Gen 6 car

There is no such thing as a pretty race car - except the GT40 of course. Form follows function.
 
Another look at the transition of the cars throughout the years.

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FenderBumper said:
Daddy, can we go back to GEN 1?
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A trip back memory lane to the final Gen 1 Daytona 500.

1966 Daytona 500 - Richard Petty leads 108 laps to take the checkered finishing a full lap ahead of Cale Yarborough and two laps ahead of the 3rd and fourth place finishers. Of the 50 cars, yes 50, that started the race only 18 saw the checkered flag displayed to them as they crossed the finish line. Seven of the starters retired after less than 10 laps completed. Early S&P's? Who know? Man, those were the days. Sometimes they are best revisited on YouTube. ;)
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
A trip back memory lane to the final Gen 1 Daytona 500.

1966 Daytona 500 - Richard Petty leads 108 laps to take the checkered finishing a full lap ahead of Cale Yarborough and two laps ahead of the 3rd and fourth place finishers. Of the 50 cars, yes 50, that started the race only 18 saw the checkered flag displayed to them as they crossed the finish line. Seven of the starters retired after less than 10 laps completed. Early S&P's? Who know? Man, those were the days. Sometimes they are best revisited on YouTube. ;)
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The long races used to bring tension and excitement because you never knew if the car would make it to the finish.
 
1967 was my first Daytona 500 when according to the crowd "That damn furriner" Andretti won. The cold front that came through caught everyone by surprise, I cut a hole in the middle of a wool Marine Corps blanket I had in the trunk and still nearly froze.

 
Johali said:
1967 was my first Daytona 500 when according to the crowd "That damn furriner" Andretti won. The cold front that came through caught everyone by surprise, I cut a hole in the middle of a wool Marine Corps blanket I had in the trunk and still nearly froze.

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thx for posting this,now I dont feel as old,I was 5 in 67.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
A trip back memory lane to the final Gen 1 Daytona 500.

1966 Daytona 500 - Richard Petty leads 108 laps to take the checkered finishing a full lap ahead of Cale Yarborough and two laps ahead of the 3rd and fourth place finishers. Of the 50 cars, yes 50, that started the race only 18 saw the checkered flag displayed to them as they crossed the finish line. Seven of the starters retired after less than 10 laps completed. Early S&P's? Who know? Man, those were the days. Sometimes they are best revisited on YouTube. ;)
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And the safer barrier didn't hold cars on the track.

Johali said:
1967 was my first Daytona 500 when according to the crowd "That damn furriner" Andretti won. The cold front that came through caught everyone by surprise, I cut a hole in the middle of a wool Marine Corps blanket I had in the trunk and still nearly froze.

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Holy older than dirt man. You saw the man of men win. He has won the Indy 500, Daytona 500, and the Monaco Gran Prix I think.

Help me folks.
 
FenderBumper said:
The long races used to bring tension and excitement because you never knew if the car would make it to the finish.
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It was a different dynamic for sure, one we're too far removed from to explain properly. It's the same way with F1 and sports car/endurance racing. There are plenty of NASCAR loyals who just can't see the appeal of that stuff, but it's kind of an acquired taste that comes from a greater appreciation/fascination with the automobile, as it was at Daytona in the '60s.

Gen 1 is gone and not coming back, that's for sure. But geez, is Gen 3 too much to ask? The new car takes us back to about the middle of Gen 4 on that list. And I assure you I was whining and moaning about the car in 1998 too.
 
Jameswnh said:
It was a different dynamic for sure, one we're too far removed from to explain properly. It's the same way with F1 and sports car/endurance racing. There are plenty of NASCAR loyals who just can't see the appeal of that stuff, but it's kind of an acquired taste that comes from a greater appreciation/fascination with the automobile, as it was at Daytona in the '60s.

Gen 1 is gone and not coming back, that's for sure. But geez, is Gen 3 too much to ask? The new car takes us back to about the middle of Gen 4 on that list. And I assure you I was whining and moaning about the car in 1998 too.
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Todays consumer cars don't even have enough distinctive styling to get back to gen 3, much less gen 1, but we can dream.
 
