Discontent with Nascar

Nascar used to be called stock car racing.It reminds me now of what IROC racing series used to be.I saw where Farmers Insurance is pulling out of Nascar after next year.It is hard to justify millions sponsors are paying for declining TV viewers and attendance.When Jr. calls it quits,it will be like that guy on Monday night football game used to say " turn out the lights the party's over".
 
Other than number one, NASCAR has had full control of the issues.
1. Drivers dying prematurely, or retiring, before their fans found a replacement driver to root for.
2. Constant changes to their championship. No other sport in history has had this many drastic changes, in this short amount of time.
3. The cars suck. Indy car has push to pass, which has improved the competition. NASCAR has one to three teams that finds the right combinations and won't lose the lead once they reach the front.
4. The cookie cutter tracks
5. The cookie cutter cars
6. The cookie cutter drivers
7. The commercials. Even mrn has become a chore to listen to when in the boat.
 
timmyholton said:
I've been a NASCAR fan for over 35 years.

Rusty Wallace was my all time favorite and I liked guys like Davey Allison, Ricky Rudd, never was a Earnhardt fan but respected him

Had a group of friends and we'd hit up a few races a year (Michigan mostly, chicago land few times, ORP for busch series)

For daytona we'd get a pool going drawing numbers placing money

Every Labor day weekend we'd get together for darlington and cookout, same for coca cola 600(which was a long day with indy)

Past few years my buddies have drifted off from nascar "Nah timmy i'm just not interested in anymore"

I kept going though I hated the changes though

I think this year has done it though. I honestly have only watched 3-4 races in full. I usually just dvr now and fast forward to last 40 or so laps

I just feel out of place watching it

This damn chase format is a joke. It's a ****tier version of the ncaa tournament

That damn caution line is a joke, just end it under caution like the ol days

that damn double file restart was great till teammates started playing games

It's a shame what they have done to it Sort of liek country music. being southern ain't cool. Put gel in your hair and marry a model wife and drink wine

Thats cool

except it's not
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Your story is very similar to mine as I am the last of a decent sized group that has anything to do with NASCAR. We used to attend races, have parties and just overall fun around NASCAR. Most of my cronies were becoming dissatisfied before the chase but when the chase did start it finished them off. It is a shame for NASCAR as they had a good thing going but ruined things for millions of people
 
Nascar needs to have someone other than themselves promote the product.
This new contract for Cable companies only is ridiculous. How can you promote your product if the public can't see it. The numbers have to go down if most house holds can't connect.
Changes being made every month simple because changes are not well thought out is just plain stupid.
I thought the race was decent today, cars did pass each other and that ain't easy on a short track with one grove. The biggest mistake Nascar made was failing to throw the red flag until they got things figured out after that caution.
This format of the championship will be the death of Nascar.
 
Team Penske said:
Nascar needs to have someone other than themselves promote the product.
This new contract for Cable companies only is ridiculous. How can you promote your product if the public can't see it. The numbers have to go down if most house holds can't connect.
Changes being made every month simple because changes are not well thought out is just plain stupid.
I thought the race was decent today, cars did pass each other and that ain't easy on a short track with one grove. The biggest mistake Nascar made was failing to throw the red flag until they got things figured out after that caution.
This format of the championship will be the death of Nascar.
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nascar sold its soul to the devil, money and more money.
 
gnomesayin said:
No other major sport has experienced anything like this.
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I would counter with the opinion that no other sport experienced the explosion NASCAR experienced either. What goes up, must come down.

I don't hear fans of the NFL hammering continuously about the ratings decline. Why? Because they are not using it to justify a specific position about the nature of the sport. Some NASCAR fans don't like the changes, and then attendance and ratings are used to support their position.

A green flag waves. Cars go around in circles. A checkered flag waves. Pretty simple. Is and always has been.

Skoalbandit33 said:
I thought that was funny too and talking about declining NFL ratings in the same sentence with NASCAR's current position was nonsensical
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The Muppet Show.

Skoalbandit33 said:
As an NHL, NFL and NCAAF fan I can't say that I am thrilled with every change made over the years but overall I am very happy with the leagues and association. I don't care when the World Series begins or ends as that has nothing to do with how the game is played and all I know about basketball is that traveling is never called and it has a good demographic.

