Gibbs penalties --rescinded, for the most part

TexasRaceLady

TexasRaceLady

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Penalty reduced to loss of 12 driver and owner points.
Points for winning race -- returned and will count in Chase.
Gibbs license suspension -- removed.
Ratcliff suspension -- only 1 race. Fine still stands
Toyota manufacturer penalty INCREASED from 5 to 7
 
I think that is ok they needed some slap on the wrist and I think this will do it. Although my thoughts are since the power plant was a sealed unit that should have made a difference. I think that it's ok though what they got. At least they got most of the points back
 
StewartHaas-Gibbs Racing said:
Wow, that's big news. I'm amazed NASCAR actually admitted they were wrong about some of their huge fines.
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NASCAR didn't admit anything. The appeals board is from folks outside of NASCAR.

Three people selected for appeals board were:

Mark Arute (Chief Operating Officer of Stafford Motor Speedway),
Denis McGlynn (Chief Executive Officer of Dover Motorsports, Inc. - owners of Dover International Speedway)
Jack Housby (Former Winston Cup team owner)
 
I would be Really pissed if I were one of the owners and or drivers that they came down on hard enough to effectively end their season and or livelihood to see this little slap on the wrist they gave to JG and his Japanese friends. Disgusting to say the least. That Is My Opinion and I will not change my mind.
 
You might better put this one in the podium, I see a countdown coming.
 
After all these penalty reductions, I bet nascar now knows how many drivers feel after a GWC finish at Talladega.
 
I think this particular panel made a horrendous mistake that disrespects all of the drivers and owners in the past that lost their teams, careers and livelihoods due to the harsh penalties handed down for far less. I would like to know what transpired behind certain office doors to cause them to make such a decision.
 
Johali said:
I think this particular panel made a horrendous mistake that disrespects all of the drivers and owners in the past that lost their teams, careers and livelihoods due to the harsh penalties handed down for far less. I would like to know what transpired behind certain office doors to cause them to make such a decision.
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Why do you have to assume that something malicious went on?
 
IMHO, Johali, this was not a Gibbs team mistake. This was a manufacturer mistake. Some of those penalties I think you are referring to, were mistakes/cheating/what have you by the teams themselves.
As far as I can tell, the engines are sealed by TRD and delivered to Gibbs for installation. The team does not touch the internal components.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
I have a feeling that the increase of the penalty points for Toyota shows that the panel thought the manufacturer was to blame more than Gibbs because Toyota built the engine.
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agree with this.. It looked like to me that gibbs had little or nothing to do with it.. and that it was a mistake on toyota's part.
 
I agree that Gibbs should have been penalized for this, but not to the extent that the original penalties were.

Like I said back when this first happened, MWR was penalized 100 points (then something like 51% of the possible points per race) for putting "jet fuel" or nitrous oxide or whatever in the engine at Daytona in 07. But, JGR is penalized 104% of the possible points per race for having one connecting rod the weight of two cotton balls lighter than was allowed?

The fact that it was the slightest infraction on an engine that JGR received sealed from TRD meant (in my mind) that the original NASCAR penalty was outrageous. And, the appeals panel apparently agreed.
 
I could not read another post that supports JRG in this one, so I had to sign up and share my opinion. With that said keep in mind that "one of my drivers" is a JRG team!

In my opinion it was a huge mistake to let this team mess around with the engine. Yes TRD sent the engines sealed, but that is no excuse and JGR is just as responsible for doing business with them. It is my feeling that all penalties should have stuck and TRD should have been held accountably in a monetary way and JGR, Ratfink and Kenseth should have sucked up the consequences.

Let me ask you this;
If you were driving your buddy's car and found yourself going through a routine check point and when the cop ran the registration and insurance to find it had neither..who gets the ticket for driving the car, you or your buddy???

There is much more to this story than we know!!!
 
Nascar has been my lifelong sport of choice and it bothers me that the panel knuckled under as they did just to appease JG and the Japanese auto makers, it doesn't surprise me but it bothers the hell out of me and I'm surprised that more of you non Japanese car fans aren't pissed about this.
 
John c said:
I could not read another post that supports JRG in this one, so I had to sign up and share my opinion. With that said keep in mind that "one of my drivers" is a JRG team!

In my opinion it was a huge mistake to let this team mess around with the engine. Yes TRD sent the engines sealed, but that is no excuse and JGR is just as responsible for doing business with them. It is my feeling that all penalties should have stuck and TRD should have been held accountably in a monetary way and JGR, Ratfink and Kenseth should have sucked up the consequences.

Let me ask you this;
If you were driving your buddy's car and found yourself going through a routine check point and when the cop ran the registration and insurance to find it had neither..who gets the ticket for driving the car, you or your buddy???

There is much more to this story than we know!!!
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Apples and Oranges...You are required and able to check the registration and insurance before you operate any motor vehicle. But you can't and are not suppose to check inside of a sealed engine.
 
