Enough Is Enough Full Season Championship.

The CooterJohnsonsJuniorsIII Foundation's proposed 36 race point system.

Highlights

One stage only at the halfway point with 10 points for the stage winner, 9 points for second.... 1 point for 10th.
If a driver wins the race and stage they would recieve 100 points.

This point system would always ensure that the first and second place car always earned the most points and the third place car would almost always recieve the third most points.

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Greg said:
The CooterJohnsonsJuniorsIII Foundation's proposed 36 race point system.

Highlights

One stage only at the halfway point with 10 points for the stage winner, 9 points for second.... 1 point for 10th.
If a driver wins the race and stage they would recieve 100 points.

This point system would always ensure that the first and second place car always earned the most points and the third place car would almost always recieve the third most points.

Refer to the image

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I’m on board with this completely, but only if NASCAR announces the format with that exact name in the press release.
 
StandOnIt said:
The president of Nascar, Steve O'Donnell on Jr's podcast yesterday said they are changing the points system. He wants us know that, but nothing is going to happen until the end of this season. I wish they would come up with different point systems and let the fans vote, instead of cramming their best thinking down our throats, here it is, take it or leave it like it has been their practice for years.
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Like a fan vote for the championship?
 
Greg said:
The CooterJohnsonsJuniorsIII Foundation's proposed 36 race point system
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It's a bit top-heavy*. I'll go with it because NASCAR won't cut back to one stage, so the higher top-end points will compensate for the second stage points.

*I likes my wimmens like I likes my point systems.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
It's a bit top-heavy*. I'll go with it because NASCAR won't cut back to one stage, so the higher top-end points will compensate for the second stage points.

*I likes my wimmens like I likes my point systems.
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In hindset it is top heavy. I wanted it to reward 100 points if a driver won and led the most laps, while also preventing stage points from outdoing a poduim finish.
 
hmmm298 said:
Like a fan vote for the championship?
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Well, that's kind of what it is becoming isn't it? SOU or MOU or whatever are screeching, and NASCAR is reacting like always....so we will have a new championship based on a perceived preference.....translated.....if a ChevroRick can't win it, we will change it again until it can.
 
To me, one of the advantages of the Latford system was last place got more than 1 point. I recall it was around 30 or so. With first around 175, last place earned about 17% of first. Under the current system (1 point for last, 40 for first), last place is 2.5% of first. The current system penalizes a last place finish far more than the old one, and that's not even taking stage points into account. Nowadays attrition is less and more cars are running at the end, so having a problem is more likely to result in finishing in the mid-30s.

Three stages but only points for the top 5 - 2, 4, 6, 8, 10. Making gaining a position mean more. (Oh, and only two stages for Trucks and Xfinity; those races are too short to disrupt the flow twice. Drivers can hardly get into a rhythm, and there are usually plenty of cautions in those series anyway.)

Finish first and get 100 points regardless of any stage points earned. Last place gets 20% of first, assuming no stage points earned by last.

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IDK Charlie, you mean every driver gets to compete for positions the whole season?? Blasphemy without game 7 moments.
I was thinking about this last night, it shows to me how bogus game seven moments are in Nascar. When Larson won his Championship, it was of course in the lottery race. It went down to the last pit stop I believe it was in overtime or at least in the closing laps. The pit stop won the race. So game 7 it went down to the last race the last pit stop, the last lap. Nobody talks about it.
Now if that was stick n ball, they would still be talking about that on their 24/7 sports shows. Those guys go year round talking about football and apparently lots of football fans watch the shows, they are everywhere, replay after replay and they are glued watching the TV.. Just spell bound.
Race fans are different, I think maybe the networks and even Nascar are figuring it out...finally.
 
StandOnIt said:
it shows to me how bogus game seven moments are in Nascar.
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What France didn't understand is Game 7 Moments can't be forced. Most '4 of 7' series don't get to a seventh game. The ones that do get that far are special partly because they're rare and don't happen every year. Even some of those seventh games aren't special because they turn out to be forgettable blow-outs.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
What France didn't understand is Game 7 Moments can't be forced. Most '4 of 7' series don't get to a seventh game. The ones that do get that far are special partly because they're rare and don't happen every year. Even some of those seventh games aren't special because they turn out to be forgettable blow-outs.
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After so many years of "cut off" rounds and the constant gerbil Jeff hype (everything is cut off with Burton) I think the fans are suffering burnout. I know I am.
 
My game seven moment would be all the spotters talking about points during the whole (even if they get a warning) race.
 
Revman said:
Sure are...they spend more time bitching than enjoying their sport.
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I can't say. I don't watch anything else other than golf, and I'm not interested enough in that to hang out on its forums. For all I know, race fans may even be more reasonable than those of other sports. I -suspect- they're all pretty much the same, though.
 
