Enough Is Enough Full Season Championship.

HoneyBadger said:
CARS Tour pulled good for a Friday night.

And Wednesday night is a much better timeslot. Friday night is where shows are sent to die.

Regardless, my point is that dirt racing does not have mainstream popularity. Right now, the only motorsports events that are mainstream are F1 and the Indianapolis 500.
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I was never able to find those numbers. All I could find out of Flo is that they say High limit averages around 200,000 viewers per month.
 
Greg said:
I would be okay without a side by side, let them do the full screen commercials to pay the bills. It is a need.
But I would still prefer not breaking the continuity and creating a rash of more cautions.
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What works for me during stage break commercials is that I watch Youtube on the computer, or go fix some snacks, hit the can etc. I don't want to go backwards. We have been able to increase the side by sides during the races in addition to less full screens. I don't have a problem with cautions, never have. It's part of racing.
 
StandOnIt said:
I don't have a problem with cautions, never have.
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I don’t have a problem with cautions that occur for safety reasons but we all know caution breed cautions. Deliberately scheduling cautions introduces two unnecessary restarts and the increased chances of subsequent yellows.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I don’t have a problem with cautions that occur for safety reasons but we all know caution breed cautions. Deliberately scheduling cautions introduces two unnecessary restarts and the increased chances of subsequent yellows.
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Doesn't bother me. I'm not a caution counter. That's your job.
 
Greg said:
I would be okay without a side by side, let them do the full screen commercials to pay the bills. It is a need.
But I would still prefer not breaking the continuity and creating a rash of more cautions.
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From what I’ve heard, there’s internal evidence showing side-by-side ads are more effective and advertisers are starting to prefer those, which is why Amazon and TNT went that direction.

IIRC, FOX said something about the effectiveness of side-by-side prior to the Daytona 500.

Basically, people are more likely to keep watching since the race is still on instead of flipping the channel or going to the bathroom or something.
 
HoneyBadger said:
From what I’ve heard, there’s internal evidence showing side-by-side ads are more effective and advertisers are starting to prefer those, which is why Amazon and TNT went that direction.

IIRC, FOX said something about the effectiveness of side-by-side prior to the Daytona 500.

Basically, people are more likely to keep watching since the race is still on instead of flipping the channel or going to the bathroom or something.
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Fox and NBC's local affiliates have to run their ads on full screen.

Another reason broadcast sucks.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Fox and NBC's local affiliates have to run their ads on full screen.

Another reason broadcast sucks.
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Not true.

ABC airs F1 commercial free. NBC airs entire Olympic matches and soccer games commercial free. FOX will air World Cup games uninterrupted.

Local affiliates can’t even sell ads for some of the races and other sporting events. Just during prerace or postrace.
 
HoneyBadger said:
Not true.

ABC airs F1 commercial free. NBC airs entire Olympic matches and soccer games commercial free. FOX will air World Cup games uninterrupted.

Local affiliates can’t even sell ads for some of the races and other sporting events. Just during prerace or postrace.
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Okay, then why do we still get full screen ads during races?

Thanks
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Okay, then why do we still get full screen ads during races?

Thanks
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FOX only ran full screen ads during stage breaks and red flags for the broadcast races. FS1 was commercial city.

But to answer your question, the networks all overpaid.

The only partnerships that are working out for everyone are Amazon (Prime) and Nexstar (CW).

And cable providers require some stations allow them to slip in ads.
 
StandOnIt said:
I would like to see one of you find a survey that positively shows all these people who you claim are out there that love the current playoff system. In all of my travels on the web I got nothing. Maybe a couple of positive comments about the current format among 50 others that want a format change. Of course you always have a few tweakers in threads who want 3, 5 or 5 races or half a dozen drivers going head to head etc. But it's no contest for a 36 race season.
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Not hard tbh. Just survey the Joey Logano fan club website. :punkrocke ;)
 
StandOnIt said:
What works for me during stage break commercials is that I watch Youtube on the computer, or go fix some snacks, hit the can etc. I don't want to go backwards. We have been able to increase the side by sides during the races in addition to less full screens. I don't have a problem with cautions, never have. It's part of racing.
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Smoke break.
 
