Drivers Say Engine Cooling During New Qualifying Procedure Is Far Too Dangerous

Tumbleweed

Tumbleweed

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 30, 2013
Messages
4,268
Points
743
>>NASCAR would be hard-pressed to find many fans who don't prefer the drama and intrigue of the new, knockout qualifying format over the old system of single-car runs.

But the rules have created a wrinkle that drivers up and down the grid say is far too dangerous.

NASCAR has now been warned - repeatedly, by some of the biggest names in the sport. And finding an immediate solution to what Brian Vickers called ''the most dangerous thing I've ever done in racing'' should be NASCAR's only item on the agenda this week.

For two weeks in a row, drivers have complained that their engines are too hot following their qualifying runs. They can either cool the engines or gamble on not blowing the engine on the next fast lap.

Only NASCAR has prohibited teams from cooling their cars on pit road because doing so would require the use of a cooling box. Since few adjustments are allowed during qualifying rounds, the cooling box is not an option because it would require teams to open the hood of the car. Once the hoods are open, inspectors would have too difficult of a time policing pit road to make sure no adjustments are being made to the cars.

So teams figured out their own solution: Drivers are slowing their cars to a crawl and circling the track at slow speeds to cool the engines following their fast laps. It's going on at the same time as other drivers are speeding along, making their qualifying attempt.....<<

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nascar-must-address-dangers-qualifying-200459685--nascar.html
 
I was about to say "They have electric fans, why are they having to move??" until I remembered that unlike drag cars, NASCAR uses a mechanical waterpump instead of an electric one. Maybe they should be permitted to run an electric one for qualifying but require mechanical during the race [electric ones aren't greatly reliable at sustained high temperatures].

For more than 1 reason, I'd like to see somebody make a hybrid E/M water pump, similar to how AC compressors engage, if not simpler. Use a low RPM circulation motor which goes on the front of the pulley and bolts to something rigid nearby. Then use a clutch to engage either the electric motor or mechanical pulley.
 
Geeez maybe they should have thought about the whole deal for 5 minutes or so before they put it into action :rolleyes:
 
Kyle18fan said:
Geeez maybe they should have thought about the whole deal for 5 minutes or so before they put it into action :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

You know, your sentence there reminded me of someone else in the way you structured it and expressed it. It reminds me of the way a driver I know would have expressed the same sentiment and it finally dawned on me. Your not just a Kyle Busch fan, you are actually Kyle Busch himself! :D
 
Tumbleweed said:
You know, your sentence there reminded me of someone else in the way you structured it and expressed it. It reminds me of the way a driver I know would have expressed the same sentiment and it finally dawned on me. Your not just a Kyle Busch fan, you are actually Kyle Busch himself! :D
Click to expand...
He changes his avatar every 18 minutes as a hint
 
I like what KPe said about Bristol. "Its like trying to fly a fighter plane in a gymnasium". With the new qualifying rules, it will be like trying to fly a jet in a gym with a bunch of preteen girls and justin Beiber has been sighted in the gym.
 
Moving the water by a electrical or mechanical pump won't make much difference if the radiator opening is taped off for qualifying.
Nascar's brilliant solution will be to eliminate, outlaw and flog unmercifully anyone caught running tape on any grille openings.
 
Nitro Dude said:
I was thinking the same thing. Don't let them tape up the grill and problem solved.
Click to expand...
These teams are going to complain about safety when they have the ability to solve many of the problems themselves. I think they'd rather have NASCAR resolve it for them. It's kinda funny really. I mean, NASCAR is the bad guy when making new rules yet we still all complain when they don't make a rule. I think a no tape rule should be implemented this weekend to see how that plays out. It's a work in progress. There's no way to test this out without actually doing it. I really like this new qualifying routine. I don't care so much for the cooling part but I think the teams themselves can work towards that direction.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
These teams are going to complain about safety when they have the ability to solve many of the problems themselves. I think they'd rather have NASCAR resolve it for them. It's kinda funny really. I mean, NASCAR is the bad guy when making new rules yet we still all complain when they don't make a rule. I think a no tape rule should be implemented this weekend to see how that plays out. It's a work in progress. There's no way to test this out without actually doing it. I really like this new qualifying routine. I don't care so much for the cooling part but I think the teams themselves can work towards that direction.
Click to expand...
Teams aren't going to put themselves at a competitive disadvantage though, which is why NASCAR has to step in. There will always be at least a handful of teams who decide to stick it out and run tape on the car to get a top spot on the grid as long as they're allowed to do so.
 
sloggie said:
I would suggest that the older drivers who think this is too dangerous should retire. Racing is a sport for the young
Click to expand...

Not sure why they care about safety at all....I mean there are only a couple deaths each decade from Stock Car racing. That's like pretty good odds right? Plus the young guys are less likely to die in crashes anyway. Good point.





:rolleyes:
 
FLRacingFan said:
Teams aren't going to put themselves at a competitive disadvantage though, which is why NASCAR has to step in. There will always be at least a handful of teams who decide to stick it out and run tape on the car to get a top spot on the grid as long as they're allowed to do so.
Click to expand...
Exactly, that's why they need to make it a rule. The teams aren't willing to take it on themselves so NASCAR will have to step in.
 
Magnethead said:
I was about to say "They have electric fans, why are they having to move??" until I remembered that unlike drag cars, NASCAR uses a mechanical waterpump instead of an electric one. Maybe they should be permitted to run an electric one for qualifying but require mechanical during the race [electric ones aren't greatly reliable at sustained high temperatures].

For more than 1 reason, I'd like to see somebody make a hybrid E/M water pump, similar to how AC compressors engage, if not simpler. Use a low RPM circulation motor which goes on the front of the pulley and bolts to something rigid nearby. Then use a clutch to engage either the electric motor or mechanical pulley.
Click to expand...