I’ll definitely take some modified version of the Latford system over the current format. I don’t like awarding stage points & of course I don’t like stage breaks either but can live with them if I must. It would be fun to go back to bogus caution stoppages for a little while for the sake of variety.

A modified Latford system would increase the enjoyment of the races for me but I don’t think it would significantly alter attendance or viewership. NASCAR has spent the last 30 years alienating its core fan base & those people are either long gone or deceased. IMO NASCAR could improve things greatly by having professional broadcasts & an even application of rules.
 
AlTerego said:
A modified Latford system would increase the enjoyment of the races for me but I don’t think it would significantly alter attendance or viewership.
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I think a simpler system would be easier to explain to casual fans and make it easier for them to get into the series.
 
AlTerego said:
I’ll definitely take some modified version of the Latford system over the current format. I don’t like awarding stage points & of course I don’t like stage breaks either but can live with them if I must. It would be fun to go back to bogus caution stoppages for a little while for the sake of variety.

A modified Latford system would increase the enjoyment of the races for me but I don’t think it would significantly alter attendance or viewership. NASCAR has spent the last 30 years alienating its core fan base & those people are either long gone or deceased. IMO NASCAR could improve things greatly by having professional broadcasts & an even application of rules.
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I'll never be a fan of Nascar deciding to find me a caution, we need a commercial break boys.
I want a points system that a person who is into the Nascar race can at least have a pretty good idea that when a driver wins the race they earn the most points AND a person watching can figure out pretty close how many points a driver gets. It's almost impossible now AND there are times that they don't get the most points for winning and that is confusing.
 
StandOnIt said:
I'll never be a fan of Nascar deciding to find me a caution, we need a commercial break boys.
I want a points system that a person who is into the Nascar race can at least have a pretty good idea that when a driver wins the race they earn the most points AND a person watching can figure out pretty close how many points a driver gets. It's almost impossible now AND there are times that they don't get the most points for winning and that is confusing.
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I wasn’t being serious about bringing back bogus cautions. I’m just a little frustrated with things.
 
AlTerego said:
I wasn’t being serious about bringing back bogus cautions. I’m just a little frustrated with things.
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I believe that the fake cautions got to be so obvious and widespread that Nascar lost tons of legitimacy. Here at R-F during races some posters were calling out it's about time for a caution and yep they would throw the flag. Pretty sure any fan the followed the sport would be thinking the same thing. I believe those were in the Brian France era.
 
StandOnIt said:
Another week of the idiotic display of the current point system when two top 5 drivers suffer way more than one bad points race.

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Keep working...you'll find a system that won't support a Toyota champion...looks like it's going to be tough. What will happen if Bell wins this thing? You will have a very quiet offseason....Win/win.
 
Revman said:
Keep working...you'll find a system that won't support a Toyota champion...looks like it's going to be tough. What will happen if Bell wins this thing? You will have a very quiet offseason....Win/win.
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If you read instead of? You would have read that last year Okie Bell would have won last year and this year he could be in line for two Cup championships in a row. The good thing with this was that you didn't have a clue.
 
StandOnIt said:
If you read instead of? You would have read that last year Okie Bell would have won last year and this year he could be in line for two Cup championships in a row. The good thing with this was that you didn't have a clue.
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Why would I care? It's not the system. I will tell you one thing, Bell is not the best driver this year nor has he had the best year....that is fine with me if he wins the championship because I don't think the championship needs to crown the guy who is the best or had the best year....the champion puts himself in a position to win it by getting to the Round of 4, and if he does what he needs to do, give him the crown. Your little system is designed to crown the best driver and the best season, right? That isn't Bell. It's Denny ****** Hamlin. Question, does your fantasy system take into account Hamlin missing Mexico? Didn't make an allowance for that back in the day, right? Probably should now that we are no longer in Leave it to Beaver days. You keep going with your perfect system. I will be over here enjoying the finish to the season which will include Denny ****** Hamlin racing for the title,
 
This kind of leaked on DBC then Reddit posted it last night and to my knowledge after a quick scan no one has posted it here. Now Kenny is talking about it.


I don’t know. The points reset for me personally has always been the problem, is the problem and will always be the problem. A 32 race season with a 4 race playoff negates the previous 32 weeks of work imo. Like why? NASCAR is so in bed with the playoffs, they just can’t quit their postseason mistress. This is the very definition of having your cake and trying to eat it too.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
This kind of leaked on DBC then Reddit posted it last night and to my knowledge after a quick scan no one has posted it here. Now Kenny is talking about it.


