Daytona: wrecking isn't racing

StandOnIt said:
I wouldn't watch if ya can't handle it would be my advice. All I see is some 20 year old resentment whine and you have no solutions.
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Boo the fans who desire to preserve the longevity of their favorite athletes.

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jws926 said:
I havent see the full ratings for the 500 yet, but here are numbers per each hour during primetime
19:00 FOX Nascar 0.6 3.137
20:00 FOX Nascar 0.5 2.619
21:00 FOX Nascar 0.7 3.727

The Clash had 1.577 million viewers, down from 2.455 million/last year
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That's absolutely awful
 
StandOnIt said:
Nascar makes the track and cars safer every year. and Had is the key word above. All of motorsports are making cars and tracks safer, but they aren't going to wrap all of them in cotton wool to suit a few No Nellies.
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I'm all in on always trying to improve safety for the drivers and fans and the racing it's self and hate to see this many wrecked race cars, but anyone that doesn't think the Daytona 500 isn't still the number 1 race in these drivers hearts are not watching the drivers very close. Just look how excited every winner is after they cross that finish line first, and look how upset Brad was after he crashed and didn't cross the finish line first. He wasn't upset because he just tore up his race car, or that he was just in a very scary wreck...he was upset because he was so close to winning the Daytona 500 but he came up short again and didn't win his first Daytona 500 that he has tried so hard to win for so many years. I don't know what the answer is for a better and safer race...but I do feel I'm obligated as a long time die hard NASCAR fan to support these drivers that want to win this race so bad by watching them do what they love to do...and that is trying to win the number 1 most important race in their lives...THE DAYTONA 500.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Daytonadega, my favorite race four times each season. Y'all keep on fixing them. In the meantime we'll keep on watching them.
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I love this post. Just the fact that some want to “fix” the Daytona 500 and “fix” the palace that is the Daytona International Speedway. I don’t get it. You want to take the arguably at best the most famous race in the United States and run it on a road course? For what reason?
Safety? These cars are safe, I can’t guarantee someone won’t die in these cars again, but I applaud the sport and trust the sport for making gains on safety and continuing to be safe. I saw on the E60 Earnhardt documentary that NASCAR has the R&D center that is striving to make the cars as safe as possible. I would say NASCAR is at the forefront of this continuous quest.
Your attention span? That’s too bad your attention span can’t last 500 miles, find something else to watch or watch the highlights when the race is over. I find the Daytona 500 to be a great spectacle as well I commend the drivers for staring in the face of danger every lap, that is incredible bravery. The speed of the cars on the plate tracks is also an absolute treat to see in person and hear on tv. I don’t get the need to change that.
I hope we always have Daytona and Dega on the schedule. 4 plate races each year is fine. To actually gripe about the Daytona 500 is asinine to me. I guess we should just put everything on Rovals and road courses, those will save the day, until this fan base inevitably turns on this fad...and they will. However if you want to talk about the actual quality of product on plate tracks that’s a discussion I’ll have. Seems the current strategy is to ride around and wait for 2 to go which causes massive mayhem with everyone trying to make their move at once. I agree that needs some tweaking. I don’t know how to do that, Iam not educated enough on the workings of speed, car snd air. However it seems like an extreme measure to get rid of the plate tracks all together.... that’s a hard pass for me. Keep em.
 