I can't understand why they aren't using high volume fans on pit road. Blocking the wheels and idling the car would cool the cars faster than what they are doing now, because the engine wouldn't be doing any work and the air flow would be much greater.
 
I can't believe how complicated nascar is making this. Cars are rolling around the track to get air to flow into the grill and cool the engine. Weren't fans invented to create air flow?
 
Tumbleweed said:
You know, your sentence there reminded me of someone else in the way you structured it and expressed it. It reminds me of the way a driver I know would have expressed the same sentiment and it finally dawned on me. Your not just a Kyle Busch fan, you are actually Kyle Busch himself! :D
Click to expand...

Shhhhhhhhh :waver:
 
beantownkid10 said:
Not sure why they care about safety at all....I mean there are only a couple deaths each decade from Stock Car racing. That's like pretty good odds right? Plus the young guys are less likely to die in crashes anyway. Good point.


:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

That's a ridiculous argument. We are not talking about removing safer barriers here. No one is going to get killed because of the qualifying format. What we have here is old drivers whining about how the good old days of the old system were so much better.
 
sloggie said:
That's a ridiculous argument. We are not talking about removing safer barriers here. No one is going to get killed because of the qualifying format. What we have here is old drivers whining about how the good old days of the old system were so much better.
Click to expand...

Yah them "old drivers" dont know nuthin :rolleyes:
 
Nitro Dude said:
I was thinking the same thing. Don't let them tape up the grill and problem solved.
Click to expand...

FenderBumper said:
I can't believe how complicated nascar is making this. Cars are rolling around the track to get air to flow into the grill and cool the engine. Weren't fans invented to create air flow?
Click to expand...

ND, I think NASCAR needs to walk through the pro-stock pits and watch how they cool their motors off......even the sportsman pits to a lesser extent.
 
Magnethead said:
ND, I think NASCAR needs to walk through the pro-stock pits and watch how they cool their motors off......even the sportsman pits to a lesser extent.
Click to expand...
Why doesn't running tape free solve part of the problem? I understand the teams don't want to because speed would suffer but why wouldn't that be an option? Remove 10 cents worth of tape and have at it.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Why doesn't running tape free solve part of the problem? I understand the teams don't want to because speed would suffer but why wouldn't that be an option? Remove 10 cents worth of tape and have at it.
Click to expand...

That seems to be the easiest solution, but nascar seems to think that will lead to teams going out for just 1 or 2 laps. I don't get the logic, but that's what Bob P or Dustin L tweeted. If tape is the ONLY thing they can adjust, why not allow tire pressure adjustments instead? Then cars would take laps to tune it in.

In the end, fans solve the problem nicely without changing the quality of qualifying. Fans would certainly lead to more runs.
 
How can anyone be sure that removing the tape from the grill will solve the cool down issue?
 
I think the teams are used to setting the cars up for single car qualifying laps - run and done. They haven't adjusted to the new plan yet. They might have to set the cars up closer to race trim. Once someone figures it out and starts collecting poles the others will adjust.
 
sloggie said:
That's a ridiculous argument. We are not talking about removing safer barriers here. No one is going to get killed because of the qualifying format. What we have here is old drivers whining about how the good old days of the old system were so much better.
Click to expand...
I don't know where it is , maybe someone else does ; but last week somebody posted a video of an F1 car getting run over from behind while on a cool down lap. Looked pretty damn serious to me .
 
sloggie said:
That's a ridiculous argument. We are not talking about removing safer barriers here. No one is going to get killed because of the qualifying format. What we have here is old drivers whining about how the good old days of the old system were so much better.
Click to expand...

I'd love to get you in a car and have another car blast by you 170 mph faster than you're going, then see what your opinion is.
 
FenderBumper said:
Do they use fans and idle the engines?
Click to expand...
effectively. Most drag cars run an electric water pump so that water can circulate with engine off, and use giant blowers like would be used to dry carpet to cool the engine and transmission, in addition to the radiator fan. We use a bounce house blower on the dragster.
 
Magnethead said:
just saw a report that NASCAR is prohibiting cool down laps but permitting chill boxed via hood openings.
Click to expand...
CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) — The Associated Press has learned that NASCAR is making changes to qualifying after drivers expressed safety concerns.

During a conference call Tuesday with crew chiefs, NASCAR banned drivers from making cool-down laps following their qualifying attempt. Teams will instead be allowed to hook up cooling units to their engines through hood flaps.

NASCAR this season moved to a new knockout qualifying format widely praised as more entertaining. Drivers say the new rules prohibit cooling the engines on pit road, forcing them to circle the track at slow speeds at the same time other drivers are speeding past during their qualifying attempt. Brian Vickers called it "the most dangerous thing" he's ever done in racing.
Several people who participated in Tuesday's call told the AP that NASCAR initially said teams could use external fans on pit road to cool the engines. But after nearly unanimous objections, NASCAR relented on the use of cooling units.

The people spoke on condition of anonymity because NASCAR has not formally announced the changes.

link
 
I'm so glad to hear that they are changing the rules. Having 200 mph cars circling 50 mph cars is a recipe for disaster. I just seen it happen at the boat race this past weekend when on a warm up lap a boat going full speed had the steering break and drove right through a boat that was just cruising killing the driver. I have seen a driver killed at the last two boat races i have been to and i just don't want to see it again next week in a Nascar race.
 
mreed said:
I'd love to get you in a car and have another car blast by you 170 mph faster than you're going, then see what your opinion is.
Click to expand...

I have some local short track and rally experience. We should just put bumpers on the car and limit them to 20 mph
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom