field fillers

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smack500

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What do you think about field fillers? Are they a problem at tracks like this, and if so are they a big enough problem where something should be done about them?

(I broung this up because of jeff Gordons comments today)
 
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DARLINGTON, S.C. -- Jeff Gordon experienced what he considered one of the hardest hits of his racing career Sunday at Darlington Raceway.

Gordon plowed headfirst into Andy Hillenburg's spun out car just 28 laps into Sunday's Carolina Dodge Dealers 400.
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Gordon hit the No. 80 of Andy Hillenburg on Lap 28.
Hillenburg was running well off the pace, and had already been lapped when Tony Stewart tapped him entering Turn 2 on Lap 28. Hillenburg spun, and came to rest sideways in the track's high racing lane, and was stationed there as Gordon entered the corner.

Gordon's spotter advised him to go low, but Elliott Sadler occupied that groove. Forced high with no alternative, Gordon experienced the hardest head-on collision of his career.

"I'm OK. I'm gonna be pretty sore tomorrow," said Gordon, a six-time Darlington winner who finished 41st Sunday. "I haven't taken a hit like that, possibly ever, and certainly not a head-on shot."

Though sore, Gordon escaped virtually unscathed.

"The HANS device did its job, thankfully. The belts did their job," Gordon said. "It's just unfortunate. I don't know what happened with Andy getting spun, but I'll tell you what, there's a bunch of cars out there than don't belong. They're way off the pace and in the way."

Non-competitive "field-fillers" have been a hot topic all year. Often, these under-funded teams are forced to park early after being deemed incapable of reaching the required speed.

Gordon's criticism wasn't aimed at Hillenburg, rather the fact that slow cars are allowed to compete in the first place.





"As long as they're allowed to go out there and run those speeds, then by all means they should. It's not against them," Gordon said. "There are cars out there that aren't up to the speed they need to be (in order) to be in this series."

Many believe NASCAR is bound contractually with their television partners to field 43 cars, but sanctioning body vice president George Pyne has denied that in recent weeks.

Gordon says he'd much rather see quality over quantity.

"It's been an issue. I think you've got to be up to a certain speed," Gordon said. "This is the Nextel Cup Series, man. This is the best of the best, and we don't need to have cars out there just making a qualifying attempt and making the race.

"Everyone's caught up on this 43 cars. I don't care if there's 43 cars. I don't know if the people in the stands really care if it's 43 cars. I think we need cars out there that are competitive, that (are) out there competing for positions. Not just riding around."

Hillenburg admitted he wasn't up to par Sunday

"We've just got to go back and make our car faster to be able to keep up with these guys," Hillenburg said. "This is a big-boys league and the toughest racing there ever was, and ever will be. We've got to go back and build us a little bit faster car and be the faster car instead of the slower car.

"I feel bad for Jeff and all his fans. I was sideways on the racetrack. Jeff just didn't have anywhere to go. I feel bad for that, but we'll be back, and we'll be back with a faster car."

Gordon said his day could have ended even earlier.

"We about had several wrecks before that, and I came on the radio and asked if NASCAR could take some guys off the track, not just because they're slow, but because they're in the way," Gordon said.

"This is a narrow, tight racetrack. It's hard enough just to race guys at speed. That was a heavy hit."
 
Jeff is exactly right. These cars are very, very dangerous. NASCAR needs to do something, but as usual they won't. :(
 
I do think there needs to be a minimum speed, and it enforced. I agree if 43 cars don't qualify with that minimum speed, then only run as many as do. :angry:
 
I think the field fillers need to be alittle more respectful to the top dogs. If you've got a top dog up your......., or about to come up your............then they need to get out of their way.
 
Would it matter to you if there were only 35 care out there who were capable of doing a safe speed?

It wouldn't bother me any. ;)
 
It wouldn't bother me 4X, I think we'd see better racing and wouldn't be lapping cars in 8 laps.
 
Better set this thread down in history, everyone is agreeing!! LOL
 
Be careful what you ask for...

Under that scenario, Michael Waltrip would have been headed home since he failed to post a speed.
 
I think that would be an excellent scenerio TonyB.
Just like NHRA it don't matter who you are if you don't quaify fast enough you go home.
 
Originally posted by TonyB@Mar 21 2004, 11:04 PM
Be careful what you ask for...

Under that scenario, Michael Waltrip would have been headed home since he failed to post a speed.
and your point? Just kidding :p

I really like Kyle Petty, Todd Bodine and some of the other guys who occasionally would be bumped. But in all honesty, if you can't get within 5 mph or so of the pack you need to not be out there.

I'm not talking about a team that doesn't have a good qualifying run, but is still within 5 mph or so. But when guys are 14 mph off of the pace like the guy who took Jeff out of today's race, that is rediculous.
 
