Fixing Attendance

Other ethnically diverse drivers have sponsorship.
IMO, it is about performance, not ethnicity.
@Thegeneral23 If Bubba have 2 or 3 Xfin wins do you think he’d be more marketable?
 
BobbyFord said:
Other ethnically diverse drivers have sponsorship.
IMO, it is about performance, not ethnicity.
@Thegeneral23 If Bubba have 2 or 3 Xfin wins do you think he’d be more marketable?
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Yes i do , but ur missing the point it's others that got the chance that hasn't deserved It , just give this kid a chance
 
Thegeneral23 said:
Yes i do , but ur missing the point it's others that got the chance that hasn't deserved It , just give this kid a chance
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He had a chance at RFR with factory sponsorship. Maybe he was moved up too quickly. I just don’t see this as a racial issue.
Hell, Suarez couldn’t even speak English when he got here.
 
Towmater said:
Great post!

NASCAR has the same problem that Harley Davidson has found itself, e.g., loss of popularity and a shrinking pool of end users. Both have an image that is tied to a certain group. That image used to be cool and sought after. Now it isn't and is seen as your father or grandfather's thing. Young people don't want to be associated with your dad's or grandfather's thing. Newer generations aren't interested in vehicles the way the generation before them used to be. Also, they are saddled with huge amounts of debt when they get out of college. They don't have a large expendable incomes to throw at a sport that they don't have an interest in or they look down upon.

NASCAR is attempting to pivot into the future by listening to Monster. Any changes that NASCAR attempts is being met with a huge backlash by the old guys who currently populate the stands/fan base. It is a catch 22 position. Unfortunately for NASCAR they should have started to pivot 10 or 12 years ago. They are in a catch up position which is reactive.

After this year their will be an even smaller pool of diverse drivers within the sport. That won't grow the fan base as it will be seen by many as being noninclusive. If that perception permeates into our societies culture further than it already has you will see even less companies being interested in being affiliated with the sport.


There isn't a magic bullet solution to the issues that NASCAR finds itself. If it digs itself out is will be after the sport goes through a very rough time.
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The Oldsmobile division used to sell a million units a year for GM back in the 1980's and then one day in Lansing they had an epiphany as to why its sales circled the drain. Its buyers had become old and started dying off and Olds became a shell of its former self. It made a very serious attempt to entice younger buyers and even had the tagline "This is not your father's Oldsmobile" in its advertising but it was too little too late for the brand as the damage had been done and Olds has been gone for close to 15 years now.

The parallels between Olds and Nascar are striking as they both were stuck with a bunch of old white guys as customers and they both tried a bunch of different gimmicks in order to keep things going. At one point Olds lowered the MSRP on the window stickers and did away with rebates trying to copy Saturn but it didn't work for Olds or Saturn. Nascar has gimmicked up the point system and artificially manipulated races to no avail as they bleed a significant number of customers each year.

How does Nascar conquer a new and younger audience? How do they lose the "white trash" image prevalent with different segments of society? How do they provide a product that people today and 10 years from now still wish to consume? I will leave that up to younger, smarter and people more in tune to figure out.
 
Thegeneral23 said:
Yes i do , but ur missing the point it's others that got the chance that hasn't deserved It , just give this kid a chance
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Glad you are a fan of Bubba. Stick around for a while and you will see many talented drivers get passed over for various reasons for a driver with less talent. Life ain't fair and neither is racing. Got to understand the racing game. It doesn't function like stick in ball in many ways.
 
Thegeneral23 said:
. we use to thrive without diversity smh pathetic .. it's 2017 .. it should be more diversity just like it is in other sports.. yes I'm black .. if it was more blacks in the sport that would open up the eyes to more people with color.. that would bring tons of new fans.. I hope bubba gets a ride.. that would make me happy.. I would support him and I'm sure others would to.. it makes no sense that others can get sponsorship and he can't smh..
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For one thing, seasoned veterans are not getting sponsored so I think it has nothing to do with race or color. In the past they had a colored driver with a good sponsor who covered the whole season. However that didn't work out either as the driver just couldn't get a good enough ride to attract a following. Bubba was running 6th in points when they shut down his ride in Xfinity. Considering the Toyota's were pretty well all cup cars with cup drivers, that was IMO pretty good showing. How come no business men in the black community would step up as a sponsor?
 
