F1 : US Grand Prix

Riciardo can almost smell that second Mercedes ride.
 
Bottas, that wasn't the car you're supposed to race hard...
 
FLRacingFan said:
Is he still running experimental 2018 stuff? He's offered minimal resistance to Hamilton recently. Making Rosberg look even better.
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I dont think so?

He was looking pretty racy throughout the weekend. Laying a huge goose egg here though.

Doing himself no favor for next year. Car might be too quick for him
 
FLRacingFan said:
Is he still running experimental 2018 stuff? He's offered minimal resistance to Hamilton recently. Making Rosberg look even better.
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I wonder about this too. He was much closer to Hamilton in the first half of the season. I think Rosberg is a superior driver to Bottas, but I also think the team is treating him differently. He isn't getting that much worse on his own with more seat time.
 
Verstappen is a speed demon.

Dont like the little bitch but **** me if he's not a talented kid.
 
So the stewards wait until the end of the race to start enforcing track limits?

That's something you establish before the race and enforce throughout the race. Not on a whim.

What a joke. EVERYONE abuses track limits at COTA. You want drivers to stay on the track, don't have acres of runoff.
 
Kiante said:
Its what the track is designed for.

I know you still hate it for everything else other than F1.
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Yeah anything heavier still doesn't work IMO. IMSA, PWC, WEC, Supercars. You name it. F1 and MotoGP work though.

I'm even skeptical of IndyCar racing there.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Yeah anything heavier still doesn't work IMO. IMSA, PWC, WEC, Supercars. You name it. F1 and MotoGP work though.

I'm even skeptical of IndyCar racing there.
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I think with the new package, the racing would be pretty good.

Now if it was still the DW-12, I would be skeptical.
 
F1 is boring as hell now. Mercedes won the makers again! Shocker. Another Mercedes driver is gonna win drivers. Shocker.
 
Best seats in the house.
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FLRacingFan said:
So the stewards wait until the end of the race to start enforcing track limits?

That's something you establish before the race and enforce throughout the race. Not on a whim.

What a joke. EVERYONE abuses track limits at COTA. You want drivers to stay on the track, don't have acres of runoff.
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I wondered what this was about when I read this yesterday. Turns out I know why now.

Seems very unfair. Guys were doing it all weekend and race. The FIA doesn't even try to hide their agenda.
 
Hated missing the race while hosting a family party which was fun. So I have only seen
snippets here and there of replays.

Very happy for a good showing by Hartley. Glad Ferrari put in a good weekend of effort.
Great moves by Verstapen . These track limits need to be thrown out the window at COTA.
Let them go anywhere at their own risk , same rule for everyone.
 
Reck said:
I wondered what this was about when I read this yesterday. Turns out I know why now.

Seems very unfair. Guys were doing it all weekend and race. The FIA doesn't even try to hide their agenda.
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At COTA you have to take a stance before the weekend just because literally the whole property is paved over. What counts as exceeding track limits, what counts as gaining an advantage, how is it going to be policed. When IMSA raced there they said "you know what, we have no way of policing the entire field so feel free to use all of the tarmac that's available!"

So you got this! And everyone was fine with it:

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WEC said "We're going to have track limits!" Two warnings and then after that you're penalized.

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Now PWC kinda ****** it up because they're PWC. They said "Track limits!" Two exceptions and then after that you're penalized. Third infraction gets a bad sportsmanship flag. Fourth infraction gets a drive-through. Except, we're not going to tell you over the radio when you've been dinged and you're not going to be able to see over timing & scoring where you did it. Hokay. And everyone in the paddock hated it.

F1's stewards never established anything besides "don't gain an advantage" which is just horribly vague, and they never policed anyways. You don't think people ran over the track limits during qualifying to lay down a quicker time? You don't think anyone else tried to pass or gain time during the race by doing it?

In fact, you could even argue Max was forced off of the track by Kimi.



What about Kimi abusing track limits to stay ahead of Max?

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What about Vettel running wide on the first turn to seal the Hamilton pass?

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I see your point.

If the infraction is you cant have all 4 wheels on the red stripes, then clearly and obviously all those guys in the picture did just that.

But what I heard them say was that Verstappen did it too many times which I found very convinient and a weak. That was their out.
 
The issue was gaining a position while doing it. If it wasn’t a pass, no time penalty.

I hated hearing about it after that awesome run but, you really can’t have a guy overtake another by way of getting all 4 wheels over the white line.
 
Put in walls where the curbs are and the policing of track limits is instant, consistent, and non appealable.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
There are other series that run at CotA that aren't as anal about where you run.
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Desert truck racing?

If there had been grass on the inside of that turn Verstappen would have had at least two wheels off. If he made it, jolly good for him, but if he didn't that's the other side of taking the risk. There is no risk any more. You can get it completely wrong and just drive back on the track like nothing happened. The only consequence is if the officials see it and if they want to turn the blind eye or not.