Snappy D said:
I love this post. Just the fact that some want to “fix” the Daytona 500 and “fix” the palace that is the Daytona International Speedway. I don’t get it. You want to take the arguably at best the most famous race in the United States and run it on a road course? For what reason?
Safety? These cars are safe, I can’t guarantee someone won’t die in these cars again, but I applaud the sport and trust the sport for making gains on safety and continuing to be safe. I saw on the E60 Earnhardt documentary that NASCAR has the R&D center that is striving to make the cars as safe as possible. I would say NASCAR is at the forefront of this continuous quest.
Your attention span? That’s too bad your attention span can’t last 500 miles, find something else to watch or watch the highlights when the race is over. I find the Daytona 500 to be a great spectacle as well I commend the drivers for staring in the face of danger every lap, that is incredible bravery. The speed of the cars on the plate tracks is also an absolute treat to see in person and hear on tv. I don’t get the need to change that.
I hope we always have Daytona and Dega on the schedule. 4 plate races each year is fine. To actually gripe about the Daytona 500 is asinine to me. I guess we should just put everything on Rovals and road courses, those will save the day, until this fan base inevitably turns on this fad...and they will. However if you want to talk about the actual quality of product on plate tracks that’s a discussion I’ll have. Seems the current strategy is to ride around and wait for 2 to go which causes massive mayhem with everyone trying to make their move at once. I agree that needs some tweaking. I don’t know how to do that, Iam not educated enough on the workings of speed, car snd air. However it seems like an extreme measure to get rid of the plate tracks all together.... that’s a hard pass for me. Keep em.
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I'm not talking about everyone because I think safety concern is on just about everyone's mind on any track that NASCAR races on, but I also think there is another self motivated motive for some when it comes to the super speedways. The ones that seem to yell the loudest just about every year loves road courses and short tracks and has admitted they want to see them replace the super speedways. I don't ever see it happening though.
 
I might have actually watched 50 laps total with sound on. Spent most of my time scrolling thru Internetz. Find Internetz much more interesting. Used to have pulse rate go up lap 15 or so laps. Would be sitting on edge of chair. Now I wonder; will they kill anyone this year? Are you NOT entertained?
 
Nitro Dude said:
I'm not talking about everyone because I think safety concern is on just about everyone's mind on any track that NASCAR races on, but I also think there is another self motivated motive for some when it comes to the super speedways. The ones that seem to yell the loudest just about every year loves road courses and short tracks and has admitted they want to see them replace the super speedways. I don't ever see it happening.
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When they finally get a car in the stands it will come to a stop. WE live in much more litigious times than when it happened before (IndyCar @ Charoltte). It's inevitable.
 
KTMLew01 said:
When they finally get a car in the stands it will come to a stop. WE live in much more litigious times than when it happened before (IndyCar @ Charoltte). It's inevitable.
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I don't even think something that catastrophic would stop them. It might force them to make even more drastic changes to the cars and the catch fences but as long as there is NASCAR I think there will be a Daytona 500. But, lets hope we don't ever have to find out.
 
KTMLew01 said:
When they finally get a car in the stands it will come to a stop. WE live in much more litigious times than when it happened before (IndyCar @ Charoltte). It's inevitable.
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Hasn't come to a stop yet when pieces came off of Larson's car and injured some fans. Doubt it ever will. Many people come to the track to hear and feel the roar and sense the danger of 180MPH plus or watch on TV. Some don't get it and probably never will. :idunno:
 
NHRA had a close call in NC when one of John Forces drivers had an explosion that blew a body into the crowd. Luckily there were only minor injuries. But that incident brought on a lot of testing and changes in the rule book on body mounting. Things like different style burst panels on the blower manifold so that the pressure went down instead of up when there was a blower explosion. We already had to run burst panels in the hood of the bodies but we started testing burst panels in the sides of the bodies. We changed to double and different style latching systems on front and back with cables that would tether the front half and back half and keep the body attached to the car...that brought on more problems because then the front would blow apart right in front of the windshield and cover up the drivers view at 330 mph. The bottom line is teams do everything they can to have safe race cars but sometimes things can happen...but anytime it does teams always learn from it and try to keep it from happening again. No one wants to see anyone injured or killed while doing the things they love to do or while watching the sport they love.
Robert Height Blow Up... Body lands in Stands - YouTube
 
