Gibbs penalties --rescinded, for the most part

....Does anyone know what a "whizzer" is supposed to be? Im assuming it means a Toyota fan. Which, as Kevin said, seems to be all of us without a burning hatred of anything foreign.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Amazing - a whole lot of people complained when Jimmie Johnson's penalties were basically rescinded. Now it's the right thing to do?
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I think the difference between JJ's and Kenseth's penalties were intent and track record. The 48 team obviously knew what they were doing when they over-modified the C-pillar on Jimmie's car at Daytona last year, and Knaus' track record for pushing the envelope too far probably came into consideration as well. Besides, the penalty was wiped away anyway, which is fine because I thought 25 points was a little harsh for that violation as well.

The JGR penalties were completely different. The 20 team got busted for getting a bum part from the manufacturer that was off spec by such a trivial amount that there's no way it could have possibly created any kind of advantage. NASCAR was way out of line levying a 50 point penalty for this. Even 12 is still too much IMO, but it was nice to see the sanctioning body have to eat a little crow over this one today.
 
TchainT said:
....Does anyone know what a "whizzer" is supposed to be? Im assuming it means a Toyota fan. Which, as Kevin said, seems to be all of us without a burning hatred of anything foreign.
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Yeah, I guess so. I don't even care for Hondas or Toyotas in my personal life as street cars but I don't care if they enter motorsports.

I remember when I was a kid and you would have four, five different engine manufacturers enter the Indy 500. All the engines sounded different. Penske showed up one year with some super secret Illmor-built Mercedes-Benz engines that were super expensive and tested and run in secret. I think it's exciting the more engine manufacturers are in the sport. The Japanese, the Germans, I don't care who enters NASCAR.
 
You know what a whizzer is, its somebody that pisses on other peoples posts just to get a reaction, sorta like you pretending to be a newbie.
 
? First of all, I have no idea how or where I am pretending to be a newbie.
Second, Im not just trying to get a reaction or anything, you just seem to be very judgmental on why people arent agreeing with you by saying we all must worship Toyota.

I seem to recall just a few posts ago saying that its within someones right to express their opinions...... Im trying to think of who that was....

Hmm. Oh wait, that was you. :)
 
That's what a whizzer is and you know it.
 
Anybody who disagrees with Johali = a whizzer, a pisser, a troll, a fisher, and *gasp* a Toyota lover.
 
Johali said:
Most of the posters on here are toycar fans and vehemently siding with the panel, so since this is an open nascar forum I'll dance with this for awhile.
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I see 3's, 14's, 24's, 29's 48's, and 88's in a significant portion of the avatars, so I'd say most of the posters on here are Friends of the Bowtie. Which is perfectly fine, it'd be pretty boring around here if we all liked the same stuff.
 
No, Toy, dont you see? We all love toyotas because johali says so.
 
Let's all take a deep breath and relax. This is a discussion about the penalties. Try not to let xenophobia enter into it. I don't know if the U.S. still has a truly "made in America" car any more --- if anyone knows for sure I'd like to know. And I mean 100% American --- not "assembled in" or "parts from".

I want to leave this discussion here instead of moving it to The Podium, simply because more race fans can discuss the topic. But, I will move it, if I'm forced to by posters who get carried away.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
Let's all take a deep breath and relax. This is a discussion about the penalties. Try not to let xenophobia enter into it. I don't know if the U.S. still has a truly "made in America" car any more --- if anyone knows for sure I'd like to know. And I mean 100% American --- not "assembled in" or "parts from".

I want to leave this discussion here instead of moving it to The Podium, simply because more race fans can discuss the topic. But, I will move it, if I'm forced to by posters who get carried away.
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Now, this is the second best post I have read on this thread tonight. You are 2 for 2 and batting 100% TRL.:D
 
I was and still am pissed about the reduction of the penalties and its my right to be pissed as its anybody else's right to think that the reduction is justified. I don't and have not blamed the Japanese as that would be asinine but I do think that JG and Toyota played a major behind the scene role in the decision that was made to tell them to go ahead and cheat but when you get caught blame it on someone else and it'll be okay. I don't get into pissing contests mainly because they are childish so if you disagree with me that's fine but when you retreads piss on my shoes from now on I am going to piss back.
 
Johali, you certainly have a right to your opinion. I'd like to think that Joe Gibbs plays fairly, but you have a right to think otherwise. Who knows what went on behind closed doors? I have to believe in the system, and that the system works. Maybe I'm being naive, but I'll stick with the system until it's proved wrong.

I don't think I've pissed on your shoes, and I'm not sure if I'm a retread or not. :D
 
It sounds to me like NASCAR will be rethinking their selection of their board of appeals. It sure doesn't look good lately for them considering their track record of upheld penalties. I'm guessing that area will be restructured soon.

As far as the reduction goes, I'd rather have seen the penalty upheld. If it was a result of judging intent then I think it's a dangerous area to explore. If it's simply a result of lying blame elsewhere then what's to stop a similar defense for other rules infractions?
 
