Does anyone here know the RTA's Charter status?

A team has to have 3 consecutive seasons among those at the bottom of the pile before its charter goes poof.
 
I took a look. Can't find anything definitive on that issue.
 
2 Sweet said:
But when it goes poof, it has to go somewhere else.....right? I can't imagine Nascar would want less than 36 charters.
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Correct on the "want" part. Hopefully the day doesn't come when less than 36 charters are active. Hopefully the day comes where we see 43 car fields again, but that won't be happening anytime soon.
 
aunty dive said:
NASCAR has little to do with the charter system. It's an issue completely separate from their business ... it has everything to do with the business of the team owners and nothing to do with racing.

Why people are bothered, upset or annoyed by this stuff is beyond me.
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Seems to me Nascar can still pull your Charter under certain conditions.
 
They had a hard time at some races to field 40 cars. I can see that happening more often next season
 
Team Penske said:
They had a hard time at some races to field 40 cars. I can see that happening more often next season
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Yeah..... they shortened the field to 40 from 43 .... just like they are jerking out seats as fast as they can..... and still are struggling to fill either..... won't be long before there are more charters than teams.. I wonder how much that coveted charter will be worth then..... ''0''......... LOL......
 
The sky is falling. The sky is falling.The sky is falling. The sky is falling.The sky is falling. The sky is falling.The sky is falling. The sky is falling.

What a negative thought, I wonder if all the snow I have to move is a positive or negative thing?
I am positive that someone has to move it.
 
Team Penske said:
The sky is falling. The sky is falling.The sky is falling. The sky is falling.The sky is falling. The sky is falling.The sky is falling. The sky is falling.

What a negative thought, I wonder if all the snow I have to move is a positive or negative thing?
I am positive that someone has to move it.
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Wait for it to melt.
 
Sometimes I think Florida is really the 7th New England state. Then I realize that just silly. It's obviously the 6th borough of New York City.
 
Lower-level charters that have sold so far generally go for $2-3 million. TBR >>> LFR went for $3.5 million and BKR >>>> FRM went for ~$2 million. Premium >>> FRR and HSM >>> Premium were also believed to go for low seven figures. A NASCAR official believes top-level charter could be traded on the market for high seven figures into the low to mid-teens.

A couple of other things:

In addition to on-track performance of the cars involved, the average selling prices of charters this past offseason were affected by some of the sales being packaged with wider deals between the parties involved, including equipment or debt assumption, according to sources familiar with the matter. The charters themselves don’t involve hard assets such as a team’s real estate, intellectual property, technology and equipment.
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“We’re not in the market to buy or sell right now, so the primary value for us has been in the infrastructure — how the charter system has provided stability and real value in the conduct of the sport and improving the collaboration across the industry so that ultimately we’re going to be able to produce a better product and do that more efficiently and improve the sport in that manner,” Carlson said.

Executives throughout the sport acknowledge that the system is not a silver bullet to all of the sport’s ails, in large part because it does not address the high costs of running a race team or teams’ heavy reliance on sponsorship revenue. And those executives said that so far the charters have generated little outside interest from potential suitors and investors. But Steve Newmark, president of Roush Fenway Racing, said from his view, the system “has fulfilled expectations.”

“It was never intended to solve sponsorship issues; it was designed to address stability and create residual value,” Newmark said. “Although it is early, it seems that the system is working as intended.”
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http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/04/03/Franchises/NASCAR-charters.aspx
 
FLRacingFan said:
Lower-level charters that have sold so far generally go for $2-3 million. TBR >>> LFR went for $3.5 million and BKR >>>> FRM went for ~$2 million. Premium >>> FRR and HSM >>> Premium were also believed to go for low seven figures. A NASCAR official believes top-level charter could be traded on the market for high seven figures into the low to mid-teens.

A couple of other things:





http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/04/03/Franchises/NASCAR-charters.aspx
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"packaged with wider deals between the parties involved, including equipment or debt assumption, according to sources familiar with the matter"

Sounds like some of the actual sales prices will be skewed.
 
FL, thanks for posting the article from behind the paywall. Much appreciated. From the values cited, it seems clear that historical performance is a very sizable factor in charter revenue streams. If a charter with good performance history is worth high seven figures to mid-teens, and a charter with backmarker history is just $3 million... that's all you need to know. This is as it should be.

However, there is still a gap that must be bridged to meet the ultimate goal of creating a business model that will attract new owners to the sport. That is what has to happen to ensure an ongoing supply of race teams to put on the weekly show. The elderly patriarchs that provide that essential service will inevitably leave the sport at some time....
 
LewTheShoe said:
FL, thanks for posting the article from behind the paywall. Much appreciated. From the values cited, it seems clear that historical performance is a very sizable factor in charter revenue streams. If a charter with good performance history is worth high seven figures to mid-teens, and a charter with backmarker history is just $3 million... that's all you need to know. This is as it should be.

However, there is still a gap that must be bridged to meet the ultimate goal of creating a business model that will attract new owners to the sport. That is what has to happen to ensure an ongoing supply of race teams to put on the weekly show. The elderly patriarchs that provide that essential service will inevitably leave the sport at some time....
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If you were a new team buying a charter, you would want to have the 3 yr grace deal.
Buying a charter that has finished in the bottom already would only be worth the difference in prize money for one or two years.
 
Team Penske said:
If you were a new team buying a charter, you would want to have the 3 yr grace deal.
Buying a charter that has finished in the bottom already would only be worth the difference in prize money for one or two years.
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Leasing one is worth the difference in prize money. A purchase becomes an asset and will cost more than that.