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Nitro Dude said:
NHRA had a close call in NC when one of John Forces drivers had an explosion that blew a body into the crowd. Luckily there were only minor injuries. But that incident brought on a lot of testing and changes in the rule book on body mounting. Things like different style burst panels on the blower manifold so that the pressure went down instead of up when there was a blower explosion. We already had to run burst panels in the hood of the bodies but we started testing burst panels in the sides of the bodies. We changed to double and different style latching systems on front and back with cables that would tether the front half and back half and keep the body attached to the car...that brought on more problems because then the front would blow apart right in front of the windshield and cover up the drivers view at 330 mph. The bottom line is teams do everything they can to have safe race cars but sometimes things happen...but anytime it does teams always learn from it and try to keep it from happening again. No one wants to see anyone injured or killed while doing the things they love to do or while watching the sport they love.
Robert Height Blow Up... Body lands in Stands - YouTube
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Yeah I believe alterations were made after Newman's and Lajoie's wreck. I think another bar was added at the top of the roof and more work on the foot wells.
 
StandOnIt said:
Yeah I believe alterations were made after Newman's and Lajoie's wreck. I think another bar was added at the top of the roof and more work on the foot wells.
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I think I remember hearing that they added another bar in Newman's car. I imagine that NASCAR is probably even stricter then NHRA when it comes to their safety dept. But with NHRA anytime there is an accident they impound the car and go over it with a fine tooth comb to see if everything was in order and to see if anything didn't do what it was designed to do safety wise.
 
I wonder if catch fences are sufficiently over-engineered at tracks around the circuit?
 
Nitro Dude said:
I think I remember hearing that they added another bar in Newman's car. I imagine that NASCAR is probably even stricter then NHRA when it comes to their safety dept. But with NHRA anytime there is an accident they impound the car and go over it with a fine tooth comb to see if everything was in order and to see if anything didn't do what it was designed to do safety wise.
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yeah Nascar does the same thing. When Kyle crashed head on into a concrete wall and broke both of his legs they redid the foot wells and added some bars in the front end. I think they have redone the footwells a couple of times since then. The cars keep getting safer. It's going to be interesting to see how the new car will do. 3400 pounds is a tank.
 
"Racing is inherently dangerous" but there's no reason there can't be continued effort to minimize that risk.

I'll float this idea out there, if NASCAR began to penalize bad blocks that might make the driver's think twice about throwing them? Thus resulting in less wrecks?
 
Turtle84 said:
"Racing is inherently dangerous" but there's no reason there can't be continued effort to minimize that risk.

I'll float this idea out there, if NASCAR began to penalize bad blocks that might make the driver's think twice about throwing them? Thus resulting in less wrecks?
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I would like to see min. speed at qualifying to shorten the field before the race even starts. After that, every car that goes a lap down is out of the race ( not counting those caught in the pits).
 
Team Penske said:
I would like to see min. speed at qualifying to shorten the field before the race even starts. After that, every car that goes a lap down is out of the race ( not counting those caught in the pits).
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I'm onboard with the min. qualifying speed, Cope adventure was a disaster waiting to happen.
 
Turtle84 said:
"Racing is inherently dangerous" but there's no reason there can't be continued effort to minimize that risk.

I'll float this idea out there, if NASCAR began to penalize bad blocks that might make the driver's think twice about throwing them? Thus resulting in less wrecks?
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I dont think it’s even bad blocks. Austin Dillon wasnt a bad block. Kyle Larson wasnt a bad block. Ryan Newman wasn’t a bad block. Even last weekend wasn’t really a bad block. These cars just don’t react well if they arent pushed exactly center. What needs to be limited is how bunched up these cars can get on superspeedways. I went back and watched races from the early 2000s when I remember it being more exciting, and there is pack racing but the field is a bit more spread out. They arent exactly nose to tail all the way around the track.

These shots are from the 2003 bud shootout. That race was fantastic.


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ChexOrWrex said:
I dont think it’s even bad blocks. Austin Dillon wasnt a bad block. Kyle Larson wasnt a bad block. Ryan Newman wasn’t a bad block. Even last weekend wasn’t really a bad block. These cars just don’t react well if they arent pushed exactly center. What needs to be limited is how bunched up these cars can get on superspeedways. I went back and watched races from the early 2000s when I remember it being more exciting, and there is pack racing but the field is a bit more spread out. They arent exactly nose to tail all the way around the track.

