GM Getting Rid of Internal Combustion Engines, Will Go All Electric

2 Sweet said:
I see your point, but it goes both ways. Back in the 90's, some people thought cars would be flying by now. Technology is very fast to develop in some areas yet slow to adapt in others.
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The biggest stumbling block to flying cars isn't the technology, it's how to compensate for the stupid things people would do while operating them. Plenty of people don't operate their current vehicles safely when they only have two dimensions to screw around in. They take risks and assume others are going to compensate for them. Imagine if they had three dimensions to FUBAR. No, we don't have to imagine; look how many people operate drones in an unsafe or illegal manner.

The technological development that will lead to flying cars is driverless autonomous street vehicles, regardless of how they're powered. Once people accept 2D operation is safer when all vehicles are control by a redundant coordinated network instead of millions of individual analog operators, then 3D will follow.
 
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they already have the flying car. Unfortunately the powers that be can't figuer out how they can
profit off this and they also can't come up with a set of rules for the use of flying cars.
Then someone came up with the drone and now all those in charge are working on rules for them because it is easier than making rules for flying cars.
It was suggested that within another generation of politicians no one will have the brain power to solve the problem.
 
Not sure how we got to flying cars but I'm of the mindset that we don't need flying cars any more than we need driver-less cars. Does anyone think for a second that the general population of drivers could actually navigate our sky's with any degree of safety? That's beyond comprehension.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Not sure how we got to flying cars but I'm of the mindset that we don't need flying cars any more than we need driver-less cars. Does anyone think for a second that the general population of drivers could actually navigate our sky's with any degree of safety? That's beyond comprehension.
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If you consider the concept of cars (think of hovercraft) that can fly1-15 feet above the ground
you can also start thinking of the cost savings of building and maintaining highways.
Mind you, you will still need some roads for truck traffic OR go back to using and building
a modern rail system that can handle freight of any size.
25 years ago this was a huge topic for some of us and believe me the merits where enormous
for cost savings once some actual costs where examined.
The electric car today and what it would take them to be dependable long distant means of transportation is beyond today's technology but if you think of cars connected to a single electric rail which also controls the speed etc of the cars, you now have a tole road where your battery isn't even used except when you disengage for local traffic. If this car doesn't need a paved road the implications are enormous.
 
There was a commercial back in the 90's (I think it was AT&T) that had a "look to the future" and predicted how far technology would advance in 20 years with a bunch of different ideas. Many of them were pretty accurate, and several others were way off. Remember "Back To The Future 2"? The hydrating pizza oven?

My flying car example was bad, and these aren't much better. I guess my point is that some technology is much more difficult to execute due to resources or practicality or whatever. I think it will be a long, long time before GM completely phases out the internal combustion engine.
 
LOL, some of the neanderthal reactions here are hilarious. And they were probably sent via a wireless smart device that didn't exist a few years ago. ;)

BTW, the range of electric cars is definitely over 80 miles these days.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Not sure how we got to flying cars but I'm of the mindset that we don't need flying cars any more than we need driver-less cars. Does anyone think for a second that the general population of drivers could actually navigate our sky's with any degree of safety? That's beyond comprehension.
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Hell most of'em can't navigate at ground level safely.
 
Johali said:
So you'd have to have a recharge station at work.

Great. :sarcasm:
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Yeah, I guess I could run a 300' extension cord from my power strip outside my 3rd story window down and across the parking lot. I just hope I don't get it tangled with the other 200+ people's wires from this building. That would end up being like the untangling of the Christmas lights, day after day.
 
A guy in my neighborhood has a Tesla model S.

Range is 300 miles after which the thing requires a 9 hour re-charge. He spent 6 days driving from Vancouver, B.C. to Palm Desert, California. I do that trip in 2 days.
 
We have been down this road before...

Woods Dual Power Model 44 Coupe

At $2,700, The Dual Power Model 44 Coupe of 1911 to 1918 had a 4-cylinder internal combustion engine as well as electric power. Below 15 mph the car was electric powered and above it the conventional engine took over to take the vehicle to a maximum of around 35 mph . It is today considered a historic hybrid electric vehicle​
upload_2017-10-4_11-19-51.png
 
Some of you are really showing your age and lack of knowledge on this subject.
 
Candace66 said:
LOL, some of the neanderthal reactions here are hilarious. And they were probably sent via a wireless smart device that didn't exist a few years ago. ;)

BTW, the range of electric cars is definitely over 80 miles these days.
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Not if you actually want it to be "affordable"...

In case you need help reading a graph, the majority of electric cars have a range below 90 miles. But I'm the neanderthal so I'm sure you'll have a different interpretation...