You say there is nothing wrong with Nascar and you may be correct however do you think it is advisable for Nascar to continue being right yet lose fans?
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NASCAR is in the position of appeasing a traditional fan base which is getting too old, and attracting new fans. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I have always said that it isn't NASCAR, it is how we watch. How the hell do we explain to a new fan what a good race is (so they can benchmark their experience) when nobody can agree on this, and most of the time (if not all of the time) opinions are skewed dependent upon the performance of favored drivers. There is so much to love about this sport that is hidden (at least here) behind petty bitching about rules, etc. when really we should just be enjoying badass race cars and the drivers (and teams) who wheel them. Seriously.

AndyMarquisLive said:
NASCAR, simply put, is not.
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I disagree 100%. We take for granted what could be interesting to new fans. We can't sell it to them because we are too busy bitching. Who would be attracted to a sport with a fan base who hates it? SMDH.
 
Revman said:
NASCAR is in the position of appeasing a traditional fan base which is getting too old, and attracting new fans. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I have always said that it isn't NASCAR, it is how we watch. How the hell do we explain to a new fan what a good race is (so they can benchmark their experience) when nobody can agree on this, and most of the time (if not all of the time) opinions are skewed dependent upon the performance of favored drivers. There is so much to love about this sport that is hidden (at least here) behind petty bitching about rules, etc. when really we should just be enjoying badass race cars and the drivers (and teams) who wheel them. Seriously.
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Don't waste your breath.

There is nothing here that hasn't been posted countless times ... by the same people.

Let's move on to Texas.
 
The exhaust decals are the biggest problem, run out the back like amatuer street car dual exhaust. The race cars are supposed to have the pipes running out the right side below the door, dammit.

Give us the old school pipe stickers were they supposed to be, lest we die..
 
aunty dive said:
Don't waste your breath.

There is nothing here that hasn't been posted countless times ... by the same people.

Let's move on to Texas.
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Agreed. On to Texas. Love that cookie cutter track with fewer and fewer fans in the stands, and TV ratings in the toilet.
 
I wouldn't complain about the points system if the racing was better. Let's get these cars sealed off the track. Maybe fix the schedule here when they aren't locked into place anymore, dump a few cookie cutters and add some unique tracks.
 
Revman said:
I disagree 100%. We take for granted what could be interesting to new fans. We can't sell it to them because we are too busy bitching. Who would be attracted to a sport with a fan base who hates it? SMDH.
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What is there to sell?

The racing is not as good as it was 10 and 20 years ago. It's just not.

We can't sell it to new fans because we're bitching, because we aren't entertained anymore. I can't name a single reason for it like other posters can, but my interest has declined significantly over the past five years. And it's reduced this year more than ever.

I haven't watched a complete Sprint Cup race since Sonoma. Even today's race, at my favorite track, I didn't watch the whole thing. I've probably watched three Xfinity races all year long. The Truck Series races are the only races that are consistently good. Well, Trucks and INDYCAR.

It's not racing that I'm falling out of love with. I'm at a racetrack every weekend. It's NASCAR I'm falling out of love with.
 
Revman said:
NASCAR is in the position of appeasing a traditional fan base which is getting too old, and attracting new fans. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I have always said that it isn't NASCAR, it is how we watch. How the hell do we explain to a new fan what a good race is (so they can benchmark their experience) when nobody can agree on this, and most of the time (if not all of the time) opinions are skewed dependent upon the performance of favored drivers. There is so much to love about this sport that is hidden (at least here) behind petty bitching about rules, etc. when really we should just be enjoying badass race cars and the drivers (and teams) who wheel them. Seriously.
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NASCAR is trying to appease new fans with gimmicks like double file restarts (which is a proven failure) and Chase eliminations and emojis on Twitter.

Doesn't matter how badass the cars or drivers are if the on track product isn't entertaining.

A few years ago, during the Olympic opening ceremonies, I was watching a badass ARCA race at Indianapolis Raceway Park on the old Speed network. At the time, most of my friends were politicians or humanitarian people or stuff like that who didn't give a **** about racing. But, my enthusiasm about that race got them to turn on the ARCA race and they loved it.

They asked me what the next race was and I told them "Watkins Glen in two weeks" because I didn't want them to watch the Brickyard 400 and suddenly not like something they just got interested in.

That's the problem right there. The entire problem.
 
Agreed the on-track garbage anymore. Too aero dependent & stuck to the ground, not enough passing and jockeying for position after the restarts are over with. Not enough "big sell" races anymore.
 
Revman said:
I would counter with the opinion that no other sport experienced the explosion NASCAR experienced either. What goes up, must come down.

