Hendrick #51 Deal

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fastfordfan

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Hendrick says deal with #51 team doesn't circumvent four-team cap: Rick Hendrick bristled at the suggestion that his Hendrick Motorsports team might be seen as gaining an unfair advantage through its relationship with #51 Phoenix Racing and owner James Finch. Hendrick, who says Finch has been a "good friend and a good engine customer" through the years, scoffed at the idea that the single-car team is a satellite operation of his own four-team program and might be seen as a fifth entry for the 10-time championship group. "Every car he runs, he owns," Hendrick said of Finch. "Every motor he gets, he pays for." Phoenix Racing is a single-car operation in NASCAR's Sprint Cup Series, and has typically fielded cars for select events each season. The Spartanburg, S.C.-based team, which has purchased chassis and leased engines from Hendrick in the past, did compete in all 36 races in 2011, however, with four drivers. Now that Kurt Busch, the 2004 Cup champion, has joined the #51 team, Hendrick said the change could result in a move to a more proven product as far as engines are concerned. Since 2006, NASCAR has allowed team owners to field no more than four full-time teams, with an exception for an organization that seeks to field a fifth car on a limited basis for an up-and-coming driver. Organizations such as Hendrick, Richard Childress Racing and Roush Fenway Racing (through its Roush Yates Engines group) provide such assistance, at a price. In return, in addition to any monetary profits (such as any vendor would receive) such programs can provide feedback and validation for the hardware being supplied. Owners cannot receive financial consideration based on the performance of those cars to which they provide services, and they may not have an ownership stake in the team or teams. NASCAR can ask to look at contracts and other financial documentation that show the pricing is legitimate.(SceneDaily)(1-29-2012)
 
fastfordfan said:
Hendrick says deal with #51 team doesn't circumvent four-team cap: Rick Hendrick bristled at the suggestion that his Hendrick Motorsports team might be seen as gaining an unfair advantage through its relationship with #51 Phoenix Racing and owner James Finch. Hendrick, who says Finch has been a "good friend and a good engine customer" through the years, scoffed at the idea that the single-car team is a satellite operation of his own four-team program and might be seen as a fifth entry for the 10-time championship group. "Every car he runs, he owns," Hendrick said of Finch. "Every motor he gets, he pays for." Phoenix Racing is a single-car operation in NASCAR's Sprint Cup Series, and has typically fielded cars for select events each season. The Spartanburg, S.C.-based team, which has purchased chassis and leased engines from Hendrick in the past, did compete in all 36 races in 2011, however, with four drivers. Now that Kurt Busch, the 2004 Cup champion, has joined the #51 team, Hendrick said the change could result in a move to a more proven product as far as engines are concerned. Since 2006, NASCAR has allowed team owners to field no more than four full-time teams, with an exception for an organization that seeks to field a fifth car on a limited basis for an up-and-coming driver. Organizations such as Hendrick, Richard Childress Racing and Roush Fenway Racing (through its Roush Yates Engines group) provide such assistance, at a price. In return, in addition to any monetary profits (such as any vendor would receive) such programs can provide feedback and validation for the hardware being supplied. Owners cannot receive financial consideration based on the performance of those cars to which they provide services, and they may not have an ownership stake in the team or teams. NASCAR can ask to look at contracts and other financial documentation that show the pricing is legitimate.(SceneDaily)(1-29-2012)
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I don't get it. Does he mean Finch ins going to pony up just a little more money and get top notch engines instead of just an engine?
 
MOEJOE said:
I don't get it. Does he mean Finch ins going to pony up just a little more money and get top notch engines instead of just an engine?
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That's what it sounds like. Maybe Finch was buying engines previously that weren't quite up to snuff.
 
That's what I'm getting from that paragraph. Finch was buying what he could afford- something to get him qualified and little else. Now that he has a high dollar driver, he can afford a smidge better, but still not the level that Tony gets. You know, because Tony is really Hendrick's 5th and 6th teams, Finch is just #7 on the pecking order. Or 8th when Danica occupies position 6.
 
Why wasn't this brought up before now about Tony and his 2 teams? How many teams does Gibbs support? Or for that matter RCR and Rousch?

