Along with the other 42 drivers! :lol: ROTFLMAO!Originally posted by muggle not@Oct 6 2003, 07:06 PM
I read that Newman is giving Harvick "gas pains"
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Coffee Warlord
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along with the fans.
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Gollum
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:lol: Reguardless of what you think Harvick said or didn't say. What he ment or didn't mean. All this debate will give us all gas. :lol:
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MCanyon
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not as much gas as newman has in his fuel cell
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Awesome_Bill
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lol
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17_Fan
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I wasn't too worried about actually seeing Kev & Ryan on Trackside this coming Friday with Kev on all fours getting ready to start 'smooching'. That's why I threw in the Bristol tix's. :lol:
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Mopardh9
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Anytime you want to give those Bristol tickets away send them my way. On a more serious note the fuel mileage thing has to go bye bye. The fans, the drivers, and i think Nascar themselves are getting sick of seeing some one win on gas mileage....it doesn't make for a good race.Strategy is one thing, i give Newman and his gang a lot of credit for doing what they do whether it be legally or illegally. They have figured out something that not too many if any other teams have figured out. I think that aero and tire changes will come about very soon hopefully before the start of next years' season, that will ellimintae the fuel mileage wins. Going to softer tires will make the drivers have to pit way before they run out of gas. I for one would like to see this along with more aero changes. And to comment on the Harvick statement i feel he was saying Newman "has an unfair advantage " and i'll leave it at that. 
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17_Fan
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I'm just surprised nobody figured it out yet...there's that one commercial where, I believe it's Robbie Loomis & one of the crew members...maybe it's Jeff, can't remember, but they say their secret is that they lowered the floor board, hence they can push the gas pedal farther & go faster. The #12 team is actually doing that. I also believe that building their engines in alphabetical order is the key to their excellent fuel milage.
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71Fan
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Personally, I am not against races won on fuel mileage. I've been a fan of the short pit for as long as I can remember. I'm not against a car doing a runaway and lapping 3/4's of the field either. The idea is to get to the finish line first and whether that be by horsepower, mileage, tire management, or just plain snookering somebody in the final turn doesn't matter to me.
Sure, I want to see close racing WHEN the racing is close. I dislike seeing it manufactured in any way. If one team has a great driver, and another has a great motor, and another has a great crew, and another runs the perfect set-up, and another does a short pit, and another gambles on gas, then so be it.
THAT's racin to me. While I enjoy IROC and Legends and any other number of spec car series, what I really want to see is the very best each and every team/car/driver can do within a given set of rules. And yes, I know NASCAR basically produces a spec car series but it IS imo a cut above the rest where at least some room for some innovation is present.
If I wanted a show, I'ld go down to the Strip and see X An Erotic Adventure
Sure, I want to see close racing WHEN the racing is close. I dislike seeing it manufactured in any way. If one team has a great driver, and another has a great motor, and another has a great crew, and another runs the perfect set-up, and another does a short pit, and another gambles on gas, then so be it.
THAT's racin to me. While I enjoy IROC and Legends and any other number of spec car series, what I really want to see is the very best each and every team/car/driver can do within a given set of rules. And yes, I know NASCAR basically produces a spec car series but it IS imo a cut above the rest where at least some room for some innovation is present.
If I wanted a show, I'ld go down to the Strip and see X An Erotic Adventure
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Windsor377
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Thank you. That is exactly my thought on the matter.
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smack500
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I wouldnt have a problem with it if nascar wasnt a driver sport. The driver gets most of the credit for winning all of the races they win. There the ones acredited with the wins or the championships, they get the huge fan bases, and most of the prize money.Originally posted by 71Fan@Oct 7 2003, 10:27 PM
Personally, I am not against races won on fuel mileage. I've been a fan of the short pit for as long as I can remember. I'm not against a car doing a runaway and lapping 3/4's of the field either. The idea is to get to the finish line first and whether that be by horsepower, mileage, tire management, or just plain snookering somebody in the final turn doesn't matter to me.
Sure, I want to see close racing WHEN the racing is close. I dislike seeing it manufactured in any way. If one team has a great driver, and another has a great motor, and another has a great crew, and another runs the perfect set-up, and another does a short pit, and another gambles on gas, then so be it.
THAT's racin to me. While I enjoy IROC and Legends and any other number of spec car series, what I really want to see is the very best each and every team/car/driver can do within a given set of rules. And yes, I know NASCAR basically produces a spec car series but it IS imo a cut above the rest where at least some room for some innovation is present.
If I wanted a show, I'ld go down to the Strip and see X An Erotic Adventure
When Ryan newman wins a race because he can stay out longer without running out of gas, or a dei car wins a plate race because there car is setup more aerodynamicly. They (the drivers) get the credit not the person(s who mostly made it posible.
