Hamlin is at it again

Greg said:
His teacher was determined that he needed the meds.
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Off Topic.....An educator has no business determining anything about medication. This is educational malpractice. Trust me on this. It happens far too often, and should be subject to termination. Additionally, any representative of a school organization making such a claim can be held financially liable in such circumstances if a parent wanted to push it.
 
Isn't Denny the head of the Driver's Council? Seriously. Stupid as hell thing to say. Hurry up Mr. Bell.
 
Revman said:
Off Topic.....An educator has no business determining anything about medication. This is educational malpractice. Trust me on this. It happens far too often, and should be subject to termination. Additionally, any representative of a school organization making such a claim can be held financially liable in such circumstances if a parent wanted to push it.
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Yeah this. Spot on on all of this! Educators are not physicians or clinicians. Or Psychiatrists. Hell, imo primary care physicians shouldn't be prescribing any medication for psychological issues either.
 
Revman said:
Off Topic.....An educator has no business determining anything about medication. This is educational malpractice. Trust me on this. It happens far too often, and should be subject to termination. Additionally, any representative of a school organization making such a claim can be held financially liable in such circumstances if a parent wanted to push it.[/QUOT
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My wife teaches first grade. I can tell you from the things she tells me. a lot of kids are guinea pigs. She had one this past week that was out like a light at 1:00 in the afternoon. She contacted the grandmother, (mom is no where to be found). Grandma says, "oh, they changed his medicine". In my opinion, there are way too many kids on medication nowadays, but hey, it makes money. There's no telling how many of the current crop of drivers grew up taking some form of crap from about five years of age. Pills, pills pills, and people wonder why there is an opioid crisis in this country. And NASCAR is pretty slick in their wording, " We will not tolerate any drug use, WITHOUT a prescription"' Yeah, those prescriptions are about impossible to come by.
 
gnomesayin said:
That is obviously true. My wife legitimately has ADHD and has been prescribed Adderall in the past. She ultimately decided its negative and personality-altering effects were worse than its helpful effects were good for her.

The problem is that there are many people whose need for it is murky, and it isn't exactly difficult for someone of means to find a doctor to write a prescription for just about anything.
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People use it for homework at college and stuff. Personally, I feel antidepressants, and benzos should be used for short term treatment only for individuals who are diagnosed with major depressive disorder and a neurotic disorder respectively IF they are at risk to themselves and are unable to function in life properly. If someone is having suicidal ideations and have been in and out of inpatient units, fine, antidepressants are probably a good place to START treatment. If an individual can't go a day without having severe panic attacks, alright, anti-anxiety medication should be a place to start. Medication should not be used as a form of treatment which is long term. Medication should be transitional and most people who suffer from depression or anxiety benefit better from therapy.

Unfortunately, there is a generalization about therapy and people seem to think therapists are there to either 1. Fix your problems/tell you how to fix them, or 2. Judge you and be useless. Both of which aren't true. I've seen people with panic disorders benefit more from therapy and a change of lifestyle than they have from medication. I may be the most anti-medication person in the field of psychology lol
 
mack said:
My wife teaches first grade. I can tell you from the things she tells me. a lot of kids are guinea pigs. She had one this past week that was out like a light at 1:00 in the afternoon. She contacted the grandmother, (mom is no where to be found). Grandma says, "oh, they changed his medicine". In my opinion, there are way too many kids on medication nowadays, but hey, it makes money. There's no telling how many of the current crop of drivers grew up taking some form of crap from about five years of age. Pills, pills pills, and people wonder why there is an opioid crisis in this country. And NASCAR is pretty slick in their wording, " We will not tolerate any drug use, WITHOUT a prescription"' Yeah, those prescriptions are about impossible to come by.
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I do have to say though, if there is any driver who seems to "need" any psychological help, it's Denny Hamlin.

As much as we are annoyed by Kyle Busch, and realize he has anger issues, he's generally fine. Denny Hamlin gets stuck in his head too often and seems to be down on himself fairly often. 2010 messed with him, so if any driver is in need of any sort of "help", it's Denny Hamlin. Although I don't think medication is necessary for him
 
Johali said:
Me thinks Denny the Hamlin will be drug tested every hour on the hour for a few months. :eek:
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Not sure why it struck me as being so funny, but reading, "Denny the Hamlin" has a humorous sound to it. I suppose that while I say I like all the drivers he is one of those near the low end of my like list. :rolleyes:
 
jaqua19 said:
I do have to say though, if there is any driver who seems to "need" any psychological help, it's Denny Hamlin.

