F1: 2024 Australian GP

virtualbalboa said:
Sorry, but this whole "Defensive driving is never OK" stuff is antithetical to racing. Just demand that a slower car move over to faster cars for position. There: "Safe" and in line with what F1 probably wants to claim to be, which is less a motor race and test of driver skill and purely a branding exercise as to who's car is best with the driver being largely incidental. I'm not watching anymore anyhow, so I guess I wouldn't miss out on people getting their wet dream of piles of uncontested passing.
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When defensive driving results in an accident it's time to dial it back.

And they did that when Ben Sulayem came in. Drivers were chopping, blocking and swerving, all while crashing into each other on the straight, and suddenly, in 2022 all that stopped. It stopped so convincingly that I am sure the FIA probably laid it out at the first driver's meeting of 2022.

Even Mags hasn't wrecked someone on the straight in a while, so something in the rules and the enforcement changed. Ben Sukayem came in right after the Abu Dabi mess and said he was going to clean it all up. Looks like the driving standards we updated judging from the results.

As far as the Alonso thing, from George's car it did not look that awful, but if you listen to Alonso's engine you have to wonder what he was doing. Alonso isn't known for dirty driving, so I have no explanation.
 
Doc Austin said:
When defensive driving results in an accident it's time to dial it back.

And they did that when Ben Sulayem came in. Drivers were chopping, blocking and swerving, all while crashing into each other on the straight, and suddenly, in 2022 all that stopped. It stopped so convincingly that I am sure the FIA probably laid it out at the first driver's meeting of 2022.

Even Mags hasn't wrecked someone on the straight in a while, so something in the rules and the enforcement changed. Ben Sukayem came in right after the Abu Dabi mess and said he was going to clean it all up. Looks like the driving standards we updated judging from the results.

As far as the Alonso thing, from George's car it did not look that awful, but if you listen to Alonso's engine you have to wonder what he was doing. Alonso isn't known for dirty driving, so I have no explanation.
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Everyone understands that blocking or forcing cars off the road or whatever is wrong. Feathering the throttle to kill a guy's run? If you did that in short track racing, there would be no one in the stands by week 3 of the experiment.

That Russell crashed is obviously beyond dispute but there is nothing good about setting a precedent where the trailing car loses control and the guy ahead of him can be penalized for running the racing line.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Everyone understands that blocking or forcing cars off the road or whatever is wrong.
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They didn't before. Check out Mags/Leclerc at Suzuka or Max/Botas Monza. All that stopped right overnight between 2021 and 2022. The sporting etiquette changed so fast so drastically I am sure the FIA tightened things up behind the scenes.

Today's F1 has actually been the cleanest I've seen since Prost and Senna.
Feathering the throttle to kill a guy's run?
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Just doesn't seem very sporting to use surprise and deception at those speeds. As we just saw, it's not that safe either.

Listening to Alonso's engine, I didn't know what he was doing. It would have made more sense to brake once a bit earlier (not 300m), settle the car and get on the power earlier. Alonso went off the throttle, got back on it and then braked again. Didn't make sense. You world not normally approach a corner like that, and it simply caught George out.
virtualbalboa said:
That Russell crashed is obviously beyond dispute but there is nothing good about setting a precedent where the trailing car loses control and the guy ahead of him can be penalized for running the racing line.
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The FIA was probably right to cite him for erratic driving, because it was something no one would expect, and not exactly the norm.

Russel biffed it on his own. I can understand it though. Alonso caught him off guard because you would never expect that sort of thing. Looking at both in car cameras, it all happened so lightning fast I wouldn't want to make a call.

There's a little irony in this because Alonso had a nasty crash at that exact same place when the guy in front was erratic.
 
A lead car taking away the follower's air is a totally common tactic.That doesn't make it an illegal move. Is the FIA more pissed because it showed how aero dependent these cars really are? All of this was on a redesigned Australian track for the first time to make it even faster. I can't help but think F1 creates some of this on their own. He didn't admit fault. He admitted to the move he made, and the reasoning behind it: To get a better exit in order to escape George's DRS. Which is entirely justifiable. The fact that George was close enough to where the dirty air took away George's grip is a consequence. This is completely crazy to penalize a driver because they decided to do something different with entry and exit cornering. It is up to the driver behind to be more aware of things. Now if he was trying to brake check him that is a different discussion all together and would deserve a penalty and more. But just because he decided to take a different approach with the corner that is his prerogative. The over reaching on this is crazy. George is the same driver who drove himself into an outside wall at Vegas while not paying attention. Today he wasn't thinking on his toes and got outfoxed by Alonso. Total BS!!

PS: First race I've watched in over 30 plus years to the end. On early. 😂
 
FLRacingFan said:
He has always been a politician and a bit dirty, this is the same guy who once brake tested a guy in FP1 after passing him on the front straight.
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People have an unexplained hard on for this guy. The length people will go to justify his actions is a little more than insane.

Alonso is a ****head on track with his antics. Like you said, guy is overflowing with talent but he also feels the need to pull stunts like these. It’s like a Saul Goodman complex.

Good but can’t stay away from shady stuff. Someone already compiled a video of Alonso brake checking drivers and sending them to a black dimension.
 