Honestly, Think playoff haters care more than defenders. My wish would be for fans to be happy, and enjoy this great sport. I will head to a warm place each fall. Whether that is a Championship race, or a race that leads to a Championship doesn't matter to me. Just find a system, and stick with it so WE can talk about how fast MY Toyotas are.
 
StandOnIt said:
When has the last race ever had big ratings? Never.
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To be fair, they got a bump for the first Homestead winner-take-all finale in 2015. Call it initial curiosity. It's all been downhill from there. The plummeting TV viewership for the finale and playoffs races in general far exceed the declines for the rest of the schedule.

The playoffs gambit is a resounding commercial failure. In addition to creating the opposite effect on late season interest as was intended, the obsessive focus on playoffs has been a detriment to promoting other concepts like crown jewel events.

The finale race has set a new record low for viewership with each passing year. Let that sink in.

I'm also tired of the crutch of blaming the fanbase. The fanbase didn't make this mess. Weak and indecisive executive leadership did.

Finale race viewership by year:

2014 (last Chase finale): 5.223 million
2015 (first Final Four): 7.643
2016: 6.1
2017: 4.662
2018: 4.154
2019: 3.74
2020: 3.06
2021: 3.214
2022: 3.213
2023: 2.92
2024: 2.895
 

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gnomesayin said:
To be fair, they got a bump for the first Homestead winner-take-all finale in 2015. Call it initial curiosity. It's all been downhill from there. The plummeting TV viewership for the finale and playoffs races in general far exceed the declines for the rest of the schedule.

The playoffs gambit is a resounding commercial failure. In addition to creating the opposite effect on late season interest as was intended, the obsessive focus on playoffs has been a detriment to promoting other concepts like crown jewel events.

The finale race has set a new record low for viewership with each passing year. Let that sink in.

I'm also tired of the crutch of blaming the fanbase. The fanbase didn't make this mess. Weak and indecisive executive leadership did.

Finale race viewership by year:

2014 (last Chase finale): 5.223 million
2015 (first Final Four): 7.643
2016: 6.1
2017: 4.662
2018: 4.154
2019: 3.74
2020: 3.06
2021: 3.214
2022: 3.213
2023: 2.92
2024: 2.895
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2014 was the first “Final Four” event with Harvick/Hamlin/Logano/Newman but it had the same impact you described, it was up slightly over 2013 and even more over 2012.

2015 had the benefit of moving from ESPN to NBC, Jeff Gordon being in contention in his final scheduled race, and a rain delay that pushed the race deep into the Football Night in America window. It was very much a fluke TV figure.

Andrew Maness did some research many years ago that concluded the ‘Chase’ from 2004-2013 did effectively nothing for total TV viewership on the season but merely redistributed viewership from the first 26 races to the last 10. At best, it neither eroded nor enhanced viewership over the course of the season, and that was before going all-in with eliminations and cutoffs and win-and-in. It would hard to argue there is any positive benefit a dozen years into this iteration of a playoff.
 
The most well known/famous/beloved active race car drivers in the United States are F1 drivers based on all the available information: not merely just TV ratings (which are basically a push now between NASCAR and F1) but also every other imaginable metric from social media reach to search volume to just available merchandise. I can buy F1 Lego sets at Meijer here in Michigan. I basically can't buy a NASCAR anything at the same giant hypermart retailer with a history of racing sponsorship. It isn't even particularly close.

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This is all to say that NASCAR drivers aren't stars and certainly short track guys aren't "stars" either. But there also are a lot fewer big stars in general anywhere because the democratization of media has made hundreds of thousands of minor stars. NASCAR alone is not at fault. Alternately, does NASCAR care to make stars or does NASCAR want to be the star itself? This is the same gambit that the UFC and WWE have been presented with in the past and both opted to try and make the promotion and promoter the lead star, and both have suffered from prolonged periods of fan disengagement. Just not large enough fan disengagement to cause them to lose out on lucrative carriage deals.
 