StandOnIt said:
Glad you are a fan of Bubba. Stick around for a while and you will see many talented drivers get passed over for various reasons for a driver with less talent. Life ain't fair and neither is racing. Got to understand the racing game. It doesn't function like stick in ball in many ways.
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For sure as stick and ball is like what life is for most ordinary people as if you produce life is good and if you suck life is not good. In Nascar you can suck and still be OK which runs counter to what seems normal for regular folks.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Fascinating.

What I'm getting from your post is Millennials place importance on who sports figures hang out with and what they do outside of their sport. They base their opinion of a sport on who's else is watching it (assuming Lebron, Lewis, and Serena's buddies even watch them). Please correct me if I'm mistaken. If I'm reading you correctly, why do you think M's value that?

I can't speak for other Boomers but for me what matter most (or at all) is how they perform in their sport. What they do away from it may be somewhat interesting but doesn't affect the way I view their performance (crimes and scandals excluded). It certainly doesn't affect how I see the sport itself.

I've looked at F1 and NBA several times and found them unappealing. I don't care who Lewis Hamilton or Lebron James are hanging out with, it won't make me want to watch their day jobs. Perhaps this is also why I don't get Monster's attempt at cross-pollinating its brand. I've looked at the other sports they sponsor, but their participation in NASCAR doesn't make me want to look at them again. I don't get why NASCAR thinks fans of other Monster sports would suddenly enjoy stock car racing when they haven't previously just because Monster is now involved.

I agree that NASCAR doesn't seem to have a solution.
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If Lebron, Serena, and Lewis sucked it'd be a different story.... the difference is they are PHENOMENAL at what they do on the court/track thus garnering the outside attention. There are NASCAR drivers that are up and coming that have the chance to be phenomenal and superstars outside of the sport and no one is even trying.

NASCAR needs superstars. They need drivers who want to win and who want to be famous. Famous people bring other famous people who bring money and sponsorships.
 
After reading all this I think that problems are as such,millennials have the attention span of a p!ss ant. They only grasp what is in front of them on a little electronic screen. Maybe one day they will discover there is more to life than that As for Bubba Wallace, His Xfinity record is real good in 3rd rate Roush junk. He drove Petty's 3rd rate ride to better finishes in a short time with them.Roush keeping rolling crash fest Ryan Reed is proof that talent no longer matters! Some sponsor is missing the boat by not putting him in a first rate ride. What caffeine in a can brings to Nascar other than the fake smiles and titties of a few nameless babes is nothing!
Nascar needs to get rid of a bunch of phony balony officials and rules. Get rid of phony race cars disguised as vacuum cleaners . Slow them down, open the stock grilles,,make the front ends as the stock factory profile, make both sides the same, no skew . It says stock car in the name. the greenhouse of the cars can remain the same for the safety of the drivers.Theres more but I'll shut up for now
 
Team Penske said:
For one thing, seasoned veterans are not getting sponsored so I think it has nothing to do with race or color. In the past they had a colored driver with a good sponsor who covered the whole season. However that didn't work out either as the driver just couldn't get a good enough ride to attract a following. Bubba was running 6th in points when they shut down his ride in Xfinity. Considering the Toyota's were pretty well all cup cars with cup drivers, that was IMO pretty good showing. How come no business men in the black community would step up as a sponsor?
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......?
 
formula racer said:
After reading all this I think that problems are as such,millennials have the attention span of a p!ss ant. They only grasp what is in front of them on a little electronic screen. Maybe one day they will discover there is more to life than that As for Bubba Wallace, His Xfinity record is real good in 3rd rate Roush junk. He drove Petty's 3rd rate ride to better finishes in a short time with them.Roush keeping rolling crash fest Ryan Reed is proof that talent no longer matters! Some sponsor is missing the boat by not putting him in a first rate ride. What caffeine in a can brings to Nascar other than the fake smiles and titties of a few nameless babes is nothing!
Nascar needs to get rid of a bunch of phony balony officials and rules. Get rid of phony race cars disguised as vacuum cleaners . Slow them down, open the stock grilles,,make the front ends as the stock factory profile, make both sides the same, no skew . It says stock car in the name. the greenhouse of the cars can remain the same for the safety of the drivers.Theres more but I'll shut up for now
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Bring back the Hudson!! :beerbang:
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
For sure as stick and ball is like what life is for most ordinary people as if you produce life is good and if you suck life is not good. In Nascar you can suck and still be OK which runs counter to what seems normal for regular folks.
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yeah the normal folks probably need to find a sport they think is "fair"..maybe that is where everybody went. But the endless whine and mourning some are doing is hilarious. Same thing every day..well life is like a veil of tears for some.
 
ladyspartan16 said:
If Lebron, Serena, and Lewis sucked it'd be a different story.... the difference is they are PHENOMENAL at what they do on the court/track thus garnering the outside attention. There are NASCAR drivers that are up and coming that have the chance to be phenomenal and superstars outside of the sport and no one is even trying.