The examples above bear that out.
 
Doesn't matter now..... Since Ryan Blaney won 2 weeks ago they have one now for the next 2 years. In order to obtain a charter a race team has to start every race in a 3 years stretch OR they have to have won a race within the last 3 years, which they have done neither of those as of the start of this season. It is a performance based system in order to get the smaller teams better funding by making them look more attractive to sponsors. The reason it didn't matter to WBR is they have never had any sponsor problems because they are one of the founding racing teams in NASCAR, they are actually turning sponsors away every year. Ford Motorcraft and it's subordinate companies pretty much have a lifetime sponsorship with WBR as it's primary sponsor and now that they have starting getting top 10's and winning again they are going anywhere.
 
Bryan O'connor said:
Doesn't matter now..... Since Ryan Blaney won 2 weeks ago they have one now for the next 2 years. In order to obtain a charter a race team has to start every race in a 3 years stretch OR they have to have won a race within the last 3 years, which they have done neither of those as of the start of this season. It is a performance based system in order to get the smaller teams better funding by making them look more attractive to sponsors. The reason it didn't matter to WBR is they have never had any sponsor problems because they are one of the founding racing teams in NASCAR, they are actually turning sponsors away every year. Ford Motorcraft and it's subordinate companies pretty much have a lifetime sponsorship with WBR as it's primary sponsor and now that they have starting getting top 10's and winning again they are going anywhere.
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Is there a link for that?
 
aunty dive said:
Is there a link for that?
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go read the Nascar regs on it, that's why a lot of the upper privateers, like WBR isn't worrying about it. all they have to do is win a race, Gnassi Racing and Stewart-Hass were the same way, neither of them have been in Nascar long enough to be quailified for it but they have both had drivers win a race and have one now.
 
Bryan O'connor said:
go read the Nascar regs on it, that's why a lot of the upper privateers, like WBR isn't worrying about it. all they have to do is win a race, Gnassi Racing and Stewart-Hass were the same way, neither of them have been in Nascar long enough to be quailified for it but they have both had drivers win a race and have one now.
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Is this what they mean when they say, "Win and you're in?"
 
Bryan O'connor said:
Doesn't matter now..... Since Ryan Blaney won 2 weeks ago they have one now for the next 2 years. In order to obtain a charter a race team has to start every race in a 3 years stretch OR they have to have won a race within the last 3 years, which they have done neither of those as of the start of this season. It is a performance based system in order to get the smaller teams better funding by making them look more attractive to sponsors. The reason it didn't matter to WBR is they have never had any sponsor problems because they are one of the founding racing teams in NASCAR, they are actually turning sponsors away every year. Ford Motorcraft and it's subordinate companies pretty much have a lifetime sponsorship with WBR as it's primary sponsor and now that they have starting getting top 10's and winning again they are going anywhere.
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No, what you're describing is how the charters were originally awarded at the start of last year, these requirements are null and void as of now. The wood bros and every other team can lease or buy a charter from one of the teams originally granted one under the above circumstances, which they had already done at the beginning of the year by leasing one. The ONLY way for charters to be moved around involuntarily is if that charter (and the car it's attached to) finishes in the bottom 4? of owner points for three consecutive seasons, then NASCAR has the power to confiscate it and award it to the highest bidder. Teams have been very clever so far about trading charters around so that is very unlikely to happen. These charters are like franchise rights to a sports team, not something that can be created and lost willy-nilly based on what happens each week. I don't see how this is so hard to understand...
 
Bryan O'connor said:
go read the Nascar regs on it, that's why a lot of the upper privateers, like WBR isn't worrying about it. all they have to do is win a race, Gnassi Racing and Stewart-Hass were the same way, neither of them have been in Nascar long enough to be quailified for it but they have both had drivers win a race and have one now.
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Huh? Stewart-Haas started as Haas Racing back in 2002, over a decade before the charters were introduced. Ganassi's NASCAR history is rooted in DEI from the late '90s and Felix Sabates' SABCO and the late '80s.

In short, both had been around many times longer than the initial 3-year requirement.
 
Acs said:
No, what you're describing is how the charters were originally awarded at the start of last year, these requirements are null and void as of now. The wood bros and every other team can lease or buy a charter from one of the teams originally granted one under the above circumstances, which they had already done at the beginning of the year by leasing one. The ONLY way for charters to be moved around involuntarily is if that charter (and the car it's attached to) finishes in the bottom 4? of owner points for three consecutive seasons, then NASCAR has the power to confiscate it and award it to the highest bidder. Teams have been very clever so far about trading charters around so that is very unlikely to happen. These charters are like franchise rights to a sports team, not something that can be created and lost willy-nilly based on what happens each week. I don't see how this is so hard to understand...
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I thought things were as you described. Regardless unless something changes charters are not going to be worth a whole lot and it is my opinion the only reason they came into being was because Rob Kauffman wanted to get paid when MWR went belly up.
 
Bryan O'connor said:
go read the Nascar regs on it, that's why a lot of the upper privateers, like WBR isn't worrying about it. all they have to do is win a race, Gnassi Racing and Stewart-Hass were the same way, neither of them have been in Nascar long enough to be quailified for it but they have both had drivers win a race and have one now.
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I've read them.

At this point in the illustrious history of the charter system, The Woods' can either lease or buy a charter ... they're currently leasing.

Winning a race or races is no help.
 
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