BEV_EPA_range_comparison_2016-2017_MY_priced_under_50K_US.png
 
Where does the electricity for the charging stations come from? Do they have generators at the charging stations? If so, what powers the generators? These are the questions that need to be answered.
 
aunty dive said:
A guy in my neighborhood has a Tesla model S.
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I have one too, a lot quicker than expected. A very nice car. It is going on two years old, thought it might be a primary car, but found out the hard way it was not meant for my climate.

Range shrinks exponentially as the temperature drops...when it gets down to - 20'F ambient you are lucky to get 25 miles before it goes into battery saving mode...it was still almost 15 miles to the next exit and did not quite make it that far.

So..no
 
Speedbowl14 said:
Not if you actually want it to be "affordable"...

In case you need help reading a graph, the majority of electric cars have a range below 90 miles. But I'm the neanderthal so I'm sure you'll have a different interpretation...

BEV_EPA_range_comparison_2016-2017_MY_priced_under_50K_US.png
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You're acting like this is as good as it's going to get. Automakers wouldn't be switching to electric if that was the case.
 
Yogisd1 said:
Where does the electricity for the charging stations come from? Do they have generators at the charging stations? If so, what powers the generators? These are the questions that need to be answered.
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Yep. And that's why GM's position is encouraging. Their development efforts (and those of other manufacturers) will lead to the answers to these questions.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
You have the facts for what electric cars will be capable of 10 years from now? 20? I'd like to see those. Links, please.
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Trying to help you Charlie:

The broad steps DOE and industry need to take to meet these goals include aggressive, technology-specific, "stretch goals" established in consultation with stakeholders. Achieving these goals can enable the purchase cost combined with the operating cost of an all-electric vehicle with a 280-mile range to be comparable to that of an internal combustion engine vehicle of similar size after five years of ownership.​
https://energy.gov/eere/electricvehicles/about-electric-vehicles

Just a little FYI...I work for a power semiconductor manufacturer whereas we are in 50% of every wind power generation unit in the world, we are in 40% of every solar generation system, and we are in over 66% of every electric fork lift...and just so you can actually relate...every single GM hybrid bus has our products in it...in fact I am responsible for that one... six, six pack IGBT units per inverter.

That all being said, unless we change the culture here in the USA, it ain't going to happen. One of my clients are in the final stages of qualifying a class 8 truck that is 100% EV, problem is...it will end up at best a city delivery as even with regen systems it is limited in range and that depends not only environment, but weight too.

We are working in R & D on stuff that will not be ready for at least ten years and probably not twenty...the big thing...we have not been able to advance the range vs regen vs time. How long does it take to put 20 gallons of gas in a car? 20 minutes max from getting off the freeway and getting back on...and then drive another 400 miles. Well...took my Tesla on a 330 mile trip...ended up being a 24 hr trip. My other car, I make it in about five hours including stopping for gas. I do not see that changing much in twenty years. Even a quick charge system might take a few hours to still get max range.
 
OldTimer said:
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I suspect there are more electric cars on Puerto Rico that there are manual, gravity-fed pumps. You still gotta fill the tank truck that delivers the fuel to them. I guess gravity will work for the fuel that's left in the storage tanks, but good luck refilling those from the ships.

As I originally noted, it's not like GM is going to stop making fossil-fuel burners anytime soon.
 
OldTimer said:
Trying to help you Charlie:

The broad steps DOE and industry need to take to meet these goals include aggressive, technology-specific, "stretch goals" established in consultation with stakeholders. Achieving these goals can enable the purchase cost combined with the operating cost of an all-electric vehicle with a 280-mile range to be comparable to that of an internal combustion engine vehicle of similar size after five years of ownership.​
https://energy.gov/eere/electricvehicles/about-electric-vehicles

Just a little FYI...I work for a power semiconductor manufacturer whereas we are in 50% of every wind power generation unit in the world, we are in 40% of every solar generation system, and we are in over 66% of every electric fork lift...and just so you can actually relate...every single GM hybrid bus has our products in it...in fact I am responsible for that one... six, six pack IGBT units per inverter.

That all being said, unless we change the culture here in the USA, it ain't going to happen. One of my clients are in the final stages of qualifying a class 8 truck that is 100% EV, problem is...it will end up at best a city delivery as even with regen systems it is limited in range and that depends not only environment, but weight too.