As much as we are annoyed by Kyle Busch, and realize he has anger issues, he's generally fine. Denny Hamlin gets stuck in his head too often and seems to be down on himself fairly often. 2010 messed with him, so if any driver is in need of any sort of "help", it's Denny Hamlin. Although I don't think medication is necessary for him
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You seem to have a very good/helpful knowledge of the topic. I am a high school graduate. So, I have no professional insights on the issue of mental health, or how to treat those that honestly need treatment. But, my gut feeling is there are far too many children being medicated in America these days. I wonder what percentage of our youth are medicated for behavioral issues as compared to other industrialized nations? We seem to consume a lot of meds.
 
mack said:
But, my gut feeling is there are far too many children being medicated in America these days.
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The reasons why these children are medicated should be an outrage to everybody. Primarily, the rationale is based on the behavioral assessment of a teacher who operates on the assumption that everything he/she says is worth "attending" to. Assessments for such medications are based on a standard of 50 years ago when kids sat still in their seats because they got their asses whipped in the principal's office if they didn't. Justifiably so, those days are gone. Fear shouldn't be a part of any classroom. Now, we get what kids will always give us--authentic, genuine, and uncut responses to their environment. Don't like the responses? Change the environment. Obviously, there are those who clinically need medication, but I suspect a HUGE number of kids who are medicated are only medicated because a teacher was too pompous to admit that he/she isn't worth listening to.
 
jaqua19 said:
I do have to say though, if there is any driver who seems to "need" any psychological help, it's Denny Hamlin.

As much as we are annoyed by Kyle Busch, and realize he has anger issues, he's generally fine. Denny Hamlin gets stuck in his head too often and seems to be down on himself fairly often. 2010 messed with him, so if any driver is in need of any sort of "help", it's Denny Hamlin. Although I don't think medication is necessary for him
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I dunno. I think Denny is just a head case. A clinician can only do so much with gray matter IMO.
 
mack said:
You seem to have a very good/helpful knowledge of the topic. I am a high school graduate. So, I have no professional insights on the issue of mental health, or how to treat those that honestly need treatment. But, my gut feeling is there are far too many children being medicated in America these days. I wonder what percentage of our youth are medicated for behavioral issues as compared to other industrialized nations? We seem to consume a lot of meds.
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I'm a graduate student/aspiring clinician in psychology so, it's definitely my passion. But that is a great question, one I bet could be answered in a scholarly article somewhere. Children shouldn't be medicated at a young age unless absolutely necessary because it can and likely will interfere with the way personality develops, regardless of which theory you chose to look at in regards to personality development. One of strongest causes of neuroticism (conflict in the personality, which can lead to something as minor as generalized anxiety, or as severe as psychosis or a personality disorder) is the inability to deal and process particular negative emotions and states of being at a young age. Children who don't know better may not learn coping mechanisms for anxiety or feelings of insecurity so they repress them, as the personality develops around them. If someone this young is medicated, they aren't probably feeling or dealing with whatever it is being felt. Now, you may have a kid who grows up with a drug that masks certain emotions, ESPECIALLY ADD. That type of attentiveness can usually be attributed to energy, arousal/libido which is a crucial part of us. This kind of energy needs to expressed in our lives, and a healthy personality allows us to do so. If that kind of energy is repressed by medication because a child is showing early signs of ADHD, well, you can see how this is a problem. Children who get medicated young usually end up with depressive issues, or even bipolar disorder as that repressed libido wants to express itself in explosive bouts of excitement, joy or anger, until the individual falls back into depression.

The sad thing is, the DSM-5 has specific criteria in diagnosing children before the age of 12, having to meet the 6 of the 9 (I believe) hyperactivity criteria over a 6th month period, as well as having these behaviors have a very specific effect on their life, in a disruptive manner. So there is very specific criteria for diagnosing individuals. The difficulty in this is that early developmental years of children, specifically up until ego identity around ages 6-11 are very crucial in becoming who the child will be as an adult, so medicating children is very problematic. Also, you would find children with these kind of problems are usually struggling with some form of anxiety as well. Such hyperactivity at a young age could very well be a symptom of anxiety. There are A LOT of very, very good child therapists out there who understand this stuff a hell of a lot better than I do who can help a child adjust to what he or she is experiencing.