I don't hear fans of the NFL hammering continuously about the ratings decline. Why? Because they are not using it to justify a specific position about the nature of the sport. Some NASCAR fans don't like the changes, and then attendance and ratings are used to support their position.
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When was the last time you watched an NFL game and participated in a discussion about the overall health of the NFL with longtime NFL fans. Answer carefully !
 
Revman said:
I would counter with the opinion that no other sport experienced the explosion NASCAR experienced either. What goes up, must come down.

I don't hear fans of the NFL hammering continuously about the ratings decline. Why? Because they are not using it to justify a specific position about the nature of the sport. Some NASCAR fans don't like the changes, and then attendance and ratings are used to support their position.
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The NFL has experienced slow and steady growth over a period of years and has been off for a few weeks this year. If the NFL starts circling the drain like Nascar you will hear all sorts of nasty sounds.

If your assertion is true that there is nothing wrong with Nascar's product why do so many people ignore it? If McDonald's decided to substantially improve its menu to the best it ever was but lost customers and sales over it would they continue down that track?
 
For people who make excuses for nascar look at the stands yesterday Lot of empty seats at a track that is one of the best
 
Revman said:
NASCAR is in the position of appeasing a traditional fan base which is getting too old, and attracting new fans. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I have always said that it isn't NASCAR, it is how we watch. How the hell do we explain to a new fan what a good race is (so they can benchmark their experience) when nobody can agree on this, and most of the time (if not all of the time) opinions are skewed dependent upon the performance of favored drivers. There is so much to love about this sport that is hidden (at least here) behind petty bitching about rules, etc. when really we should just be enjoying badass race cars and the drivers (and teams) who wheel them. Seriously.
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Nascar has alienated the traditional fan base without attracting new fans but the NFL, NHL and NCAAF have managed to appease both new and older fans. Why do you think that is?

You are completely missing the boat when it comes to how the average person (most people!) are entertained when watching something. They are watching to be entertained and to take a break from every day life and are not looking for something where they need to get a magnifying glass out seeking nuances and subtleties. Think about it this way. If there is a woman walking down the street and a friend has to explain to me why she is beautiful it is highly likely she is not my type and all the convincing in the world won't change my mind. It is the same thing with Nascar as if a person tunes in and is bored or turned off by it explaining a nuance or doing a deep dive into it won't cause it to become entertaining. Remember that when viewing something most people do not want a companion book or Cliff Claven sitting beside them explaining why they should like what they are seeing.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
What is there to sell?

The racing is not as good as it was 10 and 20 years ago. It's just not.

We can't sell it to new fans because we're bitching, because we aren't entertained anymore. I can't name a single reason for it like other posters can, but my interest has declined significantly over the past five years. And it's reduced this year more than ever.

I haven't watched a complete Sprint Cup race since Sonoma. Even today's race, at my favorite track, I didn't watch the whole thing. I've probably watched three Xfinity races all year long. The Truck Series races are the only races that are consistently good. Well, Trucks and INDYCAR.

It's not racing that I'm falling out of love with. I'm at a racetrack every weekend. It's NASCAR I'm falling out of love with.
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The real problem for Nascar is not the people who complain about the state of the series as at least they still care enough to do so. The real problem is the millions of former fans who are dead silent because Nascar is dead to them and by alienating them they have lost a generation's worth of prospective fans because they were never exposed to the series.
 
I still enjoy NASCAR for the most part, I can even take a bad race every now and then, but my two main gripes are the current chase format and the number of bogus cautions. The new chase format makes me feel like watching anything but the last 10 races is a pointless exercise, and the bogus cautions make me feel like watching anything but the last 20 laps is a pointless exercise.
 
ToyYoda said:
I still enjoy NASCAR for the most part, I can even take a bad race every now and then, but my two main gripes are the current chase format and the number of bogus cautions. The new chase format makes me feel like watching anything but the last 10 races is a pointless exercise, and the bogus cautions make me feel like watching anything but the last 20 laps is a pointless exercise.
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There are a lot of elements of Nascar I enjoy too and yesterday's race is a good example as even though it was not the best Martinsville race ever I liked what I saw. However the inexcusable delay in the race while Nascar was trying to figure things out (which they never really did) and the completely bogus banner caution did take a lot away from it.

The current chase format has taken away any shred of credibility in determining a champion and has turned the whole affair into a lottery. If there has to be a chase I could live with the original version as it at least rewarded the best over 10 races.
 
Still ,
AuzGrams said:
I wouldn't complain about the points system if the racing was better. Let's get these cars sealed off the track. Maybe fix the schedule here when they aren't locked into place anymore, dump a few cookie cutters and add some unique tracks.
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In my opinion , unique tracks like New Hampshire , Dover , Pocono , Michigan , Indy ,etc ., traditionally get the lowest ratings on here . Am I wrong ?
 