NASCAR needs superstars. They need drivers who want to win and who want to be famous. Famous people bring other famous people who bring money and sponsorships.
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It sounds like Nascar needs to pick a certain group of drivers and have an ad agency work with them and strategically place them at different events throughout the year. The whole thing sounds contrived and shallow to me but if it would help the series grow its fan base and bring money in who could disagree with it? I don't watch reality programs but maybe that would be another avenue where drivers can become exposed to a larger audience.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
It sounds like Nascar needs to pick a certain group of drivers and have an ad agency work with them and strategically place them at different events throughout the year. The whole thing sounds contrived and shallow to me but if it would help the series grow its fan base and bring money in who could disagree with it? I don't watch reality programs but maybe that would be another avenue where drivers can become exposed to a larger audience.
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I've been said a WAGs show or even a small special on Bravo could do wonders. Especially among women.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
It sounds like Nascar needs to pick a certain group of drivers and have an ad agency work with them and strategically place them at different events throughout the year. The whole thing sounds contrived and shallow to me but if it would help the series grow its fan base and bring money in who could disagree with it? I don't watch reality programs but maybe that would be another avenue where drivers can become exposed to a larger audience.
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Jeff Gordon and his wife were at the Met Gala this past year. It would have made a lot more sense for someone like Ryan Blaney or Kyle Busch to be there.
 
StandOnIt said:
yeah the normal folks probably need to find a sport they think is "fair"..maybe that is where everybody went. But the endless whine and mourning some are doing is hilarious. Same thing every day..well life is like a veil of tears for some.
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At this point I would think Nascar would approve fan applications from normal, abnormal, young, restless, bold and beautiful. I don't think fans would look at the best as not getting a Nascar ride as being unfair as they would it not making any sense.
 
[IQUOTE="Thegeneral23, post: 1251899, member: 9332"]Slightly more than NASCAR? A lot of the lineman are white . The kicker is white the quarterbacks are white. That's just to name a few.. and it's some in basketball and a lot more in baseball than blacks.. so are you really trying to compare other sports to NASCAR come on man.. but what I was getting at, those sports are based On skill and talent .. most of these guys come from nothing and have nothing else to do but come up through stick and balls .. with families with no money at all.. stick and ball isn't like NASCAR when you just have to have money and sponsors to get you in.. Paul menard driving just because of his dad.. name one person in stick and ball playing just because they have money lol.. you can't name not one![/QUOTE]
You'll notice I didn't mention baseball in my previous post.

"According to the annual racial and gender report card published by TIDES, the NFL is almost 70 percent black,"
https://theundefeated.com/features/the-nfls-racial-divide/

Kickers, QBs, and centers are white. That's maybe six or seven people on a 45-man roster. Don't focus on position, look at the entire team.

"According to racial equality activist Richard Lapchick, the NBA in 2015 was composed of 74.4 percent black players, 23.3 percent white players, 1.8 percent Latino players, and 0.2 percent Asian players.[2]"

I am NOT saying any of this is bad, just that those two sports skew heavily toward black participation. They're more diverse than NASCAR, but they hardly represent the population as a whole. They don't even represent the make-up of their fan bases.

As to talent vs. sponsorship, that was true of racing in the boom years too. I'm not saying that's right either, only that it's one of those many differences between autosports and 'stick and ball' sports that make comparisons between them irrelevant at best.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
[IQUOTE="Thegeneral23, post: 1251899, member: 9332"]Slightly more than NASCAR? A lot of the lineman are white . The kicker is white the quarterbacks are white. That's just to name a few.. and it's some in basketball and a lot more in baseball than blacks.. so are you really trying to compare other sports to NASCAR come on man.. but what I was getting at, those sports are based On skill and talent .. most of these guys come from nothing and have nothing else to do but come up through stick and balls .. with families with no money at all.. stick and ball isn't like NASCAR when you just have to have money and sponsors to get you in.. Paul menard driving just because of his dad.. name one person in stick and ball playing just because they have money lol.. you can't name not one!
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You'll notice I didn't mention baseball in my previous post.