FenderBumper said:
Todays consumer cars don't even have enough distinctive styling to get back to gen 3, much less gen 1, but we can dream.
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So true . I still can't tell one mini van from another on the highway , now every SUV looks the same too. The cars that are racing all look similar because that's what sells. No manufacturer has the guts to go off on it's own today and design cars that are radically different . The risk/reward would be more than the shareholders could bear. I think all of that went out with American Motors Corp. ,they were the last company to think 'out of the box' .
 
ted@economy said:
So true . I still can't tell one mini van from another on the highway , now every SUV looks the same too. The cars that are racing all look similar because that's what sells. No manufacturer has the guts to go off on it's own today and design cars that are radically different . The risk/reward would be more than the shareholders could bear. I think all of that went out with American Motors Corp. ,they were the last company to think 'out of the box' .
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Who else would actually put a tach on the hood? I'll tell ya', being in a '68 Javelin 390 going up through the gears is not something you quickly forget.
 
ted@economy said:
So true . I still can't tell one mini van from another on the highway , now every SUV looks the same too. The cars that are racing all look similar because that's what sells. No manufacturer has the guts to go off on it's own today and design cars that are radically different . The risk/reward would be more than the shareholders could bear. I think all of that went out with American Motors Corp. ,they were the last company to think 'out of the box' .
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Chrysler seems to still have a little edge to their styling, but the rest seem as if they all hired the same design firm. Mitsubishi's big mouth grill is a prime example of styling that's being copied on many cars today. The rest is determined by aero numbers, so we get jelly beans with trim.
 
Daytona will be a crap shoot for the Gen 6 car. Right place at the right time and you just might win. Right place at the wrong time and your day is done. Not until we get a few races into the season on the mile and mile+ cookie cutter tracks will we really know if the cars are a success or another france family pud pulling.
After the crash in testing that Jr. caused it won't surprise me to see 2 big ones and just 10 cars finish. Hope I'm wrong but.
 
Bobw said:
Daytona will be a crap shoot for the Gen 6 car. Right place at the right time and you just might win. Right place at the wrong time and your day is done. Not until we get a few races into the season on the mile and mile+ cookie cutter tracks will we really know if the cars are a success or another france family pud pulling.
After the crash in testing that Jr. caused it won't surprise me to see 2 big ones and just 10 cars finish. Hope I'm wrong but.
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"france family pud pulling". lol

What I'm afraid of is a 490 mile safety parade followed by a few laps of cartoon mayhem.
 
Bobw said:
Daytona will be a crap shoot for the Gen 6 car. Right place at the right time and you just might win. Right place at the wrong time and your day is done. Not until we get a few races into the season on the mile and mile+ cookie cutter tracks will we really know if the cars are a success or another france family pud pulling.
After the crash in testing that Jr. caused it won't surprise me to see 2 big ones and just 10 cars finish. Hope I'm wrong but.
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Restrictor plate "racing" sucks ass regardless of the car because of the packs. Hopefully handling and tire wear come into play and causes get spread out a bit.
 
I know that the popular opinion on here is the hatred for restrictor plate racing but that seems to contradict the overall view by race fans in general. Regardless of the opinion on here, restrictor plate races are at the top of the charts when it comes to television ratings. Personally I'm a fan of all of the types of racing that we have in NASCAR. I like the diversity in the sport and I can't wait to kick off this season @ Daytona. Throw the damn green flag already!
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I know that the popular opinion on here is the hatred for restrictor plate racing but that seems to contradict the overall view by race fans in general. Regardless of the opinion on here, restrictor plate races are at the top of the charts when it comes to television ratings. Personally I'm a fan of all of the types of racing that we have in NASCAR. I like the diversity in the sport and I can't wait to kick off this season @ Daytona. Throw the damn green flag already!
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I'm of the opinion that those large TV audiences are due to the casual viewers hoping for 'The Big One'. They're not racing fans; they're wrecking fans.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'm of the opinion that those large TV audiences are due to the casual viewers hoping for 'The Big One'. They're not racing fans; they're wrecking fans.
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YEP. The brain figured that out, so he went with a larger plate and smaller spoiler to bring back "THE BIG ONE".
 