So yeah, children shouldn't be medicated unless it's an absolute necessity. I know we are on off topic here, and when it comes to psychology I can just ramble and derail this thread. So after your response, if you wish to keep discussing this, feel free to shoot me a pm and I'll gladly finish this discussion with you haha
 
Revman said:
The reasons why these children are medicated should be an outrage to everybody. Primarily, the rationale is based on the behavioral assessment of a teacher who operates on the assumption that everything he/she says is worth "attending" to. Assessments for such medications are based on a standard of 50 years ago when kids sat still in their seats because they got their asses whipped in the principal's office if they didn't. Justifiably so, those days are gone. Fear shouldn't be a part of any classroom. Now, we get what kids will always give us--authentic, genuine, and uncut responses to their environment. Don't like the responses? Change the environment. Obviously, there are those who clinically need medication, but I suspect a HUGE number of kids who are medicated are only medicated because a teacher was too pompous to admit that he/she isn't worth listening to.
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Good post Revman. Nice to have a real, more serious discussion with ya that isn't about Kyle Busch ;)

But I agree with everything you are saying here, an it is infuriating. What I suspect is that a parent would take their child to their PCP, as a result of what you are talking about...a teacher with a lack of patience. Parent reports the child's behavior and the written "assessment" to the physician and the physician prescribes Adderall. Teaches aren't qualified to make such assessments. I'd even suggest primary care physicians aren't either. When I was younger, late teens, I had issues with anxiety. Fortunately it wasn't inhibiting, but it was enough where it caused me some issues. I talked to my PCP about this and he prescribed Attivan and Zoloft. I took it for about 8 months, and it was awful. So I got off it. I totally see your frustration with this.

Revman said:
I dunno. I think Denny is just a head case. A clinician can only do so much with gray matter IMO.
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Well he is. It definitely seems personality based. Nothing is inherently curable, and Denny is problem too old make major introspective progress here. Like you said, he's just a headcase.
 
Revman said:
The reasons why these children are medicated should be an outrage to everybody. Primarily, the rationale is based on the behavioral assessment of a teacher who operates on the assumption that everything he/she says is worth "attending" to. Assessments for such medications are based on a standard of 50 years ago when kids sat still in their seats because they got their asses whipped in the principal's office if they didn't. Justifiably so, those days are gone. Fear shouldn't be a part of any classroom. Now, we get what kids will always give us--authentic, genuine, and uncut responses to their environment. Don't like the responses? Change the environment. Obviously, there are those who clinically need medication, but I suspect a HUGE number of kids who are medicated are only medicated because a teacher was too pompous to admit that he/she isn't worth listening to.
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As a teacher my wife cannot suggest that a child be medicated. Now,. the laws may vary from state to state, I don't know that answer. She teaches in the most impoverished part of the county we live in. The common denominator with misbehaving kids is lack of parenting and/or being born a "drug baby". Toss in the near absence of discipline in schools nowadays, and doesn't make for a good mix. There are far too many people reproducing that are not yet ready, or could care less about the child they're bringing into the world. I'm very much an anti drug guy. I don't think the first and right thing for children is a pill. It just doesn't seem right to me. And thanks jaqua19 and revman for your input.
 
mack said:
Toss in the near absence of discipline in schools nowadays
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I don't agree. The discipline is there, it's just that far too often parents and schools are not on the same page. You give a kid a mixed message from the adult stakeholders in his/her education, and they will go third party for the purpose of consistency. Hello gang. Hello drug culture. Hello social media. Schools cannot act independently when it comes to the disciplining of our kids. Parents must join in. Now, in fairness, schools can no longer act independently of parents. We must join these tow entities. Far, far too often schools intimidate parents by treating them like the kids they no longer are. A few will fight back. If you are a parent, did you sit in an adult chair at your child's parent/teacher conference? Probably not. What does that say? You are not an equal partner.
 
jaqua19 said:
Good post Revman. Nice to have a real, more serious discussion with ya that isn't about Kyle Busch ;)

But I agree with everything you are saying here, an it is infuriating. What I suspect is that a parent would take their child to their PCP, as a result of what you are talking about...a teacher with a lack of patience. Parent reports the child's behavior and the written "assessment" to the physician and the physician prescribes Adderall. Teaches aren't qualified to make such assessments. I'd even suggest primary care physicians aren't either. When I was younger, late teens, I had issues with anxiety. Fortunately it wasn't inhibiting, but it was enough where it caused me some issues. I talked to my PCP about this and he prescribed Attivan and Zoloft. I took it for about 8 months, and it was awful. So I got off it. I totally see your frustration with this.



Well he is. It definitely seems personality based. Nothing is inherently curable, and Denny is problem too old make major introspective progress here. Like you said, he's just a headcase.
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Thanks man. I know we are off topic, but one last thing, and then, I, like you, will welcome DM's.......How many times are these medications prescribed with no "in-person" follow up by the Dr.? Almost always. How the hell can it even be legal to prescribe medication, and rely on a teacher's biased assessment to determine its effects? Total bull****.
 