"According to the annual racial and gender report card published by TIDES, the NFL is almost 70 percent black,"
https://theundefeated.com/features/the-nfls-racial-divide/

Kickers, QBs, and centers are white. That's maybe six or seven people on a 45-man roster. Don't focus on position, look at the entire team.

"According to racial equality activist Richard Lapchick, the NBA in 2015 was composed of 74.4 percent black players, 23.3 percent white players, 1.8 percent Latino players, and 0.2 percent Asian players.[2]"

I am NOT saying any of this is bad, just that those two sports skew heavily toward black participation. They're more diverse than NASCAR, but they hardly represent the population as a whole. They don't even represent the make-up of their fan bases.

As to talent vs. sponsorship, that was true of racing in the boom years too. I'm not saying that's right either, only that it's one of those many differences between autosports and 'stick and ball' sports that make comparisons between them irrelevant at best.[/QUOTE]
LOOK I think your missing the whole point lol, this is so simple.. ok let me break it down to you.. in stick and ball especially in NBA and NFL those kids are hungry to get to where there at .. most of them have nothing as kids and that's there only way out in most cases! So there more hungrier than other races .. all stick and ball is based off is talent.. not no sponsor or money.. any race any color have a chance in stick and ball.. these kids I'm talking bout coming up are not chase Elliot's are not Ryan blanyes are not Paul Lenard's are not Dale jr the list goes on.. these drivers are born into money so how hard can it be lol?? You got the Dillion boys that prob wouldn't even be driving if it wasn't for there grandfather lol.. but there set for life! That's a difference between stick and back and NASCAR which y'all fell to realize.. if your family is in the sport and you want t drive come with cash and your in! Stick and ball just because your family played don't mean you will have the talent to play! It's a big big big difference .. it's nowhere near the same .. if my father was in the NBA and I wanted to play in NBA that don't mean I will play just because my father did.. I have to haven't talent and skills.. I wouldn't even get THE CHANCE .. Key word CHANCE.. ok if my father was a NASCAR driver and we had some money and I wanted to drive , I would at least get a CHANCE.. key word CHANCE.. just because of name and money .
 
Thegeneral23 said:
LOOK I think your missing the whole point lol, this is so simple.. ok let me break it down to you.. in stick and ball especially in NBA and NFL those kids are hungry to get to where there at .. most of them have nothing as kids and that's there only way out in most cases! So there more hungrier than other races .. all stick and ball is based off is talent.. not no sponsor or money.. any race any color have a chance in stick and ball.. these kids I'm talking bout coming up are not chase Elliot's are not Ryan blanyes are not Paul Lenard's are not Dale jr the list goes on.. these drivers are born into money so how hard can it be lol?? You got the Dillion boys that prob wouldn't even be driving if it wasn't for there grandfather lol.. but there set for life! That's a difference between stick and back and NASCAR which y'all fell to realize.. if your family is in the sport and you want t drive come with cash and your in! Stick and ball just because your family played don't mean you will have the talent to play! It's a big big big difference .. it's nowhere near the same .. if my father was in the NBA and I wanted to play in NBA that don't mean I will play just because my father did.. I have to haven't talent and skills.. I wouldn't even get THE CHANCE .. Key word CHANCE.. ok if my father was a NASCAR driver and we had some money and I wanted to drive , I would at least get a CHANCE.. key word CHANCE.. just because of name and money .
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I think we've gone off on two different topics. I was referring ONLY to your post #126:
Thegeneral23 said:
First of all I never said overly diverse . So please don't put words in my mouth thank you .. but in the NFL and NBA and baseball you have a diverse in it.. same thing dave moody was talking bout on his show.. getting more diverse in the sport would help.. and it would tremendously! It's no color in the sport.. I don't have a problem with it but it would help a lot..
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For the most part, I'm with you on your other points. I don't think other sports are quite the meritocracy you do. I think who the college coaches recruit plays a big role in who gets a shot at the pro level, and that isn't always based strictly on talent. But for the most part I agree with you; it's just that 'talent vs. sponsorship' was never what I was talking about. I'm only addressing your position that the NBA and NFL are diverse.
 
ladyspartan16 said:
Basketball Wives, WAGs (The actual name ), Baseball Wives have all been shows.
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Oooooooooooooo-kay.

