DW's GOAT

Greg said:
Jeff didnt build the house, he couldn’t even sustain the same level after Ray left. He also had demonstrated an Achilles heel on restarts, he just isnt the animal like others. Races have been lost.

I have read a lot of Alan sucks yada, yada if Jeff was able to build Hendrick why cant he fix his restarts and get a worthy CC.
The reason JJ has the best crew is easy, Hendrick kmows were to invest his best talent. All damning attributes for a GOAT.
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Ask Rick where HMS would be without Jeff. (Or look at countless interviews where Rick has stated Jeff's integral role in building HMS to where it is today). I'll accept your apology in advance.
 
Matthew2470 said:
Ask Rick where HMS would be without Jeff. (Or look at countless interviews where Rick has stated Jeff's integral role in building HMS to where it is today). I'll accept your apology in advance.
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It's ok. With Roush caving in on itself and JGR struggling to compete with the Chevy prowess, he's feeling defeated and needs to disagree with the blatantly obvious. :p
 
Matthew2470 said:
Ask Rick where HMS would be without Jeff. (Or look at countless interviews where Rick has stated Jeff's integral role in building HMS to where it is today). I'll accept your apology in advance.
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Why would I apolgize for not being naive enough to believe the hype. Rick is polished and highly invested so I am not surprised that he heaps praise upon Gordon, I wouldnt expect anything less.
And for the record this Gordon building the Hendrick organization is a nice diversion from his non GOAT credentials. A better argument could be made for Earnhardt building RCR. He just doesnt need such a diversion so it doesnt get the needless hype.

Hendrick was already strong, Jeff like Jimmie just came along at a good time. They already had strong engines Dorton was great and they overcame Elliotts mid 80s superiority. They should have had more Daytona 500 wins, the memory of Waltrips fuel milage win was strong but Ken Shrader in another Hendrick car was even faster.

But most of all the performance of Tim Richmond demonstrated what a Hendrick car could do. It enticed Waltrip to leave Jr Johnson for a Hendrick ride.

If I was a Gordon GOAT type I would be playing the he built Hendrick organaization hype and wonderful personality card too. His fall off, way before turning 40 and A minus grade performance in the COT and GEN6 era is something for his GOATers to minimize, or avoid an ugly reality.

In the same era Johnson has won 41 times, Kyle Busch the great nationwide driver has more than twice as many cup wins as the GOAT in the same span. Hamlin has 22, Edwards has 17, Stewart has 17, Kenseth has 15, Harvick 14
Brad has 13 wins (or one more than Jeff) and one of those was in a Finch Car and in fewer races.

And it is really interesting to hear folks scream but Chad, but Chad made Jimmie, and then hear about Jeff building HMS with no mention Ray. It feels like a one sided Star Trek convention turned into a Jeff convention. He is one of the greats and he has been great, but as for the most accomplished drivers (top three all time) he is no GOAT imo.

note: I would add a -/+ 1 era margin to my sited numbers COT to present numbers. I pulled then from 3 different driver averages tables and added them in my head while writing.
 
It is funny how Knaus gets much of the credit for Johnson's success while a number of Gordon's CC's get most of the blame for #24 team's lacking, over the same period of time :)
 
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