We are working in R & D on stuff that will not be ready for at least ten years and probably not twenty...the big thing...we have not been able to advance the range vs regen vs time. How long does it take to put 20 gallons of gas in a car? 20 minutes max from getting off the freeway and getting back on...and then drive another 400 miles. Well...took my Tesla on a 330 mile trip...ended up being a 24 hr trip. My other car, I make it in about five hours including stopping for gas. I do not see that changing much in twenty years. Even a quick charge system might take a few hours to still get max range.
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Thanks. I don't see it changing much either, but let's drag driverless cars back into the discussion.

One social change (always harder to implement than technological ones) could be the abandonment of personal vehicle ownership. If you pay a fixed vehicle leasing fee monthly, you don't care how long it takes for the vehicle you currently occupy to recharge. Say you can get 250 miles. With computer-controlled speed, that's probably about 2 or 2.5 hours range; you'll want to pee and stretch by then. You pull into the leasing chain's lot, decouple the propulsion module (with battery) from the passenger and cargo pod, hook up another module (with fresh battery) to the pod, and head out again in about the same 20 minutes or so. The vehicle you got out of goes to be recharged for its next user six hours down the line. And with autonomous vehicle operation, you don't even have to go out in the rain to do the decoupling / hook-up. For shorter range weekly trips to work and school, you have the option to keep the vehicle and recharge at home.

Yeah, I read too much sci-fi as a kid.
 
Beautiful isn't it? I got lambasted and someone even said I was a lobbyist for starting a thread about NASCAR going e-racing. A major manufacturer isn't going to stay in a sport if it doesn't produce products sold. This is classic and I love it. Get ready for some big ol' changes NASCAR Nation.
 
Towmater said:
Beautiful isn't it? I got lambasted and someone even said I was a lobbyist for starting a thread about NASCAR going e-racing. A major manufacturer isn't going to stay in a sport if it doesn't produce products sold. This is classic and I love it. Get ready for some big ol' changes NASCAR Nation.
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GM hasn't produced a RWD vehicle in years. They dropped carbs in production cars but still raced with them over a decade later Do they still make production models with manual transmissions? Only as a small percentage of their overall fleet, and likely on less than a majority of those models that offer a manual option.

What does what they produce have to do with what they race? :blink:
 
Charlie Spencer said:
GM hasn't produced a RWD vehicle in years. They dropped carbs in production cars but still raced with them over a decade later Do they still make production models with manual transmissions? Only as a small percentage of their overall fleet, and likely on less than a majority of those models that offer a manual option.

What does what they produce have to do with what they race? :blink:
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Rear Wheel Drive vehicles by GM? Stop by a Chevy dealer they will be happy to show you some, but if you need a clue - the Camero comes to mind. On your what they produce to what they race with? Why in the world would a manufacturer that will only be producing electric engines want to race in a technology that is from yesterday? Right, they are going to line up and dump millions to produce a product that does not represent anything they have to do with. That would be like Tesla suddenly wanting to dump money to become a manufacturer in NASCAR.
 
2 Sweet said:
"GM hasn't produced a rear wheel drive vehicle in years"......Am I reading that right? I'm assuming you meant to say something different.......
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Yeah, I overstepped on that one. But excluding the recent SS, what have they put on the track in the Cup series that exists as RWD in the production models? That example is off base, but my point remains. For a couple of decades, race cars in Cup include features and major components that have zippo to do with their production 'counterparts'.
 
Towmater said:
Rear Wheel Drive vehicles by GM? Stop by a Chevy dealer they will be happy to show you some, but if you need a clue - the Camero comes to mind. On your what they produce to what they race with? Why in the world would a manufacturer that will only be producing electric engines want to race in a technology that is from yesterday? Right, they are going to line up and dump millions to produce a product that does not represent anything they have to do with. That would be like Tesla suddenly wanting to dump money to become a manufacturer in NASCAR.
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Why would a manufacturer that produces only fuel-injected engines want to race a technology from yesterday like carburetors? But they did, and their competitors did too.

At the rate electric cars will be developed and the rate NASCAR competitors adopt current technologies, most of us in this discussion will have shuffled off this mortal coil before gas-powered cars stop competing.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Why would a manufacturer that produces only fuel-injected engines want to race a technology from yesterday like carburetors? But they did, and their competitors did too
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Because the rules required it until the manufacturers forced NASCAR to change the rule. Also, you are comparing apples to oranges once GM goes totally electric. Lastly, if they are moving in that direction there is a reason for it. They wouldn't move there all on their own.
 
One thing about electric cars, they get full torque instantly, they'll beat any combustion engine off the line. But they do need a sound track of a car with dual exhaust.

They race electric cars (Formula E) but a pit stop consists of changing cars because you can't refuel them.
 
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