have more sense and realize that if they don't win, there is always next year. And even if it's their final year, is the trophy really worth your life or the life of your competitors?
 

Formerjackman

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What's the solution? Put shock collars on them?

I am SORT OF joking, but how about a big rev limiter mounted to the front bumpers. You bump draft someone, and you lose about 500 RPM.. That would make drivers think twice...... :eek:
 

StandOnIt

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I am SORT OF joking, but how about a big rev limiter mounted to the front bumpers. You bump draft someone, and you lose about 500 RPM.. That would make drivers think twice...... :eek:
oh heck yeah, shock the cars instead. brilliant. I would be wanting sparks or smoke, something when it happens.:p
 

Hotrod

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as seen leaving the Daytona Speedway infield :

2385438_f255048b0a_z.jpg
 

Hotrod

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What's the solution? Put shock collars on them?
One idea I had after the 2015 Austin Dillon crash was put the start finish line
in the middle of the back straight.
I called Chocolate on his show and ran it by him
and he thought that was a little to out of the box. Bad things happens in the tri oval and
there have been too many close calls with the stands.
 

BobbyFord

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One idea I had after the 2015 Austin Dillon crash was put the start finish line
in the middle of the back straight.
I called Chocolate on his show and ran it by him
and he thought that was a little to out of the box. Bad things happens in the tri oval and
there have been too many close calls with the stands.
It’s plate racing. Fans tune in to watch the big one. Sells beer and burgers.
 

LouieLouie

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Did anyone actually do a full tally of cars that were destroyed? I was thinking the total cost was over $10 mil based on Mike Waltrips comment of 250k per car. I'm sure xfinity and trucks are less, so maybe $175k and $100k for the xfinity and trucks.

I'll see if I can dig this up later.
 

Ventisca

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Did anyone actually do a full tally of cars that were destroyed? I was thinking the total cost was over $10 mil based on Mike Waltrips comment of 250k per car. I'm sure xfinity and trucks are less, so maybe $175k and $100k for the xfinity and trucks.

I'll see if I can dig this up later.

I don't know how all the accounting is going to be done this year, but listening to PRN (because I no longer get Sat Radio) -- the current cars are no good for the 2021 Season. And I don't know about the the Daytona/Talladega cars being distinguished for the wrecker or if salvageable for some other purpose after this year. So...??? :idunno:
 

Formerjackman

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It's like watching Grumpy Old Men -- kinda grows on you. I guess some of the R-F Grouches are grandfathered in...

One of the first things I learned here was there is kind of a two tiered standard here. You either deal with or move on.
 

Zerkfitting

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I wonder how many wrecked race cars the teams will tolerate before they skip some of the big tracks. That's what happened to many of the short tracks when teams had smaller budgets.
 

Formerjackman

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I wonder how many wrecked race cars the teams will tolerate before they skip some of the big tracks. That's what happened to many of the short tracks when teams had smaller budgets.

The problem is, if you skip races, you aren't going to be eligible to make the playoffs. I think the main reason teams skipped the short track races back in the day was more about the lousy purses at those races. NASCAR plan money was devised as a carrot to get teams to show up for ALL the races. If I were a team owner and they offered me 25th place points and I just could stay home, I would take that offer every day, but obviously between the box NASCAR puts you in, never mind the sponsors, that is NEVER going to happen.
 

LARRY

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At 200 mph the only condition a car in heavy traffic doesn’t exhibit is stability.
That's it! It has been suggested for 30 years but still.... Just knock it down to 15 degrees at one end.
Let them break down to about 160 and then they have a run To the other end. That might not be enough but it should separate the cars.
To try to answer ... dramatically reduce the track’s banking angles. That’s all I’ve got.
 
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