I'de like to see track limits mean that you have just run out of track. Like limits are supposed to be limits, right? Put grass where the track isn't, and let the drivers deal with it. You either make the turn or you don't. If you crash, tough. Formula One isn't supposed to be easy.
 
Curbs were not intended to be driven on in the beginning. As time progressed they were widened, and smoothed, now they are part of the racing surface, and they are supposed to be driven on. All the paved runoff areas are there to protect the drivers from getting hurt. That's fine. I also think that a driver should incur some penalty for going off the track. I liked the gravel, and sand traps, but they put furrows in them, that sometimes caused the cars to get airborne. It seems that tire stacks are still most effective, but they need to be anchored to the ground, and each other. It used to be if you went off the track, your day was pretty much over, if not your life. I don't want to return to that, but going off track should cost a driver something.
 
Put grass, astroturf, tungsten, you name it, on the side of the track. Don't paint them. Not every track needs to be Monaco but you need to have something out there. Race around a parking lot? Don't be surprised when drivers take advantage of all the tarmac. There oughta be track limits but these modern circuits make a mockery out of them. They're freaking ball-and-strike calls. Bottas is another who got away with it.
 
Doc Austin said:
Desert truck racing?

If there had been grass on the inside of that turn Verstappen would have had at least two wheels off. If he made it, jolly good for him, but if he didn't that's the other side of taking the risk. There is no risk any more. You can get it completely wrong and just drive back on the track like nothing happened. The only consequence is if the officials see it and if they want to turn the blind eye or not.

I'de like to see track limits mean that you have just run out of track. Like limits are supposed to be limits, right? Put grass where the track isn't, and let the drivers deal with it. You either make the turn or you don't. If you crash, tough. Formula One isn't supposed to be easy.
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I'm only pointing out why a wall in that area would possibly cause other series to run elsewhere.

Me, I don't care where they run - apron, grass, curb, run-off, turf, through the puddles - as long as it isn't explicitly against the rules. In this case, it WAS against the rules, but other series with different rules use the track too.

Wanna modify tracks so going off course is a disadvantage? I'm fine with that too, as long as it's the same for all participants in the race. That's between the track and the sanctioning bodies.
 
Why even define track limits? Let them run where they can. Natural limits will enforce themselves. The curbs could be made to discourage their use.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'm only pointing out why a wall in that area would possibly cause other series to run elsewhere
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I don't really want the wall right up against the edge of the track. That would be crazy, though I can point to thousands of examples over the years where you could hit a tree or a building or even parked cars. It used to be disastrous to run off the road, but now you only get a penalty if the stewards are paying attention......or if you pass a red car.

I don't want the drivers to be getting killed every other weekend, but all the pavement and run off has made Formula One so safe it's not really even a sport any more. It's become a technical exercise. Racing was dangerous as hell when I was doing it, and that's the way everyone liked it. We were thrill seekers and had no time for anything that was watered down or sanitized to the point that anyone could do it.

You know why we didn't have many ride buyers in Formula One in the early seventies? It was too dangerous for people who didn't have the talent, and they either figured that out for themselves or they got themselves killed. Personally when I got to a certain career point I did not want to take that kind of risk any more and that was the end of it. Today I could probably drive until I was 80 because there is simply very little risk at all.

Me, I don't care where they run - apron, grass, curb, run-off, turf, through the puddles - as long as it isn't explicitly against the rules
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When you have a car width curb on both the inside and outside of the turns, you effectively widened the racing surface two by car widths. Then they brag about the faster lap times when it's all a mirage. It's just fake, which is really Formula One's problem. Too much of it is fake DRS passes, fake mandatory "option" tires, and fake track "limits" that aren't really limits. Next year they are keeping the fin strictly because the teams want to keep the advertising space. It's hard to get any more fake than that, but I am sure F1 will find a way. They always do.

I suppose I am looking at it strictly from a purist's standpoint. I prefer the consequences of driving off the road to be self enforcing. That eliminates judgment calls and silly controversies.
 
Zerkfitting said:
Why even define track limits? Let them run where they can. Natural limits will enforce themselves.
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There are no natural limits when the paved runoffs are so wide.

The curbs could be made to discourage their use.
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Grass has so little grip that it certainly discourages dropping a wheel off. I say ditch the curbs and make the drivers actually stray on the road.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
You and I are approaching the sport from incompatible positions.
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Yeah, I'm out as well. Thrill seekers? Daredevils? That's not a Racer's mindset. Competition is a Racer's thing. Thrill seekers are the whack jobs in the bleachers that give racing a bad reputation among civilians. And a few poseurs hoping to impress somebody later over ****tails. I'm done.
 
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