They were? This year it is Custer being told save your tires when he was behind the 22 and it's the last lap along with Bowman being told the same thing behind Chastain? Coincidence? Two teams from completely different organizations saying the same thing?
I was referring to last year, since the prior posts had referred to Logano.
Wonder if Moody sends out 4am talking points to them. Never heard so much BS. Can't wait to see what Freddie has to say about talking points during race no DBC.
Lol, no we are surly not. I don't have selective memory. They have been cheating and getting caught or not getting caught for as long as there have been the playoffs. The point is they have a format that is ripe for cheating, it doesn't matter if they get caught or not, it is because there is the opportunity.
Then you'll remember there was cheating before the playoffs, just in different forms.
As you continue to move the goalposts, It's good to remember we are talking about the playoffs. 3 post up says I don't have any Pollyanna dreams that all will be perfect with another points system. But it is almost impossible to find a point system as riddled with opportunities to cheat em up like this one has.
Who can forget "don't pass him Jones"
Well there’s a whole generation of fans that grew up with The Chase and then this playoff system, that was imprinted on them during their formative years as a fan. It’s really all they know. I try to be empathetic in that regard, I mean being a 40 year old now it’s rough seeing things that gave me comfort from when I was a kid change. Change sucks for better or worse imo. I think IF the full season system was reintroduced, over time the playoff folks would grow to like it and for the simple reason, each race would have its own storylines. From when the circus pulls into Daytona in February , it’s “playoffs, playoffs, playoffs!!” Clinching a berth with a win just overshadows everything this sport does. It’s exhausting. A full season format would allow things to breath a bit, let storylines happen organically and the identity of the sport would be based on so many other things instead of “Playoffs!”. The season is such a slog really (it’s felt like that this year for me personally) just going along until the Post Season starts. Yea other sports are like that, but that’s what made nascar unique, it’s race and that week kind of had its own idiosyncrasies with its accompanying storylines. That’s been lost since 2004 each year a version of the post season has marched on.
Cute post, but you know you were ready if there was any hint of manipulation. The podcast big mouths like Harvick were at the ready.
TOU who are fine with the current system are far less passionate than those bitching about the system. We are prepared for change, and then @StandOnIt will get bored again, and tear it down. I will still be going to races, and geeking out over MY Toyotas. You kids have fun. Phoenix in 4 weeks. Can't wait.
I actually just paid for my tickets yesterday for NASCAR’s return to Chicagoland next July. We’ll be rolling 10 deep. And best news is my ticket agent said the race might be a Sunday Night Prime Time race. I’m just as excited about going to races as you are, they’re a good time.
Well, yeah. For people like me, the system has literally ruined the sport in terms of my ability to enjoy it. Ejecting all that stuff is a silver bullet to get me to care again. I haven't watched a Cup race in any format from start to finish since the finale in 2018 and haven't sat and watched a season (or at least more than a couple of races) since the phantom debris caution in the 2016 finale. Those two events completely broke the trust I had in the people running the sport. I spent I think three consecutive years going down for the Cup/Indycar doubleheader at IMS and never saw Cup run once there even when I could get GA tickets for $10 and parking was free; I left early from Xfinity twice. Ending the playoff is literally the last and only hope I have had for NASCAR over the last 20 years of my life. I had assumed until very recently that it was never going to be an option on the table and I'd never get to see a straight up, normal-ass ungimmcked up car race with NASCAR again.
The purpose of crowning a champion is to pick the best talent for the purposes of promoting them as being the best. That is the reason you do it and don't just have a bunch of individual events like we're discussing Grand Prix racing circa 1931. If the system you have doesn't produce individuals labeled as champions who the public believes are the best, then you have a bad and largely illegitimate means of crowning a champion since getting public buy-in is necessary for it to be good.
The president of Nascar, Steve O'Donnell on Jr's podcast yesterday said they are changing the points system. He wants us know that, but nothing is going to happen until the end of this season. I wish they would come up with different point systems and let the fans vote, instead of cramming their best thinking down our throats, here it is, take it or leave it like it has been their practice for years.
My pedantic self notes that changing the points system doesn't necessarily mean changing the championship format too. They could award more point to race winners, toss in a qualifying bonus point, and still keep the 16 car/10 race/four round/winner take all format.
I'm capable of being able to digest both at the same time if it happens. I think if they have paid any attention at all, unless it is a straight 36 race season there is going to be plenty of push back.
There is no satisfying everybody that's for sure. Like Charlie hinted, there is the possibility that they come up with something worse than they have now.
Well, to be fair here. I've seen people mention how Dale's 7 championships are the most impressive, and I've seen people cite the format Petty won some under as means for that. So they are some out there who probably consider those systems to be pretty horrible and maybe not legitimate.
Here's an easy way to discuss the issues of Old NASCAR: Are there people who think David Pearson was better than Richard Petty? Yes. How'd that happen if Richard won so much more? Well....
Exactly. Now for the next part: Why would he have only chosen to compete in four full seasons? I'm asking this rhetorically. We both know why. But at the same time, it sorta matters if we're gonna talk about how legitimate a championship is when the perceived best competitor isn't even interested in competing for the crown (or in the case of 1965, the arguable best competitor is told to kick rocks by NASCAR and spends the year drag racing). In other words, this is a discussion we already have. It will happen again about this era. That's how things go down in the world.
Right. And so it is safe to say that in other eras of the sport, being Cup champion was not nearly as important or desirable and those titles accordingly mean a little less than others. I mean, that's how I've seen it for a long time now. There's just a fundamental difference about discussing history that predates widespread adoption of color television and the series right this second in terms of what kind of emotional response it is going to generate. One is dynamic because it is happening now, the other is merely a discussion of what occurred.
