Nope I wasn't. It's in the racing world. I'm not an idiot. Welfare ball in all it's glory is the elephant in the room. This is a racing forum dealing with racing. It has it's stars.You’re the one arguing mainstream popularity.
Enough Is Enough Full Season Championship.
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I was never able to find those numbers. All I could find out of Flo is that they say High limit averages around 200,000 viewers per month.
Greg
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I would be okay without a side by side, let them do the full screen commercials to pay the bills. It is a need.
But I would still prefer not breaking the continuity and creating a rash of more cautions.
What works for me during stage break commercials is that I watch Youtube on the computer, or go fix some snacks, hit the can etc. I don't want to go backwards. We have been able to increase the side by sides during the races in addition to less full screens. I don't have a problem with cautions, never have. It's part of racing.
HoneyBadger
Kelsey Mitchell fan account
200,000 viewers per month in a country with 342 million people.
Stock car racing, dirt and asphalt, is very much a niche sport. Which is why most of our races are shown on FS1, TNT and USA instead of FOX and NBC.
I don’t have a problem with cautions that occur for safety reasons but we all know caution breed cautions. Deliberately scheduling cautions introduces two unnecessary restarts and the increased chances of subsequent yellows.
Doesn't bother me. I'm not a caution counter. That's your job.
HoneyBadger
Kelsey Mitchell fan account
From what I’ve heard, there’s internal evidence showing side-by-side ads are more effective and advertisers are starting to prefer those, which is why Amazon and TNT went that direction.
IIRC, FOX said something about the effectiveness of side-by-side prior to the Daytona 500.
Basically, people are more likely to keep watching since the race is still on instead of flipping the channel or going to the bathroom or something.
Fox and NBC's local affiliates have to run their ads on full screen.
Another reason broadcast sucks.
HoneyBadger
Kelsey Mitchell fan account
Not true.
ABC airs F1 commercial free. NBC airs entire Olympic matches and soccer games commercial free. FOX will air World Cup games uninterrupted.
Local affiliates can’t even sell ads for some of the races and other sporting events. Just during prerace or postrace.
HoneyBadger
Kelsey Mitchell fan account
FOX only ran full screen ads during stage breaks and red flags for the broadcast races. FS1 was commercial city.
But to answer your question, the networks all overpaid.
The only partnerships that are working out for everyone are Amazon (Prime) and Nexstar (CW).
And cable providers require some stations allow them to slip in ads.
hmmm298
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hmmm298
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Smoke break.
Revman
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Honestly, Think playoff haters care more than defenders. My wish would be for fans to be happy, and enjoy this great sport. I will head to a warm place each fall. Whether that is a Championship race, or a race that leads to a Championship doesn't matter to me. Just find a system, and stick with it so WE can talk about how fast MY Toyotas are.
gnomesayin
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To be fair, they got a bump for the first Homestead winner-take-all finale in 2015. Call it initial curiosity. It's all been downhill from there. The plummeting TV viewership for the finale and playoffs races in general far exceed the declines for the rest of the schedule.
The playoffs gambit is a resounding commercial failure. In addition to creating the opposite effect on late season interest as was intended, the obsessive focus on playoffs has been a detriment to promoting other concepts like crown jewel events.
The finale race has set a new record low for viewership with each passing year. Let that sink in.
I'm also tired of the crutch of blaming the fanbase. The fanbase didn't make this mess. Weak and indecisive executive leadership did.
Finale race viewership by year:
2014 (last Chase finale): 5.223 million
2015 (first Final Four): 7.643
2016: 6.1
2017: 4.662
2018: 4.154
2019: 3.74
2020: 3.06
2021: 3.214
2022: 3.213
2023: 2.92
2024: 2.895
Attachments
@Revman knows his priorities.
Moved from how dare you bad mouth the playoffs, back to default mode.
FLRacingFan
Team Owner
2014 was the first “Final Four” event with Harvick/Hamlin/Logano/Newman but it had the same impact you described, it was up slightly over 2013 and even more over 2012.
2015 had the benefit of moving from ESPN to NBC, Jeff Gordon being in contention in his final scheduled race, and a rain delay that pushed the race deep into the Football Night in America window. It was very much a fluke TV figure.
Andrew Maness did some research many years ago that concluded the ‘Chase’ from 2004-2013 did effectively nothing for total TV viewership on the season but merely redistributed viewership from the first 26 races to the last 10. At best, it neither eroded nor enhanced viewership over the course of the season, and that was before going all-in with eliminations and cutoffs and win-and-in. It would hard to argue there is any positive benefit a dozen years into this iteration of a playoff.
gnomesayin
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Oops. Thanks for the correction.
Nevertheless, because the playoffs are an unmitigated and ever worsening commercial disaster, playoffs advocates are left to tell us why they are so superior competitively that it's worth driving the bulk of the potential audience away anyway.
Nevertheless, because the playoffs are an unmitigated and ever worsening commercial disaster, playoffs advocates are left to tell us why they are so superior competitively that it's worth driving the bulk of the potential audience away anyway.
virtualbalboa
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The most well known/famous/beloved active race car drivers in the United States are F1 drivers based on all the available information: not merely just TV ratings (which are basically a push now between NASCAR and F1) but also every other imaginable metric from social media reach to search volume to just available merchandise. I can buy F1 Lego sets at Meijer here in Michigan. I basically can't buy a NASCAR anything at the same giant hypermart retailer with a history of racing sponsorship. It isn't even particularly close.