If the part that was deemed illegal would have given an advantage to the team, than I would have agreed with the penalty. Everything I have heard and read says the rod being under weight gave no racing advantage. I just can't see anyone on the Gibbs team calling TRD and telling them to make a part that has no advantage to it and risking the penalties.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
Johali, you certainly have a right to your opinion. I'd like to think that Joe Gibbs plays fairly, but you have a right to think otherwise. Who knows what went on behind closed doors? I have to believe in the system, and that the system works. Maybe I'm being naive, but I'll stick with the system until it's proved wrong.

I don't think I've pissed on your shoes, and I'm not sure if I'm a retread or not. :D
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Damn TRL your 4 years younger than me and in a manner of speaking we are both retreads :cheers: but you know what I meant about retreads and of course no shoe pissing from you just debate as its meant to be. :D
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
As far as the reduction goes, I'd rather have seen the penalty upheld. If it was a result of judging intent then I think it's a dangerous area to explore. If it's simply a result of lying blame elsewhere then what's to stop a similar defense for other rules infractions?
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When there clearly is no performance gain, it isn't necessary to judge intent. Then again, I'm one of those people who have always had a problem with nascar equating acid dipped sheet metal or using jet fuel with a team having a body panel out of shape.
 
Johali said:
Damn TRL your 4 years younger than me and in a manner of speaking we are both retreads :cheers: but you know what I meant about retreads and of course no shoe pissing from you just debate as its meant to be. :D
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TexasRaceLady said:
From one retread to another ---:cheers:
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A blossoming relationship. Johali, you big flirt, You're making progress! ;)
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
As far as the reduction goes, I'd rather have seen the penalty upheld. If it was a result of judging intent then I think it's a dangerous area to explore. If it's simply a result of lying blame elsewhere then what's to stop a similar defense for other rules infractions?
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It could be that intent was much easier to gauge in this case than in most others, considering the evidence.
 
FLRacingFan said:
It could be that intent was much easier to gauge in this case than in most others, considering the evidence.
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Exactly. If there is no question from the engineers that there is no performance gain, there can't be intent. Well, unless JGR and TRD conspired to get a date with Middlebrook.
 
I'm a fan of the driver not the manufacturer. I could care less if a mini cooper was out there as long as they had a good driver. I wonder if fans of JGR turned their back on him like Smoke did cause they went to Toyota. Seems silly.
 
Lazyking said:
I'm a fan of the driver not the manufacturer. I could care less if a mini cooper was out there as long as they had a good driver. I wonder if fans of JGR turned their back on him like Smoke did cause they went to Toyota. Seems silly.
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You can be sure they did and, yes, it's silly to dislike someone because of the make of car they drive :confused:
 
I dislike my neighbor up the street for what she drives because I want it, a Lamborghini Aventador LP 700-4, don't know what I'd do with a 700hp v12 with a top speed of 217 mph but holy sh!t what a ride.
 
Lazyking said:
I'm a fan of the driver not the manufacturer. I could care less if a mini cooper was out there as long as they had a good driver. I wonder if fans of JGR turned their back on him like Smoke did cause they went to Toyota. Seems silly.
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Im the same way even though I lean to be a Ford man at heart. I think they were right to drop the penalties down some. Right, wrong, or inbetween you can bet the France mafia is looking into replacing the appeals board. This gave the dictators a huge black eye imo. There was simply no competitive advantage.
 
Johali said:
I dislike my neighbor up the street for what she drives because I want it, a Lamborghini Aventador LP 700-4, don't know what I'd do with a 700hp v12 with a top speed of 217 mph but holy sh!t what a ride.
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Nice neighborhood!
I tend to agree with both Andy and yourself. Engines have always been a "no joke" area for NASCAR. I understand it was a sealed unit, but it doesn't matter. It was an engine infraction, and the penalty must be severe.
 
ToyYoda said:
I see 3's, 14's, 24's, 29's 48's, and 88's in a significant portion of the avatars, so I'd say most of the posters on here are Friends of the Bowtie. Which is perfectly fine, it'd be pretty boring around here if we all liked the same stuff.
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NO......................BETTER.
 
Lazyking said:
I'm a fan of the driver not the manufacturer. I could care less if a mini cooper was out there as long as they had a good driver. I wonder if fans of JGR turned their back on him like Smoke did cause they went to Toyota. Seems silly.
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:flushed:
 
I don't know why I can't get more action on this ,but once again , I think this has merit . The old days of ruling by ever increasing penalties has reached it's max . To come up with the Gen 6 car , Nascar sat down with the owners and manufacturers and come to a mutually acceptable agreement . This can be done again in the area of infractions and fines . People like Hendrick , Penske , Gibbs , Roush and Childress (etc) aren't stupid . They don't want to be embarassed and they don't want their sponsors embarassed . This isn't the old days when guys were towing a car to the track with some tricked out engine and no sponsor . Times have changed and the system can change too. Give the owners and manufacturers a chance to come up with an alternative .
 
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