Not a fan of tandem racing or single file racing (like at Daytona last year), but I love restrictor plate racing if it's done right (Side-by-side in a big pack). I loved RP racing before the tandems started and I liked the racing at Talladega (but not Daytona) last year.
 
FenderBumper said:
Some people don't like the mayhem of the plate races. I liked the tandem. I thought you did too.
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I did like it and I also like the side by side close quarters racing. Heck, I like racing in general. They can run strung out, tandem or side by side and I'll have no problem with it. I do think that the tandem racing made for great strategy though. I really would have liked to see how that form of racing played out over time. It would have eventually evolved into something else as plate racing always has. It just wasn't given the time. NASCAR buckled under the scrutiny of the fans and took us back a couple notches again to what people were asking for.

We've had no time with this G6 car to really see how it races. A few days in Daytona and a day or so in Charlotte haven't told the real story. Only the races will. We got to see a few minutes of drafting @ Daytona and have now all come to expect mass carnage in the D500 due to a practice crash early on in the session. Newsflash, practice crashes @ Daytona have occurred many times over the years with multiple cars involved. There's really nothing new there. Crashes are inevitable @ Daytona & Talladega. Sometimes there are many involved and sometimes few. It also happens at other tracks. It happens at places like Bristol, Loudon, Dover, Michigan, and on & on.

I also find it amusing that as a fan of Daytona & Talladega that I get the generic label of being a 'wrecking fan'. Well, me and the 13+ million others that will be tuning in to the D500. That's okay though, I've been labeled as much worse on here. Oh, and that 13+ million others includes each and every one of us on this forum. You'll all be watching this race along side of me.

I'm not trying to make you or anyone else like Daytona or Talladega restrictor plate racing. It's really okay if you disagree with me. I can't force you all to be right. :D

It's kinda funny when you really think about it. We complain about the wrecking @ Daytona & Talladega and at the same time we complain about the fact that they were able to start racing @ Bristol and we lacked cautions. What a fickle bunch we are. :confused: I think that NASCAR and us fans were better off before they started listening to us so intently.

PBC
 
I have no problem with plate racing and even if they did decide to remove the plates, I have no prolem with that either. As for the "big one", if some fans tune in to see a that, it's their business and the fact they enjoy it has no bearing on it happening - that's 100% up to the drivers.
 
Thank you, PBS. My donation finally paid off. ;)

#17D500winner said:
I have no problem with plate racing and even if they did decide to remove the plates, I have no prolem with that either. As for the "big one", if some fans tune in to see a that, it's their business and the fact they enjoy it has no bearing on it happening - that's 100% up to the drivers.
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I liked RP racing back when guys could come up the middle or outside and make some moves to the front. Somewhere along the way, it became more like 2 trains sesawing back and forth until there was a huge wreck and the announcers would yell and scream with excitement "it's the big one". I admit the potential for 'the big one' adds tension and excitement, but seeing all these teams struggling to survive get cars torn up take the fun out of it for me.

The tandem was great until teams got crazy with radio channels and pushing all day. The strategy, politics on restarts and great counter moves to the tandem were fun to watch develop. It was slightly more like racing than the choo-choo big one style, but I can see why some didn't like it. I'm happy we got to see some great moves like Tony with no help splitting Kenseth and Biffle for the win at Talladega, Bayne deftly switching lanes to win the 500 and Brad showing everyone how to defeat the slingshot.

So nascar did some surveys and decided to get rid of the tandem, which is OK. I just don't like where they are trying to go. NASCAR used the smaller spoiler and larger plate last year and guess what happened? The 'big one' returned. IMO, that was their goal, and that's just wrong. If you don't think nascar want's big wrecks, please explain why they would take away 500 lbs of downforce and also give the cars more power? It's a formula for wrecks because with so little rear downforce, there's little chance of controling a car when the back end comes out. If we see some cars get T-boned in the drivers door, you'll know I was right. I would have preferred to see a LARGER spoiler and no splitter so guys would have to let off a little for the turns but still have enough control to avoid 'the big one'.

That's my real problem with the new RP rules package. I'm afraid we'll see spread out survival racing , then total mayhem to end the thing. The last Talladega made headlines, but it's not something I want to see on a regular basis.