This is all to say that NASCAR drivers aren't stars and certainly short track guys aren't "stars" either. But there also are a lot fewer big stars in general anywhere because the democratization of media has made hundreds of thousands of minor stars. NASCAR alone is not at fault. Alternately, does NASCAR care to make stars or does NASCAR want to be the star itself? This is the same gambit that the UFC and WWE have been presented with in the past and both opted to try and make the promotion and promoter the lead star, and both have suffered from prolonged periods of fan disengagement. Just not large enough fan disengagement to cause them to lose out on lucrative carriage deals.
This is all to say that NASCAR drivers aren't stars and certainly short track guys aren't "stars" either. But there also are a lot fewer big stars in general anywhere because the democratization of media has made hundreds of thousands of minor stars. NASCAR alone is not at fault. Alternately, does NASCAR care to make stars or does NASCAR want to be the star itself? This is the same gambit that the UFC and WWE have been presented with in the past and both opted to try and make the promotion and promoter the lead star, and both have suffered from prolonged periods of fan disengagement. Just not large enough fan disengagement to cause them to lose out on lucrative carriage deals.
DIDIT
Old School Fan
You might have me confused with another poster. I never made a claim about who does or doesn't "love the current playoff system." I was just asking if there was something that clearly validated support for the full season championship. But I will admit I do prefer some type of playoff vs a full season championship
MRM
Team Owner
Channel flipping, yes. I'm less likely to do it. But I record the races in the fall and watch them later in the evening. I skip through all commercials and some race action when things get strung out or they do "through the field" updates.
HoneyBadger
Kelsey Mitchell fan account
When it comes to marketability, while these drivers certainly are hard to market, NASCAR has also chosen to promote everything but the drivers.
It's about the NASCAR brand, the manufacturers, the team owners, the tracks and the racing. The drivers are on the back burner.
It's about the NASCAR brand, the manufacturers, the team owners, the tracks and the racing. The drivers are on the back burner.
Probably because Nascar is a total family owned business and the drivers are employees of separate independent contractors(teams). They will also steal/sway sponsors away from teams, Teams will take from drivers, drivers will take from teams etc.
HoneyBadger
Kelsey Mitchell fan account
It's a failing marketing strategy, no matter how you look at it.
Another matter of opinion as they are getting sued at the present time for having a strangle hold on the racing industry lol.
Efisher131
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Cut in half from 2015-2019. And they’ve dragged it out for 6 more years after that.
Revman
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Not really. Just not sipping the "it's awful" narrative like SOU.
Revman
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Do a search for people who think NASCAR is great. I'll wait.
It's possible to think NASCAR is great overall while still disliking the championship format, or stages, or points systems, or GWCs, or road course, or plate races, or the schedule, or ...
Some things like the gerbils continuing to say how hard it is to pass when it isn't true for the most part draws a lot of me too comments in the media. But not a peep about the fudged up point system NBC came up with. This outrage has started from the grass roots fans mostly influenced by the yanking around this points system has created with teams cheating, the constant tweaking changes, the last place car making the playoffs, 2 years in a row the dominating cars in cup didn't win the championship, it all adds up to a breaking point.
Revman
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Now we have "grass roots fans." You know what man.....this sport doesn't owe anybody anything.....witness the 23XI crap. GRF won't fill the seats or increase the TV numbers. If they don't like what we have, go to that dirt track in the middle of nowhere, and BS yourselves about how this is what NASCAR should look like. The sport is fine. The numbers were always going to do this. NASCAR's biggest problem is that it doesn't have the balls to stick with a decision.....it keeps trying to appease keyboard warriors who want constant chaos. I get the game....no matter what happens, you are all jacked up to discredit the Champion this year.....particularly if it is a Toyota--which I so hope that it is. Is this good for the sport? Nope, but you and your GRFs have a higher understanding of what the sport should be, so tearing it down is a necessary evil so a disgruntled never champion like Mark Martin is happy? Bottom line....the sport is amazing. WE race 36 weeks....all of those weeks are awesome.....we crown a Champion at the end.....if the ending was all that mattered, we are idiots for watching the whole damn season.....nobody has taken away anything.
It owes fans and viewers a credible, entertaining product. That's how it makes money. More people are saying the current championship format isn't credible, that it results in champions who are not the most consistently successful over the season. (This is not a knock on those drivers; you compete within the system you're given.)
On the other hand, fans and viewers don't owe NASCAR a thing. We have plenty of alternatives.
If Hamlin or Bell or Briscoe win, great; they're definitely among the drivers who were at the top of the standings this season. But the only reason to have a 16-car field and four rounds is to knock out guys who have no chance and shouldn't have been included in the first place. You might as well put red shirts on them and beam them down as Kirk's security team; they're only there to generate drama by getting killed.
I don't see how a Toyota-driving champion can generate more disdain this season than Ford pilot Logano did last year.
Revman
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NASCAR has given the fans a credible product...maybe with a Champion who could be arguable, but not very often. You will always have that, and much of it is rooted in fandom honestly. Those who don't like it, should explore those other alternatives. I am obsessed with this sport, and it was unaware that there was disdain for Joey's win last year. I am looking forward to the day with this fan base is satisfied....with anything. Meanwhile, I can't wait to get to Phoenix.
That is the crux of the problem. It's isn't a credible product with the points system they are using.
Corey Heim above set an all time season win record in the Truck series, and Connor Zilisch has 10 wins in a dominating Xfinity series year and both of them have a 25% chance of winning their respective titles in their series.
DaleJrFan2003
Welcome Winston Cup fans!
Okay.
Truex_rox
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Yep, and almost all of their other results outside of those victories have also been mostly good - elite compared to their opposition, basically warranting championships.
Heim's been a factor in practically every single race.
Zilisch has finished in the top five seventeen races straight since he returned from missing Texas (unless one wants to get really technical in consideration of Kligerman crossing the finish line in Connor's car at Daytona).