These shots are from the 2003 bud shootout. That race was fantastic.


EQS-fl-VUAAEvak.jpg


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Yeah think you're onto something there with the spacing, too much drag now. Maybe NextGen car will be more squared up as far as skew goes.
 
Drivers have a wheel, a brake and more importantly a gas pedal. When KDB hit C.Bell so hard Bell turned the leader Almirola sideways and that WAS a bad block/shove. There was no need for it, purely driver error. After that they rode around keeping their distance until the last lap As the statistics show, there has been almost every race for years and years that have large numbers of cars involved in wrecks.
 
It does not matter what RACE Track you are at, it is an inherently thrilling dangerous sport. We have seen tragedy at almost all venues, it is the nature of the beast. JMHO
 
Turtle84 said:
"Racing is inherently dangerous" but there's no reason there can't be continued effort to minimize that risk.

I'll float this idea out there, if NASCAR began to penalize bad blocks that might make the driver's think twice about throwing them? Thus resulting in less wrecks?
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More subjectivity for NASCAR to take on isn’t a good thing IMO, and I think blocks have been mostly self-policing. I think the biggest thing recently have been the huge runs they get with the superspeedway spoiler they’ve been running. The two biggest accidents all day were caused by two big pushes; Almirola got out of control suddenly and the more I look at it the more it seems Brad was losing it before he actually got to Joey. Things happen fast.

The new car seems very different in most aspects so I suspect it’ll change the game significantly, just not sure how.
 
It is time for the SuperRover Supspeedway roll out. This would be unlike the circuit for the Rolex24 or this weekends race.
The SuperRovel speedway circuit would have the competitors running the classic 2 5 mile nascar track on the odd laps, and then running the approx 3.5 mile road course circuit on the even numbered laps.

The two combined trips around the track would then equal a SuperRovel lap that would be about 6 to 6.5 miles long. If they could get it to 6.66 miles they could market it as the beast and give Letarte and Jeff Burton enough zap to make you a believer.
There would also be the drama of driver remembering if they were running an even or odd numbered sublap.

The blend lines would help introduce safe driving courtesy and the ability to use turn signals, yield the right of way etiquette and so forth....
 
Team Penske said:
I would like to see min. speed at qualifying to shorten the field before the race even starts. After that, every car that goes a lap down is out of the race ( not counting those caught in the pits).
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So if someone cuts down a tire and loses a lap they are done? No thanks
 
sdj said:
I have said this before and will say it again:

There is nothing quite like sitting in the stands at Daytona and when they drop the Green Flag and 40 finely tuned 700+ horse power naturally aspirated V-8 Engine powered HOTRODS, come to full song in a pack going into Turn 3 and the unbelievable sound rolls back across the track and makes the hair on your arms stand up and you get a lump in your throat, there is nothing on Earth I have ever heard to equal that, pure music.

The next best thing is when a tight pack of 40 Hotrods comes by in from of you at over 200MPH, if that don't light your ass up, well, you need to go home.

I am all for the 4 Super Speedway Races we have per year. I hate when they wreck, but, this ain't Sunday school we are talking about either, so pull up your big boy pants and enjoy.
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If anyone has not experienced Daytona or Talladega in person they are truly missing out

At Daytona walk next to the wall at the point of the tri-oval on turn 4 side, cars go past you 6 feet away at 190+
 
StandOnIt said:
Drivers have a wheel, a brake and more importantly a gas pedal. When KDB hit C.Bell so hard Bell turned the leader Almirola sideways and that WAS a bad block/shove. There was no need for it, purely driver error. After that they rode around keeping their distance until the last lap As the statistics show, there has been almost every race for years and years that have large numbers of cars involved in wrecks.
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I'd have the put that one on CBell bump drafting too hard too early hit Almirola twice and that's entirely controllable on his end, yeah KDB pushed him up there but he also released him, in Bell's hands at that point like you said he has a brake and gas pedal, preventable. Why they were pushing so hard 15 laps into the a 500 mile race, beyond me, smart move by Hamlin to drop back. I think a driver's meeting would be beneficial on some of this stuff.
 