Revman said:
Off Topic.....An educator has no business determining anything about medication. This is educational malpractice. Trust me on this. It happens far too often, and should be subject to termination. Additionally, any representative of a school organization making such a claim can be held financially liable in such circumstances if a parent wanted to push it.
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I agree she was out of line. I communicated a lot with his teachers and staff, not directly about that issue. I just took him off the Adderall a few days after he started without asking for her approval.

I really think all of his teachers were great, except for her.
I communicated enough with the school staff to know they were also happy when the husbands job relocation moved the pro ADD meds teacher.
 
jaqua19 said:
Yeah this. Spot on on all of this! Educators are not physicians or clinicians. Or Psychiatrists. Hell, imo primary care physicians shouldn't be prescribing any medication for psychological issues either.
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To be clear my son's teacher only recommended (several times). Brandon went through the medical protocol to get the prescription.

FWIW, Adderall obviously gets abused. But it isn't easy at least if you have a legitimate need.
It is a controlled substance.

You only can get refills on the 30th day, no advance issues. You must present the written prescription, and drivers liesence to fill the prescription. I have used the same pharmacy the whole time, they know me well but they never skip any of the steps.
And for me it is impossible to abuse. If I took more than the daily prescription, I would be forced to skip a day in exchange. I also have to see the doctor every three months for follow up.

Someone without a genuine need could skip days, and binge or load up on other days.
I personally can't see a driver wanted to do that. It will give them the jitters and probably force an over reaction or on track mistakes.
 
I have no problem with it if they are. Of course I'm all for performance enhancing drugs in all sports.
 
jaqua19 said:
Yeah this. Spot on on all of this! Educators are not physicians or clinicians. Or Psychiatrists. Hell, imo primary care physicians shouldn't be prescribing any medication for psychological issues either.
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Right on.
 
jaqua19 said:
People use it for homework at college and stuff. Personally, I feel antidepressants, and benzos should be used for short term treatment only for individuals who are diagnosed with major depressive disorder and a neurotic disorder respectively IF they are at risk to themselves and are unable to function in life properly. If someone is having suicidal ideations and have been in and out of inpatient units, fine, antidepressants are probably a good place to START treatment. If an individual can't go a day without having severe panic attacks, alright, anti-anxiety medication should be a place to start. Medication should not be used as a form of treatment which is long term. Medication should be transitional and most people who suffer from depression or anxiety benefit better from therapy.

Unfortunately, there is a generalization about therapy and people seem to think therapists are there to either 1. Fix your problems/tell you how to fix them, or 2. Judge you and be useless. Both of which aren't true. I've seen people with panic disorders benefit more from therapy and a change of lifestyle than they have from medication. I may be the most anti-medication person in the field of psychology lol
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Some people with clinical depression don't have all circuits firing in the right order or firing at all and this can be fixed for some with SSRI's taken everyday. Therapy or even support groups can help but in this country we usually medicate and if that doesn't work you go to jail. Same thing for addiction.
 
Revman said:
Isn't Denny the head of the Driver's Council? Seriously. Stupid as hell thing to say. Hurry up Mr. Bell.
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I think he is no longer a part of the Driver's Council - and thank goodness.
 
gnomesayin said:
I found something to agree with Steve O'Donnell on.
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Most of the sports media is like this clown, constantly tweeting every thought that crosses their mind. In this case he was right. Kinda like the old saying about a blind squirrel.If a blind squirrel wanders around in the woods long enough, it will eventually find a nut.
 
Revman said:
The reasons why these children are medicated should be an outrage to everybody. Primarily, the rationale is based on the behavioral assessment of a teacher who operates on the assumption that everything he/she says is worth "attending" to. Assessments for such medications are based on a standard of 50 years ago when kids sat still in their seats because they got their asses whipped in the principal's office if they didn't. Justifiably so, those days are gone. Fear shouldn't be a part of any classroom. Now, we get what kids will always give us--authentic, genuine, and uncut responses to their environment. Don't like the responses? Change the environment. Obviously, there are those who clinically need medication, but I suspect a HUGE number of kids who are medicated are only medicated because a teacher was too pompous to admit that he/she isn't worth listening to.
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I don't agree with this totally. You're painting all teachers with one brush. That's the same as saying all drivers are the same. You make it sound as if the teachers are writing prescriptions them selves. In our state that doesn't happen. Also, my wife cannot recommend a student be medicated. And as far as discipline goes, in our state there is a "do not paddle" option for parents. All they have to do is put them on the school list of students that can't be paddled, and they won't get paddled. My wife had a first grader tell her there was nothing she could do to him but send him to the principal. I'm talking about a first grader. So, we have problems that cut in both directions. i agree there are some not so good teachers, there's also some not too good parents. both are contributing factors for the problems we are facing.
 
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