Gibbs penalties --rescinded, for the most part

I beg to differ a bit. Both monies are the same, $200,000, but Long didn't have it and Gibbs does. If you want to pick the fly specks out of the pepper, having an engine that is .14 of a cubic inch larger is more of a performance advantage then a rod that is two cotton balls lighter than it should be.
 
The point is they knew they would put him out of business with that fine so anything further would be a waste of time, especially when they refused to let him work it out in time like they did with other teams.
 
well, I bet the drivers who he passed when they gave him 12 points back, aren't happy. I stick pins in my Nascar doll when somebody passes me and my fantasy picks. o_O
 
Woah...I did not expect to see such a big reduction. Looks like the committee really bit on the whole intent/awareness argument.
 
John c said:
Let me ask you this;
If you were driving your buddy's car and found yourself going through a routine check point and when the cop ran the registration and insurance to find it had neither..who gets the ticket for driving the car, you or your buddy???
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If you were driving your buddy's car and a cop searched it and found one marijuana seed under the seat, what would the punishment be?

Nobody is disagreeing that Gibbs shouldn't have been penalized. We were arguing how severe the penalty was. One connecting rod was two cotton balls lighter than the minimum and NASCAR dropped a skyscraper on the #20 team.
 
Yay! So excited! Best thing that probably could have happened. 12 points is about right, as is letting him continue to score points for the win. 200k is a bit pricey, but only one race is a bit low (I would have done 2-3) so that evens out. And no one gives a crap about manufacterer standings, so the 2 point increase is nothing.

I just looked on Jayski and this means he will now be 4th in points! Pretty much where he deserves to be...
 
I love it when someone bends NAAAASCRAAAAAP over their knee and SPANKS their FANNY.....Unfortunately the NASCRAP BRASS are vindictive SOB"s....So they will scrutinize JGR to a higher degree, just so they can twist their nutz if they find something questionable..........
 
Im happy with the outcome of the appeal. Everything there seems to be an appropriate penalty. Alot more so than the ridiculous over-reach by NASCAR in the first place. I think NASCAR has been extremely excessive this year in penalties and fines.
 
StandOnIt said:
I beg to differ a bit. Both monies are the same, $200,000, but Long didn't have it and Gibbs does. If you want to pick the fly specks out of the pepper, having an engine that is .14 of a cubic inch larger is more of a performance advantage then a rod that is two cotton balls lighter than it should be.
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Long's head gasket was .014 of an inch too thick which made the engine roughly one-sixth of an inch too big for the 358 cubic inch limit.
 
I can see Hendrick racing buying engines from "Jimi Hendrix motor builders" next year so they can't be held accountable for tech failures... :D
 
Smoke14 said:
I can see Hendrick racing buying engines from "Jimi Hendrix motor builders" next year so they can't be held accountable for tech failures... :D
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I think all car manufacturers should build their own engines for motorsports. Not have one of the teams or a third-party build it. I know Toyota and Honda (in IndyCar) are two examples where the name on the front of the car is the company that built the engine.
 
Take the motors to Cheech and Chong and tell the panel it aint our fault we had ten cylinders, makes about as much sense.
 
KevinWI said:
I think all car manufacturers should build their own engines for motorsports. Not have one of the teams or a third-party build it. I know Toyota and Honda (in IndyCar) are two examples where the name on the front of the car is the company that built the engine.
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Or at least be competitors in the sport so that they can actually be held accountable within the sport in cases such as this.
 
Smoke14 said:
I can see Hendrick racing buying engines from "Jimi Hendrix motor builders" next year so they can't be held accountable for tech failures... :D
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Johali said:
Take the motors to Cheech and Chong and tell the panel it aint our fault we had ten cylinders, makes about as much sense.
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Despite your hyperbole, you guys do make a good point. What about engine shops that aren't wholly owned by one team (Earnhardt-Childress, Roush-Yates)? Could be an interesting case for the appeals panel.
 
And Johali's dead on right about Carl Long. NASCAR has and is still treating him differently than they treat anyone else. They could've deducted his fine from his year-end winnings and let him compete like they were going to do to Denny Hamlin. They didn't give him any chance to pay his fine. When other people who received penalties from that deal exited the sport, NASCAR went after him.

Remember, this whole thing happened right around the same time all the Jeremy Mayfield nonsense was going on and that's why a whole lot of people took Jeremy Mayfield's side. There was an appearance that whole season, since the S&P situation was becoming more frequent b/c of the recession, that NASCAR was trying to get rid of the start and park teams because the fans were complaining.
 
Also, don't like the notion that a team can get their penalties reduced or get out of a penalty by blaming their suppliers whether it's parts or engine suppliers. Matt Kenseth could very easily win the championship this year - of course Toyota's going to take the blame (since there's literally no consequence) if it gets Matt Kenseth and Joe Gibbs out of a pickle. In the long run, it works for them.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Also, don't like the notion that a team can get their penalties reduced or get out of a penalty by blaming their suppliers whether it's parts or engine suppliers. Matt Kenseth could very easily win the championship this year - of course Toyota's going to take the blame (since there's literally no consequence) if it gets Matt Kenseth and Joe Gibbs out of a pickle. In the long run, it works for them.
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Wait.... Didn't Carl Long buy a used engine from someone???
 