All those thoughts and idea sound good. However, if NASCAR did as some are suggesting, then how would anyone without major bucks get into the sport? We'd be down to about 6 or 7 teams and then we would be complaining about only money wins races. Field fillers have been around forever..........they are the under funded teams trying to get a break or get enough to be competitive. Lock them out, then the sport goes sour and dies. :( Darlington is a very narrow, slipperly track that just got narrower with the new SAFER barrier......it always was hard to get out of the way and it's even harder now. Perhaps the reason some cars were being lapped every 8 or so laps is because they were "getting out of the way". You can't just make a rule that would deny the small guys the chance to race..........they make inspection and qualify (or use provisionals if they have them) let them race. It's really unfortunate what happened to Jeffy and Tony but it's also unfortunate what happened to Matt. It's racing in the big leagues..........and, as much as I like Jeffy, he was whining and he should be above that at this level of the sport.
 
Originally posted by dragonlady424@Mar 21 2004, 02:59 PM
Better set this thread down in history, everyone is agreeing!! LOL
I think you spoke too soon!! :cheers: :cheers:
 
LOL, TonyB, let Mikey go home. I sure wouldn't miss him anymore.
Used to kinda like the guy, but he has sure changed a lot.
That being neither here nor there, , I say if you don't qually on speed, ya just don't race.
And yes, if there are only 36 nearly equal cars out there, so be it.
Will prolly be a great piece of racin too.
:cheers: :p :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by dragonlady424@Mar 21 2004, 10:59 PM
Better set this thread down in history, everyone is agreeing!! LOL
Well they were until DE joined in :rolleyes:

DE, you do have a point. But this crap is getting old. They had a guy who started the race WITHOUT A DAMN PIT CREW!!! a few weeks ago. Where will this end?
 
I understand your points DEW, but I'm going to have to disagree with ya here. Save a little more and get a good motor first. If it ain't the motor then they don't need to be out there cause they're a danger to others as well as themselves.
 
Originally posted by 4xchampncountin@Mar 21 2004, 03:13 PM
They had a guy who started the race WITHOUT A DAMN PIT CREW!!! a few weeks ago. Where will this end?
I believe that was addressed by Jim Hunter............I doubt that will happen again! :)
 
ROTFL!!!!!!! Mighta known, DE.
But if ya look at the qually stats, when ya have cars doin
15MPH or so less than the field, ya have a hazardous condition for the hi-rollers.
I unnerstan the $$$ aspect, but then let's try to handicap NASCAR
just like we do the hosses at the tracks. LOL
 
I think this is an issue but a small one.

A bigger problem is cars that are involved in wrecks, then they try to repair them so they can come back out and get points. I have seen nothing but problems from this.
 
If you were to set a rule though I think 5mph would be a bit much. Make it like 10mph.

For ex look at this weeks qualifying, the top 10 had speeds of 170-171. Yet look at these speeds
41 #172 Kirk Shelmerdine Ford TUCSON 152.735 32.197 -3.559
42 #02 Andy Belmont Pontiac Continental Fire & Safety 156.472 31.428 -2.790
43 #280 Andy Hillenburg Ford Commercial Truck & Trailer 151.297 32.503 -3.865

lets see cars going 151 and cars going 171 hmmm... and this same thing goes on at martinsville and bristol.

these guys didnt even stand a chance to get into the top 30, the only break they could hope for is that a big one occurs and they miss it.
 
I just checked, and all the way thru 37th place would've fallen in the 5mph

These are the ones that were considerably slower and should've gone home.

38 #89 Morgan Shepherd Dodge Voyles/Carter's Royal Dispos-all 164.303 29.930 -1.292

Provisional
38 #15 Michael Waltrip Chevrolet NAPA Auto Parts - - -
39 #09 Joe Ruttman Dodge Miccosukee Gaming & Resorts 160.397 30.659 -2.021
41 #172 Kirk Shelmerdine Ford TUCSON 152.735 32.197 -3.559
42 #02 Andy Belmont Pontiac Continental Fire & Safety 156.472 31.428 -2.790
43 #280 Andy Hillenburg Ford Commercial Truck & Trailer 151.297 32.503 -3.865

Did not Qualify
44 #194 Stanton Barrett Chevrolet Bojangles/AmericInn 163.647 30.050 -1.412

Andy was 20 mph slower than the fast cars and 15mph slower than 37th
 
Many good points made here, but I have to agree that a minimum qualifying speed is needed. Let those who are in the top tier in standings use a provisional in the event of a wreck or engine problems during qualifying and send the slow cars away.
They wanna race??? try another series!
 
IF nascar were to implement a rule like this, someone like micheal should be givin a chance to re qualify or something. If he would have finished qualifying he would have definatly made the 5mph limit.
 
And what happens when Junior blows an engine in practice and isn't able to post a speed because he can't get it changed in time?

It would be a much bigger problem for NASCAR if the big names weren't in the races than to have a few names no one has ever heard of in the field.

I really didn't see the field fillers creating a problem today. I saw impatient drivers creating a problem all over the place.
 
Obviously there needs to be provisionals for accomplished teams. If I drove 500 miles, bought tickets and everything else ans then Jeff didn't race I would be beyond pizzed off.