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MCanyon
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71 fan, I totally agree with you!
You cannot blame the winning team for winning a fuel race, because they are trying to win any way they can under the set of rules that nascar gives to them. If a team like newmans thinks they can win by using that strategy then that is how they should approach the race. If you want to blame anyone about fuel races, then blame nascar, because they need to make the appropriate changes to stop them. But, personally i dont mind fuel races, because i like to see races won, or at least attempted to win in all different fasions. Also, if nascar needs to make closer races in order to please the fans, then why dont they just make mandatory crashes to please the fans too. The thing is, real fans can appreciate what is going on on the track with out needing a close finish every race. If the fastest car should always win, then all we need is qualifying and eliminate passing, drafting, tire conservation, fuel conservation, pit crews, ect...
just my two cents
You cannot blame the winning team for winning a fuel race, because they are trying to win any way they can under the set of rules that nascar gives to them. If a team like newmans thinks they can win by using that strategy then that is how they should approach the race. If you want to blame anyone about fuel races, then blame nascar, because they need to make the appropriate changes to stop them. But, personally i dont mind fuel races, because i like to see races won, or at least attempted to win in all different fasions. Also, if nascar needs to make closer races in order to please the fans, then why dont they just make mandatory crashes to please the fans too. The thing is, real fans can appreciate what is going on on the track with out needing a close finish every race. If the fastest car should always win, then all we need is qualifying and eliminate passing, drafting, tire conservation, fuel conservation, pit crews, ect...
just my two cents
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71Fan
Guest
Well dang, they already have mystery yellows. what more do you want?
Even Jocko's buddy was a hired gun that had the backing of a multi-gazillionaire with a motor that argueably gave him and anybody else who could afford it the biggest engine advantage ever seen in NASCAR. (The same motor that made King Richard a star).
Good drivers take extraordinary cars and do the everyday, great drivers take the everyday and do the extraordinary.
Using that as a criteria, name me a great driver in Cup today if you can. I would not even have to take my left hand out of my pocket to do so.
For all the hype and for all the glory that is cast upon today's championship driver, there are upwards to 3 or 4 hundred folks behind the scenes. In the case of Ferrari you can probably make that thousands. You want to watch GREAT drivers? Try the World Rally circuit. Try America's short tracks. Try the Pikes Peak Hillclimb. But don't count on it being the guy that wins. It very seldom is.
your experience, opinions, and mileage may vary
Even Jocko's buddy was a hired gun that had the backing of a multi-gazillionaire with a motor that argueably gave him and anybody else who could afford it the biggest engine advantage ever seen in NASCAR. (The same motor that made King Richard a star).
Good drivers take extraordinary cars and do the everyday, great drivers take the everyday and do the extraordinary.
Using that as a criteria, name me a great driver in Cup today if you can. I would not even have to take my left hand out of my pocket to do so.
For all the hype and for all the glory that is cast upon today's championship driver, there are upwards to 3 or 4 hundred folks behind the scenes. In the case of Ferrari you can probably make that thousands. You want to watch GREAT drivers? Try the World Rally circuit. Try America's short tracks. Try the Pikes Peak Hillclimb. But don't count on it being the guy that wins. It very seldom is.
your experience, opinions, and mileage may vary
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Mopardh9
Guest
I agree with a lot of what has just been said by 71 and others, but i just hate to see the race decided by how much fuel was put into the cell on the last stop or coming in for that splash and go. I like to see the last 30 laps decided on the track and not have it depend on fuel mileage...just my 2 cents.
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17_Fan
Guest
The same things can be applied to winning a championship.Originally posted by MCanyon@Oct 8 2003, 01:31 AM
71 fan, I totally agree with you!
You cannot blame the winning team for winning a fuel race, because they are trying to win any way they can under the set of rules that nascar gives to them. If a team like newmans thinks they can win by using that strategy then that is how they should approach the race. If you want to blame anyone about fuel races, then blame nascar, because they need to make the appropriate changes to stop them. But, personally i dont mind fuel races, because i like to see races won, or at least attempted to win in all different fasions. Also, if nascar needs to make closer races in order to please the fans, then why dont they just make mandatory crashes to please the fans too. The thing is, real fans can appreciate what is going on on the track with out needing a close finish every race. If the fastest car should always win, then all we need is qualifying and eliminate passing, drafting, tire conservation, fuel conservation, pit crews, ect...
just my two cents
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smack500
Guest
I hate to see the race decided by something controlled by the pit crew or engine builders, and everyone go nuts on how good the driver did. Pit strategy, and that powerful engine got him to the front, and kept him there. Man this guy is an awesome driver.