TexasRaceLady said:
I agree, BobbyFord. The decision isn't going to change, so let's get on to Darlington and dance with The Lady.
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Most of the posters on here are toycar fans and vehemently siding with the panel, so since this is an open nascar forum I'll dance with this for awhile.
 
Johali said:
Most of the posters on here are toycar fans and vehemently siding with the panel, so since this is an open nascar forum I'll dance with this for awhile.
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It actually just seems like you have a huge vendetta against toyota and anything thats not "American" from what I have seen here. People are mostly saying the penalty was originally over-reaching; not "OMG I LOVE TOYOTA AND THEY ARE A 100% GOOD IN THIS WORLD OF EVIL!"
 
StandOnIt said:
I beg to differ a bit. Both monies are the same, $200,000, but Long didn't have it and Gibbs does. If you want to pick the fly specks out of the pepper, having an engine that is .14 of a cubic inch larger is more of a performance advantage then a rod that is two cotton balls lighter than it should be.
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Yep, agree. This is the answer to the BUT BUT BUT CARL LONG!!!! argument.

As for others... seems like some people have bones to pick with Toyota and it has nothing to do with this actual rules infraction or reality.
 
TchainT said:
It actually just seems like you have a huge vendetta against toyota and anything thats not "American" from what I have seen here. People are mostly saying the penalty was originally over-reaching; not "OMG I LOVE TOYOTA AND THEY ARE A 100% GOOD IN THIS WORLD OF EVIL!"
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That may be what you perceive but its a misrepresentation of the facts on your part. Its not a vendetta against anybody but it is being tired of people justifying the preferential treatment of a driver and owner just because of who they are. Toyota and their fans do play a big part in this discussion so I bring their reactions into the conversation as I see fit which is my right.
 
Johali said:
Most of the posters on here are toycar fans and vehemently siding with the panel, so since this is an open nascar forum I'll dance with this for awhile.
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Preach it brother!!!:D

It's obvious they did this for balancing the whole assembly considering it was only one that was lite, but the NASCAR rule is you must have 8 connecting rods that weigh 525 grams. I was more shocked that they fined them to begin with, the reversal doesn't shock me at all. We know Toyota's history in motorsports. Spend a bunch of money, win a championship and bail out. ( or in the case of F1 and Rally, cheat and get forced out) Toyota pays the bill in the NASCAR world, evident by the rules that were altered for their arrival and the results of NASCAR's synopsis tests since. Of course, all the Toyota fans will try rubbing it in when they do get a championship. Win 10 in a row and another 35 and come talk to me;)
 
Unfortunately, there's no way to determine what's inside a sealed, subbed-out motor. Which is why I'm ok with the penalty reduction. Yes, the engine failed post-race inspection, yes it was the winning engine, yes it was in a JGR car but no, JGR showed no intent to cheat. NASCAR has always been inconsistent in terms of penalties.
 
Johali said:
That may be what you perceive but its a misrepresentation of the facts on your part. Its not a vendetta against anybody but it is being tired of people justifying the preferential treatment of a driver and owner just because of who they are. Toyota and their fans do play a big part in this discussion so I bring their reactions into the conversation as I see fit which is my right.
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Seems a bit like you might having a misrepresentation of facts on your part as well, there. It is perfectly within your right, yes. I recall Jimmie Johnson last year at Daytona getting huge fines and penalties which got rescinded as well during the appeals process.
 
Thegroundpounder99 said:
Spend a bunch of money, win a championship
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Because Chevrolet has never ever spent a dime in NASCAR for all their championships.

I guess anybody who doesn't have a jingoistic hate against Toyota is a Toyota lover and on the side of those evil squinty eyed japs and all their WW2 money.
 
StandOnIt said:
I beg to differ a bit. Both monies are the same, $200,000, but Long didn't have it and Gibbs does. If you want to pick the fly specks out of the pepper, having an engine that is .14 of a cubic inch larger is more of a performance advantage then a rod that is two cotton balls lighter than it should be.
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Honestly, I'd take the rotating weight advantage over Carl's "big block". My main issue with the whole JGR fine, is that this isn't the first time they've been busted in the motor department. They have a history the last couple years and that should've been taking in to consideration IMO. The heavy oil pans, the magnets and there was another one I can't remember last year or in 2011.
 
TRL I politely asked you to put this in the podium but here it stays so I will have to bail on this subject due to the whizzers attacks before I get banned. Keep the rose colored glasses polished whizzers.
 
KevinWI said:
Because Chevrolet has never ever spent a dime in NASCAR for all their championships.

I guess anybody who doesn't have a jingoistic hate against Toyota is a Toyota lover and on the side of those evil squinty eyed japs and all their WW2 money.
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They all spend money. Were you blinded by a piece of dental floss or did you just not read my post???:D
 
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