Johali said:
Nascar has been my lifelong sport of choice and it bothers me that the panel knuckled under as they did just to appease JG and the Japanese auto makers, it doesn't surprise me but it bothers the hell out of me and I'm surprised that more of you non Japanese car fans aren't pissed about this.
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lol, it's not like Ford and Chevy make all their cars here anymore either. Hell, doesn't Toyota make more cars here then Ford and Chevy nowadays? In this day and age brand loyalty to car manufacturers because they are "American" should be dead because they are all full of ****.
 
Here is what I got from Jayski. Read it and weep or cheer.

• Crew chief Jason Ratcliff: The $200,000 fine remains intact; NASCAR suspension now covers one championship points event. In addition, he will be placed on NASCAR probation until the completion of the next three championship points events following his reinstatement;
• Car owner Joe Gibbs: Loss of championship owner points has been reduced to 12. All other components of his penalty were rescinded;
• Driver Matt Kenseth; Loss of championship driver points has been reduced to 12. All other components of his penalty were rescinded;
• Manufacturer: The loss of NASCAR Sprint Cup Series manufacturer championship points has been increased to seven.(NASCAR)(5-8-2013)
 
Nitro Dude said:
Apples and Oranges...You are required and able to check the registration and insurance before you operate any motor vehicle. But you can't and are not suppose to check inside of a sealed engine. I know I wouldn't know how to do it.
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I feel that is just a cop out. One can always keep that cop out ball rolling if they want too. My point was that a relationship is built on trust and either JGR needs to suck it up or drop TRD on their heads. This is the sort of thing I teach my son and my dad thought me about choosing the people we do business with. Kenseth isn't the only one that had these bad engines. Busch and Boyer also had them. I question the severe negligence of TRD and if Gibbs continues to cultivate a relationship with TRD I also question coaches "good name"!
 
John c said:
I feel that is just a cop out. One can always keep that cop out ball rolling if they want too. My point was that a relationship is built on trust and either JGR needs to suck it up or drop TRD on their heads. This is the sort of thing I teach my son and my dad thought me about choosing the people we do business with. Kenseth isn't the only one that had these bad engines. Busch and Boyer also had them. I question the severe negligence of TRD and if Gibbs continues to cultivate a relationship with TRD I also question coaches "good name"!
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No Toyota team has that choice to go else where. Unless they change brands.
 
NASCAR wasn't in the wrong and the Appeals Board has basically said if a team didn't know they were cheating, it's acceptable. If all it takes to get out of a penalty is for the engine manufacturer (Ford, Chevy, Toyota) to claim responsibility, I expect to see this happen a lot more.
 
John c said:
I feel that is just a cop out. One can always keep that cop out ball rolling if they want too. My point was that a relationship is built on trust and either JGR needs to suck it up or drop TRD on their heads. This is the sort of thing I teach my son and my dad thought me about choosing the people we do business with. Kenseth isn't the only one that had these bad engines. Busch and Boyer also had them. I question the severe negligence of TRD and if Gibbs continues to cultivate a relationship with TRD I also question coaches "good name"!
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Welcome to the forum John , sorry that it took a penalty to your team to get you posting . Don't be a stranger ,glad to have your opinions.
 
NASCAR had it right this time. It's not their job to know or care whether someone intends to violate their rules and I don't care who's fault it is. The fact is, it happened and NASCAR has to make it clear. This was an infraction in the engine - a cardinal sin. And the Appeals Board said today, basically, that if a team claims they didn't know their parts were illegal and someone else (who has nothing to lose by "taking responsibility") says it was their fault, then it's fine and dandy.

I expect this stuff to happen a lot more in the future.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
NASCAR had it right this time. It's not their job to know or care whether someone intends to violate their rules and I don't care who's fault it is. The fact is, it happened and NASCAR has to make it clear. This was an infraction in the engine - a cardinal sin. And the Appeals Board said today, basically, that if a team claims they didn't know their parts were illegal and someone else (who has nothing to lose by "taking responsibility") says it was their fault, then it's fine and dandy.

I expect this stuff to happen a lot more in the future.
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You got a spare 200,000 bucks laying around, Gibbs needs it.
 
I think that in both appeal cases , the results were not about Nascar penalizing violations . Neither team was found 'not guilty' . Independent review found that Nascar was simply overpenalizing . In some countries you can get your hand cut off for stealing a loaf of bread . That's just not right . I think Nascar made it's point.
 
ted@economy said:
I think that in both appeal cases , the results were not about Nascar penalizing violations . Neither team was found 'not guilty' . Independent review found that Nascar was simply overpenalizing . In some countries you can get your hand cut off for stealing a loaf of bread . That's just not right . I think Nascar made it's point.
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Penalties need to have teeth. If a team that's solidly in the Chase can go out and "innovate" all season and know their penalties will be minor, where has the point been made?
 
Hopefully the officials will level the playing field for the rest of the year instead of giving JG a further pass.
 
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