I'd be more likely to watch a program about women athletes (or scientists or ditch diggers or any woman who had actually done something herself) than a show about women who are the subject only because they associate with male athletes. Are there programs about the husbands and boyfriends of female professional golfers, soccer players, tennis players? I suspect not.

I'd certainly watch a program about up-and-coming female race car drivers as opposed to the Significant Others of male drivers at any level. Just me, I guess
 
formula racer said:
After reading all this I think that problems are as such,millennials have the attention span of a p!ss ant. They only grasp what is in front of them on a little electronic screen. Maybe one day they will discover there is more to life than that As for Bubba Wallace, His Xfinity record is real good in 3rd rate Roush junk. He drove Petty's 3rd rate ride to better finishes in a short time with them.Roush keeping rolling crash fest Ryan Reed is proof that talent no longer matters! Some sponsor is missing the boat by not putting him in a first rate ride. What caffeine in a can brings to Nascar other than the fake smiles and titties of a few nameless babes is nothing!
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They have the ability to process information faster than the generations before them. They work on 5 to 6 different platforms at the same time. Old guys in their 40's and above work on 3 platforms at best. On a job that is data driven they put those old guys and gals to shame. Each generation has its pluses and minuses.

Caffeine in a can brings the possibility of new fans because it is hip. Wanna advise the long line of sponsors that were lined-up seeking to do business with NASCAR? Wanna share which ones of those might be tapped into the younger fan base? Oh, I get it you want to go back in time and get RC Cola and moon pies to sponsor the sport. It could be the Moon Pie Cup. That's would certainly fill those seats and bring in a younger audience.o_O
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Oooooooooooooo-kay.

I'd be more likely to watch a program about women athletes (or scientists or ditch diggers or any woman who had actually done something herself) than a show about women who are the subject only because they associate with male athletes. Are there programs about the husbands and boyfriends of female professional golfers, soccer players, tennis players? I suspect not.

I'd certainly watch a program about up-and-coming female race car drivers as opposed to the Significant Others of male drivers at any level. Just me, I guess
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Lebron and Steph Curry's wives aren't on the show but both of them have used the attention they get as WAGs to build very lucrative businesses for themselves.

A good chunk of their female following also follow their wives.

Example: I've become more of a Kyle Busch fan because I think his wife is a sweetheart.

WAGs that are popular generally become so by their personal endeavors.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I think we've gone off on two different topics. I was referring ONLY to your post #126:

For the most part, I'm with you on your other points. I don't think other sports are quite the meritocracy you do. I think who the college coaches recruit plays a big role in who gets a shot at the pro level, and that isn't always based strictly on talent. But for the most part I agree with you; it's just that 'talent vs. sponsorship' was never what I was talking about. I'm only addressing your position that the NBA and NFL are diverse.
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Isn't based on talent lol??? So what would it be lol?? Coaches are trying to win and get paid.. so what else could it be please explain lol..
 
ladyspartan16 said:
have the chance to be phenomenal and superstars outside of the sport and no one is even trying.

NASCAR needs superstars. They need drivers who want to win and who want to be famous. Famous people bring other famous people who bring money and sponsorships.
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Three names, Jeff Gordon, Dale Jr., Tony Stewart. Many people that didn't follow NASCAR knew those names. That qualifies as famous in my opinion. They rub elbows with celebrities, Gordon and Kyle Busch were at the Mayweather McGregor fight and had their pictures taken on the red carpet. Tons of these drivers do interviews on news channels and talk shows. Dale Jr went to the Redskins training camp and has been in several music videos. The chase drivers went to the White House after every championship season (don't know if they do currently). How can you possibly say these people aren't famous? They're not A list celebrities by any means, but there are plenty of famous drivers in this sport.
 
Thegeneral23 said:
Isn't based on talent lol??? So what would it be lol?? Coaches are trying to win and get paid.. so what else could it be please explain lol..
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The recent college basketball issues demonstrate that some coaches are motivated at least in part by bribes from equipment manufacturers and sports agents.
 
Snowman said:
Three names, Jeff Gordon, Dale Jr., Tony Stewart. Many people that didn't follow NASCAR knew those names. ...
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Uh, you do see the problem with those three names, right? How many people who don't follow NASCAR know the names of the kids coming up behind them? Elliott, Blaney, Larson, Suarez? Excluding Johnson (maybe), how many non-fans could name any of the last handful of champions - Kez, Harvick, Kyle?
 
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