Do a lot of defenses involve braking, downshifting, accelerating, upshifting, braking again, as much as 30 MPH below typical entry speed? Alonso got called for erratic driving, which it was. It was not anywhere in the realm of normal defense. It would be even worse for racing if drivers felt compelled to keep an even bigger buffer to the car in front in case of tactical braking games.
 
Reck said:
People have an unexplained hard on for this guy. The length people will go to justify his actions is a little more than insane.
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Welcome to the internet!
Reck said:
Alonso is a ****head on track with his antics. Like you said, guy is overflowing with talent but he also feels the need to pull stunts like these.
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I need to see it a few more times before I make up my mind, but from Alonso's in car it looked subtle. From George's car it looked insane. Hard make up my mind when I see two completely different pictures.

The dirtiest drivers always seem to be the ones who don't need to do it. That's the maddening part.

I guess after Prost/Senna (twice), Schumacher/Hill, Schumacher/Villeneuve, Mags/Leclerc and on and on, we're desensitized to less than sporting driving.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Do a lot of defenses involve braking, downshifting, accelerating, upshifting, braking again, as much as 30 MPH below typical entry speed?
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It was that much? Like I say, from Alonso's in car camera, it looked pretty subtle. If it was 30mph, that's qualifies as erratic.

It would be even worse for racing if drivers felt compelled to keep an even bigger buffer to the car in front in case of tactical braking games.
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You can't race someone you can't trust. You can't trust someone who uses surprise and deception as a weapon.
 
Let's get back to maximizing exit speed. In Alan Johnson's "Driving In Competition," it describes three different types of corners: leading onto the straight, leading into a corner, and corners leading into corners. Straight forward stuff.

Leading onto the straight is the most important to get right because any advantage you can get there you carry all the way down that straight. Here you always go for the max exit speed, even if you have to sacrifice entry speed. With the being the case, Alonso's explanation doesn't hold up. He should have been maximizing exit speed for the entire weekend.

I still have not formed an opinion. It's too bizarre to process.
 
Btw, Alonso also lied about having a throttle issue. He made no mentioned of it in his sterwards interview. It was all a show to cover what he did.
 
Reck said:
People have an unexplained hard on for this guy. The length people will go to justify his actions is a little more than insane.

Alonso is a ****head on track with his antics. Like you said, guy is overflowing with talent but he also feels the need to pull stunts like these. It’s like a Saul Goodman complex.

Good but can’t stay away from shady stuff. Someone already compiled a video of Alonso brake checking drivers and sending them to a black dimension.
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I was gonna propose a semi-rebuttal to your assessment of Alonso, but then I read the bolded portion and it kinda brought a wry smile to my face. Well said. I think the whole infatuation people have with him is that they see some instances of him pulling borderline maneuvers and making them work, getting away with them, and then you get fed the “he’s a racecraft wizard, he does more with less, he should be at least a five-time world champion” trope… the former of these three common observations is true to a fault, because of what you’re explaining. I’d liken him to Jason Plato of the BTCC a bit, or also a more cunning and calculated version of our own Ross Chastain. Man likes his loopholes.
 
My, how times have changed, just a few years ago Fred was the darling of the people because he came over to run the 500. Why the change, Media?
 
Doc Austin said:
It was that much? Like I say, from Alonso's in car camera, it looked pretty subtle. If it was 30mph, that's qualifies as erratic.
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I tried to screencap these as close as possible relative to the gap in the barrier. Essentially a 35 MPH difference to the lap before at the same spot on the track.

There is defensive driving, and then there is slowing your car to NASCAR Truck Series backmarker speeds to throw off the competition.

IMG_2029.jpeg


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Doc Austin said:
Must have posted the wrong link. Try this one:

www.planetf1.com

Martin Brundle scoffs at Alonso's 'saintly halo' after 'same playbook' Europe 2003

Martin Brundle says Fernando Alonso used "the same playbook" on George Russell in Australia as he did with David Coulthard in 2003.
www.planetf1.com www.planetf1.com
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Alonso fans are kind of scary. They’re like Trump supporters. The filth and nasty comments coming in Russell’s direction are just disgusting. To the point even Lance Stroll is catching strays.

They think they’re not appealing so that Lance gets to keep his 6th place and be ahead of Alonso. lol
 
rd45usa said:
My, how times have changed, just a few years ago Fred was the darling of the people because he came over to run the 500. Why the change, Media?
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He’s closer to the front again. 😛
 
donthaveanickname said:
The fear in George's voice is for real.
I don't understand why spotter stands aren't a thing outside of North America.
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I forget what it was in reference to, but Jenson came back from racing Cup at COTA last year to do Aus GP commentary a week later and something happened that triggered him to discuss never having a spotter before the previous week and the benefits of it.
 
donthaveanickname said:
The fear in George's voice is for real.
I don't understand why spotter stands aren't a thing outside of North America.
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Looking back at the last two fatalities both were stationary cars hit by cars at speed. I don't blame him a bit for being frightened.

Here's my favorite post-crash radio bit:



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Russell: I was actually looking at the steering wheel making a switch change in the street, which we all do across the lap and when I looked up, I was in Fernando’s gearbox and it was sort of too late and then next thing I’m in the wall.
www.planetf1.com

George Russell jokes about Fernando Alonso adding insult to injury

Fernando Alonso braking on the straight would've opened a "can of worms" had it gone unpunished, says George Russell.
www.planetf1.com www.planetf1.com
 
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