StandOnIt said:
I would like to see one of you find a survey that positively shows all these people who you claim are out there that love the current playoff system. In all of my travels on the web I got nothing. Maybe a couple of positive comments about the current format among 50 others that want a format change. Of course you always have a few tweakers in threads who want 3, 5 or 5 races or half a dozen drivers going head to head etc. But it's no contest for a 36 race season.
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You might have me confused with another poster. I never made a claim about who does or doesn't "love the current playoff system." I was just asking if there was something that clearly validated support for the full season championship. But I will admit I do prefer some type of playoff vs a full season championship
 
HoneyBadger said:
Basically, people are more likely to keep watching since the race is still on instead of flipping the channel or going to the bathroom or something.
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Channel flipping, yes. I'm less likely to do it. But I record the races in the fall and watch them later in the evening. I skip through all commercials and some race action when things get strung out or they do "through the field" updates.
 
When it comes to marketability, while these drivers certainly are hard to market, NASCAR has also chosen to promote everything but the drivers.

It's about the NASCAR brand, the manufacturers, the team owners, the tracks and the racing. The drivers are on the back burner.
 
HoneyBadger said:
When it comes to marketability, while these drivers certainly are hard to market, NASCAR has also chosen to promote everything but the drivers.

It's about the NASCAR brand, the manufacturers, the team owners, the tracks and the racing. The drivers are on the back burner.
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Probably because Nascar is a total family owned business and the drivers are employees of separate independent contractors(teams). They will also steal/sway sponsors away from teams, Teams will take from drivers, drivers will take from teams etc.
 
StandOnIt said:
Probably because Nascar is a total family owned business and the drivers are employees of separate independent contractors(teams). They will also steal/sway sponsors away from teams, Teams will take from drivers, drivers will take from teams etc.
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It's a failing marketing strategy, no matter how you look at it.
 
gnomesayin said:
To be fair, they got a bump for the first Homestead winner-take-all finale in 2015. Call it initial curiosity. It's all been downhill from there. The plummeting TV viewership for the finale and playoffs races in general far exceed the declines for the rest of the schedule.

The playoffs gambit is a resounding commercial failure. In addition to creating the opposite effect on late season interest as was intended, the obsessive focus on playoffs has been a detriment to promoting other concepts like crown jewel events.

The finale race has set a new record low for viewership with each passing year. Let that sink in.

I'm also tired of the crutch of blaming the fanbase. The fanbase didn't make this mess. Weak and indecisive executive leadership did.

Finale race viewership by year:

2014 (last Chase finale): 5.223 million
2015 (first Final Four): 7.643
2016: 6.1
2017: 4.662
2018: 4.154
2019: 3.74
2020: 3.06
2021: 3.214
2022: 3.213
2023: 2.92
2024: 2.895
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Cut in half from 2015-2019. And they’ve dragged it out for 6 more years after that.
 
StandOnIt said:
I would like to see one of you find a survey that positively shows all these people who you claim are out there that love the current playoff system. In all of my travels on the web I got nothing. Maybe a couple of positive comments about the current format among 50 others that want a format change. Of course you always have a few tweakers in threads who want 3, 5 or 5 races or half a dozen drivers going head to head etc. But it's no contest for a 36 race season.
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Do a search for people who think NASCAR is great. I'll wait.
 
Some things like the gerbils continuing to say how hard it is to pass when it isn't true for the most part draws a lot of me too comments in the media. But not a peep about the fudged up point system NBC came up with. This outrage has started from the grass roots fans mostly influenced by the yanking around this points system has created with teams cheating, the constant tweaking changes, the last place car making the playoffs, 2 years in a row the dominating cars in cup didn't win the championship, it all adds up to a breaking point.
 
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