Turtle84 said:
I'd have the put that one on CBell bump drafting too hard too early hit Almirola twice and that's entirely controllable on his end, yeah KDB pushed him up there but he also released him, in Bell's hands at that point like you said he has a brake and gas pedal, preventable. Why they were pushing so hard 15 laps into the a 500 mile race, beyond me, smart move by Hamlin to drop back. I think a driver's meeting would be beneficial on some of this stuff.
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Personally I don't think it was a teammate type of move. I thought that when I watched it and I thought what the hell is KDB doing? Reminded me of the crap they used to pull with Logano when he was new.
 
FLRacingFan said:
More subjectivity for NASCAR to take on isn’t a good thing IMO, and I think blocks have been mostly self-policing. I think the biggest thing recently have been the huge runs they get with the superspeedway spoiler they’ve been running. The two biggest accidents all day were caused by two big pushes; Almirola got out of control suddenly and the more I look at it the more it seems Brad was losing it before he actually got to Joey. Things happen fast.

The new car seems very different in most aspects so I suspect it’ll change the game significantly, just not sure how.
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The closing rate with this spoiler seems immense, and like Chex said if they don't hit push dead center it ends up with someone going around. Shape of the nose possibly too. Hard to judge on the Brad/Joey, for sure Joey was going to throw an aggressive block no matter what the closing rate (that's where I think maybe having a penalty in place to discourage). But yeah I'd rather not have NASCAR making those calls either.

Hope NASCAR does plenty of testing on new car to make adjustments in that area, as far as spacing in the draft and taking a bump.
 
StandOnIt said:
Personally I don't think it was a teammate type of move. I thought that when I watched it and I thought what the hell is KDB doing? Reminded me of the crap they used to pull with Logano when he was new.
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F--- 'teammate types of moves', and the manufacturer's horse they rode in on. A move isn't better or worse when a teammate is involved vs. a non-teammate.
 
StandOnIt said:
that's what it is and it goes on for the whole season imagine that. Don't pass him Jones
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Oh, I know they happen; f--- 'em anyway. It's only at the pack races where drivers are expected and pressured to cooperate with cars not only from the same owner but from the same manufacturer, even if a particular Chevy driver spend 180 laps learning he has a better chance of a good finish working with a particular Ford or Toyota driver.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Oh, I know they happen; f--- 'em anyway. It's only at the pack races where drivers are expected and pressured to cooperate with cars not only from the same owner but from the same manufacturer, even if a particular Chevy driver spend 180 laps learning he has a better chance of a good finish working with a particular Ford or Toyota driver.
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Brought up a good point. How many times do we see wrecks happening when one brand is rooting the other out of the line. It's vicious sometimes. I find it interesting because there isn't any way Nascar can keep it from happening and in it's own strange way it might make a certain car numbers light manufacturer to increase their numbers.
 
sdj said:
On a positive note, isn't it amazing those V-8's can stay together lap after lap at over 7500 continuous RPM, amazing to me, what stellar engineering. Hats off to the engine builders in Nascar, they are wizards. :booya:
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Maybe I'm misremembering but I recall reading continuous RPM weren't as hard on an engine as cyclically accelerating and decelerating. If that is indeed the case, engine builders still deserve applause, but more for 600 miles at Charlotte.

Either way, DNFs from engine failure are almost a thing of the past. I don't miss them.
 
StandOnIt said:
The only thing I read that made sense was more paving of the infield. They have done it at other tracks, it's tried and trued to work. They would have had many more cars in the race left when the last flag flew. Nascar is always improving so I wouldn't be surprised to see them pave more of Daytona.
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It would make sense to replace the grass in the trioval at Daytona and Talladega with astroturf.
Apart from that, most of the infield is already paved so I don't think much can be improved there.

Charlie Spencer said:
If that is indeed the case, engine builders still deserve applause, but more for 600 miles at Charlotte.
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Not much off-throttle time there either.
 
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