I don’t know. The points reset for me personally has always been the problem, is the problem and will always be the problem. A 32 race season with a 4 race playoff negates the previous 32 weeks of work imo. Like why? NASCAR is so in bed with the playoffs, they just can’t quit their postseason mistress. This is the very definition of having your cake and trying to eat it too.
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More of the same. Fudge up the points, ignore the rest of the field unless they pull a Dillion and wipe out somebodies season is how I see it. IF that is what is going to happen, the only bright spot is the nonsense is only 4 races instead of 10? Ridiculous.
I'm pretty sure this weekend at Dega, anybody besides the playoff cars will be the villains if anything happens in a wreck that takes out a playoff car. All of those guys who are win less are looking to get a win at Dega. Stenhouse, Hocevar, McDowell, RFK, RCR, on and on. They will also be ignored in the winners circle like SVG was while the media will be holding a wake for the playoff drivers who were involved in the big one.
 
Revman said:
that is fine with me if he wins the championship because I don't think the championship needs to crown the guy who is the best or had the best year....the champion puts himself in a position to win it by <snip>
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I'll just cut it off at the usual portion where we start to get back into the "when it really counts" which means none of the races near me count to also interject with, "I do think the championship needs to crown the guy who is the best or had the best year." In fact, further, I won't watch again until they create a championship that crowns the best driver, which is determined by who it was had the best overall year.

You're absolutely right that the fans who are watching and accept the playoffs have significantly less issues with the playoffs but also that's kinda the obvious thing all of us are operating with being the baseline expectation. NASCAR is clearly intending to change this system dramatically because they no longer believe that everyone else (general public to old fans) is accepting of it and they want to boost attendance and viewership. That's the only thing that matters now.
 
virtualbalboa said:
I'll just cut it off at the usual portion where we start to get back into the "when it really counts" which means none of the races near me count to also interject with, "I do think the championship needs to crown the guy who is the best or had the best year." In fact, further, I won't watch again until they create a championship that crowns the best driver, which is determined by who it was had the best overall year.

You're absolutely right that the fans who are watching and accept the playoffs have significantly less issues with the playoffs but also that's kinda the obvious thing all of us are operating with being the baseline expectation. NASCAR is clearly intending to change this system dramatically because they no longer believe that everyone else (general public to old fans) is accepting of it and they want to boost attendance and viewership. That's the only thing that matters now.
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It should all count for the same from the time the green flag falls in Daytona next season to the final checkers in Miami. Every race should count towards the championship. A points reset with however many races left neuters that logic.
 
I would bet you any amount of money that getting rid of the playoffs won’t do crap long term to raise ratings and attendance. You might see a short term spike in interest but the sport has deeper systemic problems than the points system.
 
Naitch said:
I would bet you any amount of money that getting rid of the playoffs won’t do crap long term to raise ratings and attendance. You might see a short term spike in interest but the sport has deeper systemic problems than the points system.
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Okay, say NASCAR implements a full-season format and TV ratings and attendance don't improve. No one is any worse off and NASCAR has eliminated an unnecessary complication.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Okay, say NASCAR implements a full-season format and TV ratings and attendance don't improve. No one is any worse off and NASCAR has eliminated an unnecessary complication.
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10 years with this version except for a year I believe, attendance has been slipping downward. I believe they have to try something and a full 36 race season is what they had that worked before they had the brilliant idea of playoffs.
 
Naitch said:
I would bet you any amount of money that getting rid of the playoffs won’t do crap long term to raise ratings and attendance. You might see a short term spike in interest but the sport has deeper systemic problems than the points system.
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It probably doesn't do anything massive immediately, no. The number of people like me is not that large; maybe a hundred thousand or so strong across the entire country. I should be a rounding error, but NASCAR's viewership has slipped so much in recent years that here in the final run to the title, NASCAR's TV viewership isn't much more than Indycar's now and that 100K might represent a 5-7% increase in viewership for these races. Certainly we are very far from where things were 15 years ago when the Truck series was outdoing Indycar weekly.

That said: they aren't just doing this for me personally or that 100,000 people like me. They're looking for the 329 or so million people in America who have either tried NASCAR and decided they didn't like the flavor the last decade in spite of many efforts for outreach or whom have ignored it to date because they weren't into some aspect of the current version of NASCAR. If those people were really into what NASCAR had been doing, I wouldn't see people ask if the Las Vegas playoff race tickets were only for friends and family of the drivers and F1 (F1! Once so irrelevant Bernie bought time on cable just to have an outlet!) wouldn't have basically drawn even with them.
 
Naitch said:
I would bet you any amount of money that getting rid of the playoffs won’t do crap long term to raise ratings and attendance. You might see a short term spike in interest but the sport has deeper systemic problems than the points system.
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The burden was on the divided regular / post-season structure to change the trend of decreasing late season interest. That experiment has been a resounding failure. Instead the fall-off relative to the rest of the season has become even worse. The burden is not on a traditional full season structure to show immediate improvement. Clearing the all-encompassing playoffs fixation out of the way will in time allow for other promotional strategies to be used, such as a greater emphasis on individual crown jewel events.
 
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