What I'm talking about, and I'm sure most would agree, are the teams that just can't cut it but are allowed to run a few very slow laps to collect money for starting the race.
 
I agree with DEW on the fact that lower budget teams have always been a part of cup racing. but on the other hand it seems kinda dangerous to have cars running so slow.
I have read stories about the late great Dale Earnhardt in the seventies, not as a feild filler, but as a racer ( probably underfunded ) who just wanted a chance to race in the big leagues. everyone has to start somewhere. In those early years Dale wasn't exactly running up front but everyone who knows this sport knows he was giving 150 percent. not just riding around for 10 or 20 laps to collect a check.
Maybe they need to show a minimum speed in practice laps in order to qualify or even take a provisional.
Just my opinion
 
Originally posted by TonyB@Mar 21 2004, 05:49 PM
I really didn't see the field fillers creating a problem today. I saw impatient drivers creating a problem all over the place.
I agree with Tony here...

I saw the incident more as Tony S. not being patient enought to use the brakes.

Sure I might 'slow' him down, sure he might lose a spot...but at what cost...he's just lucky (and probably proud of the fact) that it was Jeff who was wrecked, and not him.

I think a better solution is let 43 cars qualify.

Then get that black flag ready and USE IT after about 20 laps or so if you can't keep a pace. That gives the smalls a REAL chance to compete for a while.

That also would address the fixer-uppers that run around.

:cheers:
 
But that would mean that if JR wrecked or blew an engine then he couldn't race???
 
Top notch, big name drivers and teams have been avoiding "field fillers" for years. Y'all talk about NASCAR needing to do something yet when they do do something (like the racing back to the flag during cautions) you holler. Getting on pit road, you holler. Putting up SAFER barriers you cheer until they put one up at Darlington. Joe Ruttman pulled a real bone headed stunt a few weeks ago............now it's "NASCAR needs to put in a new rule". What about Carl Long? Very underfunded and often referred to as a "field filler"........but we love him. Then does anyone remember how pitiful Richard Petty ran the last few years before he retired? If it weren't for provisionals he would have not raced at all the last couple years.......same with DW. You're asking for a rule that would virtually assure only very well funded and very proficient (substitute "experienced") drivers would be able to race. We NASCAR fans sneer at F1 for that attitude.......yet we are asking to be just like that series!
 
There are some talented drivers in those under funded cars. Everyone can't drive for DEI, RCR, Everham or the Cat in the Hat.
 
Originally posted by Gollum@Mar 21 2004, 09:39 PM
There are some talented drivers in those under funded cars. Everyone can't drive for DEI, RCR, Everham or the Cat in the Hat.
Gollum :wub:, you forgot HMS
 
Originally posted by TonyB@Mar 21 2004, 06:49 PM


I really didn't see the field fillers creating a problem today. I saw impatient drivers creating a problem all over the place.
Exactly. This is a byproduct of guys stepping right into top equipment without working their way up through the ranks. Anyone else notice that the two drivers who were the most vocal about it would never have an idea what it's like to be in Hillenberg's shoes? Whiny little punks. If you can't miss a guy going 10 mph slower than you, why isn't anyone questioning your abilities? Someone gets in your way, and they have had ample opportunity to move and won't, boot 'em. Spinning someone as soon as you reach them is different. I really believed Tony had grown up a little. Boy was I wrong.

And I want to hear zero crying out of Jeff Gordon. As many guys as he put in the wall last year alone, he has nothing to say.
 
I just dont see what kind of break these drivers expect to get, unless alot of people wreck and there not involved they dont stand a chance to get a top 30 finish. if your going 10 - 20 mph less then the rest of the field your just going to be lapped over and over all day long.
 
Originally posted by smack500@Mar 22 2004, 10:46 AM
I just dont see what kind of break these drivers expect to get, unless alot of people wreck and there not involved they dont stand a chance to get a top 30 finish. if your going 10 - 20 mph less then the rest of the field your just going to be lapped over and over all day long.
To some people that doesn't matter, they are in the show. Just think what a couple of decent runs could do for them. They get noticed in a low budget car and before you know it they are in a top notch ride. It's all about dreams and they are doing something you and I can only dream about.
 
I have a question, and this is sincere. Should a PROFFESIONAL RACE CAR DRIVER be able to get his car around a slower car without "punting" to move him?

I truly believe that a man should be able to use skill to get by a slower car and not need them to "move over" and let the faster car pass. All day yesterday the commentators said "you don't want to race the other cars" and I began to wonder why they were all there.

If a driver has the faster car, and the better skill, there should not be a major problem passing a car that is 20 mph slower. when I hear drivers complain that another car won't move over I have to wonder just how much skill they actually have.

Granted, a slow car will hold up a faster car if he is in the same lane, but hey, the cars do have brakes don't they? the Drivers do have eyes don't they? they even have spotters on the roof to tell them what is happening in front of them. Just seems like a lot of nonsense to me due to the impatience and immaturity of some of the drivers. And as I saw it yesterday the car that took out Jeffy was not a slow car, he finished 17th.
 
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