Name another televised sport where they're removing seats to avoid the embarrassment of the cameras showing empty seats?
 
ted@economy said:
Still ,

In my opinion , unique tracks like New Hampshire , Dover , Pocono , Michigan , Indy ,etc ., traditionally get the lowest ratings on here . Am I wrong ?
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MIS, Pocono and Indy have been dead dogs for quite some time but I know one of the Dover races was well liked this year and I think one of the MIS races did OK too. What people here like and what is supported through viewership nationally are at odds at times.
 
I say this a lot around here but the problem is the cars. The cars are too fragile. Beatin' and Bangin' is what made NASCAR unique and exciting to watch. Now if the cars touch, one of them most likely ends up with a flat tire and their day is ruined because the cars are so aero dependent.
The classic bump and run is all but gone from NASCAR. The cars can't afford to bump one another, and there aren't many tracks that it can be used at. Martinsville is really the only place now that we will see a bump and run and this past weekend we didn't really see any of them.

There are many other problems with NASCAR including the tv coverage, but all of those other issues would be minor if they fixed the cars. Fixing the cars leads to a better on track product, which will draw the fans in organically.
 
joe h said:
3. The cars suck. Indy car has push to pass, which has improved the competition. NASCAR has one to three teams that finds the right combinations and won't lose the lead once they reach the front.
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This is a good post and largely on point. However, competition wise NASCAR finally has been moving in the right direction with the cars. Brian France knows zilch about racing, so his instinct was toward lower HP and higher downforce, thinking everything should more resemble plate pack racing. Once that failed miserably and they went in the opposite direction of lower downforce, racing has improved and they just need to keep going further.

Push-to-pass in IndyCar and DRS in F1 are themselves artificial shortcuts, acknowledgements that natural passing in modern open-wheel cars is virtually impossible, and that trailing cars need to be given a literal advantage to accomplish it. I'm not against it. I think P2P is better than DRS because of the strategy of how it is used. But it's a necessary evil there and has no place in NASCAR. Don't give Brian France the idea that the cars need turbo boost passing capability.
 
This thread is one of the most intelligent and well-thought-out I have experienced since joining here. There are many thought-provoking points.
 
there is always good racing and passing in NASCAR. Racing lapped cars is very entertaining. Just because the 4th place car passes the 37st doesn't not mean that pass does not count
 
To me , push to pass would be great in the hands of my Favorite driver , but I wouldn't want to see it in the hands of the competition . Even the stupidest of drivers are gonna catch on how the other drivers are getting by them . Then the stupid ones are going to use it to pass them back . It's a wash , far as I can see.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Don't mind P2P. DRS is a sham. Talk about band-aids.
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Both are band-aids that would be screamed at in NASCAR but I mind DRS less than P2P. If they didn't give F1 DRS then the teams would have simply taken the F-ducts to the extreme.
 
Barbara Charles said:
This thread is one of the most intelligent and well-thought-out I have experienced since joining here. There are many thought-provoking points.
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Mom will turn out the basement lights soon. Enjoy it while you can.
 
NASCAR is nowhere near how bad F1 is in terms of on-track passing. You are lucky to see two passes in an entire race. DRS and P2P would be an extreme overreaction.
 
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Acs said:
Both are band-aids that would be screamed at in NASCAR but I mind DRS less than P2P. If they didn't give F1 DRS then the teams would have simply taken the F-ducts to the extreme.
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I don't mind P2P because everyone gets the same amount and it's up to the driver as to how and when they allocate them. DRS just feels so fake being able to use it only when you're within one second of a leading car. At least IndyCar also is removing downforce while F1 just continues to ignore the issue and arguably make it even worse by just piling on more downforce next year. Can't wait for early 2000s-style GPs next season where we'll be lucky to crack into double-digit overtakes.
 
29-4 said:
NASCAR is nowhere near how bad F1 is in terms of on-track passing. You are lucky to see two passes in an entire race. DRS and P2P would be an extreme overreaction.
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F1 has never been about a lot of passing. One thing F1 does get right is how to handle Yellow flags. The pits don't close, there are no lucky dogs, and the Safety car (Pace Car) only stay out until the debris is cleared and then immediately pulls off the track. There isn't a need to figure out where the cars are line up before they go green again under the system and the yellow flags last about 4 minutes tops.
 
No pitting under yellow would solve Nascar's problems with the caution flags and make them a mute point.
 
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