Yeah, I'll watch and hope I'm wrong, but the signs aren't good when nascar has to 'entice' the drivers to do some pack racing during testing. I think we'll see a bunch of little wrecks early on, or a spread out parade right from the start. I hope you get to come back and tell me how wrong I was, because I want to see some racing to start the season.
 
FenderBumper said:
Thank you, PBS. My donation finally paid off. ;)



I liked RP racing back when guys could come up the middle or outside and make some moves to the front. Somewhere along the way, it became more like 2 trains sesawing back and forth until there was a huge wreck and the announcers would yell and scream with excitement "it's the big one". I admit the potential for 'the big one' adds tension and excitement, but seeing all these teams struggling to survive get cars torn up take the fun out of it for me.

The tandem was great until teams got crazy with radio channels and pushing all day. The strategy, politics on restarts and great counter moves to the tandem were fun to watch develop. It was slightly more like racing than the choo-choo big one style, but I can see why some didn't like it. I'm happy we got to see some great moves like Tony with no help splitting Kenseth and Biffle for the win at Talladega, Bayne deftly switching lanes to win the 500 and Brad showing everyone how to defeat the slingshot.

So nascar did some surveys and decided to get rid of the tandem, which is OK. I just don't like where they are trying to go. NASCAR used the smaller spoiler and larger plate last year and guess what happened? The 'big one' returned. IMO, that was their goal, and that's just wrong. If you don't think nascar want's big wrecks, please explain why they would take away 500 lbs of downforce and also give the cars more power? It's a formula for wrecks because with so little rear downforce, there's little chance of controling a car when the back end comes out. If we see some cars get T-boned in the drivers door, you'll know I was right. I would have preferred to see a LARGER spoiler and no splitter so guys would have to let off a little for the turns but still have enough control to avoid 'the big one'.

That's my real problem with the new RP rules package. I'm afraid we'll see spread out survival racing , then total mayhem to end the thing. The last Talladega made headlines, but it's not something I want to see on a regular basis.

Yeah, I'll watch and hope I'm wrong, but the signs aren't good when nascar has to 'entice' the drivers to do some pack racing during testing. I think we'll see a bunch of little wrecks early on, or a spread out parade right from the start. I hope you get to come back and tell me how wrong I was, because I want to see some racing to start the season.
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Man, I'll just set back and watch the race and whatever happens, happens. I'm just happy to be watching a race and if I didn't enjoy it - I wouldn't watch.
 
All of these teams know the deal going in. Heck, if they want, take a lap and collect that $250,000.00 plus paycheck for showing up and go put it back in the hauler. Turn right into the tunnel then left on route 92. Jump on 95 and head back north to Charlotte beating the traffic. I don't feel too bad for the guys back at the shop. They build cars, that's their job.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
All of these teams know the deal going in. Heck, if they want, take a lap and collect that $250,000.00 plus paycheck for showing up and go put it back in the hauler. Turn right into the tunnel then left on route 92. Jump on 95 and head back north to Charlotte beating the traffic. I don't feel too bad for the guys back at the shop. They build cars, that's their job.
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Yeah, that's fun to watch. :rolleyes:
 
FenderBumper said:
I'm just trying to figure out how we got to the point where you feel cars not racing is OK. :confused:
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Eventually some of these teams do get to run races due to earnings and I think that is cool. Furniture Row was a great example of this. Success stories are rare but they happen.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I also find it amusing that as a fan of Daytona & Talladega that I get the generic label of being a 'wrecking fan'. Well, me and the 13+ million others that will be tuning in to the D500.

We complain about the wrecking @ Daytona & Talladega and at the same time we complain about the fact that they were able to start racing @ Bristol and we lacked cautions.
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As usual, I failed to express myself clearly. My point was that if the plate races draw larger TV audience, it's those extra people who are just watching for the wrecks. If they were watching for the racing, they'd be looking every race in the season; they wouldn't bump up the ratings for the 500, they'd be part of the regular ratings every week.

I, for one, preferred the original repaving job at Bristol. I liked the side by side racing on the variable banking better than the previous flat incarnation. I pay to see green flag racing, not parade laps under the yellow. I haven't formed an opinion on the new pavement yet.
 
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