Something is going on behind the scenes we don't know about, like who squealed.:)
 
SST55 said:
Why wasn't this brought up before now about Tony and his 2 teams? How many teams does Gibbs support? Or for that matter RCR and Rousch?

Something is going on behind the scenes we don't know about, like who squealed.:)
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I don't get it either, since Roush and others do this. The whole RCR-EGR-ECR thing is confusing. Hendrick uses SHR and Furn row. I guess it's all about the 'test this for us and get a discount' thing. There's no way to control that. I does make me wonder who spilt the beans. Kurt is the new guy, and getting HMS's top equiptment was surely on his wish list.

How sick would it be if NASCAR now says that Finch can't use HMS equiptment? lol Kurt would melt.
 
SST55 said:
Boy it would suck for Finch but I'd pay a nickel to see him melt down.
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Yeah, I can almost picture those ears melting and laying on his shoulders. * head spinning. Steam. EVERYTHING IS RED, M'FERS!! *
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Well, Kurt's got Hendrick equipment now. He thinks he's a better driver than Jimmie, time for him to prove it.
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Proving how great he is in a one car;underfunded;fifth rate team with arguably second hand Hendrick motors?I would say that 15th to 20th place would be an incredible accomplishment.
 
SST55 said:
Why wasn't this brought up before now about Tony and his 2 teams? How many teams does Gibbs support? Or for that matter RCR and Rousch?

Something is going on behind the scenes we don't know about, like who squealed.:)
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It's like everything else where a Busch is involved. The lynch mob shows up to try to stop the show.
 
ted@economy said:
Proving how great he is in a one car;underfunded;fifth rate team with arguably second hand Hendrick motors?I would say that 15th to 20th place would be an incredible accomplishment.
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The engines are all the same, there are no second hand or second tier engines. There is a difference between R&D and production. Maybe he meant instead of getting R&D stuff he would start getting the same production engines everybody else is getting.
 
Rusty34 said:
The engines are all the same, there are no second hand or second tier engines
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Maybe the engines are close but the team support is light years apart. In equipment like seven post shakers and wind tunnels , like multicar testing , team engineers and multiple crew chiefs .Anybody who thinks one car teams have a chance in Nascar has not seem the stats. Affiliations or not ,they can't compete.
 
ted@economy said:
Maybe the engines are close but the team support is light years apart. In equipment like seven post shakers and wind tunnels , like multicar testing , team engineers and multiple crew chiefs .Anybody who thinks one car teams have a chance in Nascar has not seem the stats. Affiliations or not ,they can't compete.
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But a two car dodge team can win races and be in the chase?

I don't buy it.
 
No two engines are the same, in fact it's ALOT of work to make multiple engines perform the same ( see IROC and some other Spec series ) I know every engine built see's the dyno before it go's out the door......so do you really think an engine builder would sell an Obviously better engine to a customer??? Or would the customer just get the normal everyday engines?
On a similar theme, if hand two seperate teams the same exact pile of parts will both teams perform the same?
 
MOEJOE said:
But a two car dodge team can win races and be in the chase?

I don't buy it.
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Time will tell if Penske can sustain with only a two car team. But a two car team has twice the resources of a one car team.
 
My 2 cents is that you're both right.

IF you have 2, 3 or 4 teams that work well together, and they are able to translate and apply what all those drivers are telling them, numbers are an advantage.

IF you're running Chevy's, but you're NOT HMS, Chevy loves you. If you're HMS, Chevy loves you more. Penske has all of Chryslers attention, along with a little love from Fiat, Maserati and Ferrari.
 
To me,it is simply a matter of resources.We have all seen teams unload at a track and for some unknown reason,they have completely missed the set up. Crew chief, engineers and driver huddle together and try to figure it out.If you have teammates that have a better handle than you,you go next door and get their notes.If you don't have teammates or they have missed it worse than you, SOL. When you look at the brain trust at Hendrick and Roush, you got to admit they have a big advantage.
 
FlFlash said:
No two engines are the same, in fact it's ALOT of work to make multiple engines perform the same ( see IROC and some other Spec series ) I know every engine built see's the dyno before it go's out the door......so do you really think an engine builder would sell an Obviously better engine to a customer??? Or would the customer just get the normal everyday engines?
On a similar theme, if hand two seperate teams the same exact pile of parts will both teams perform the same?
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If the parts are all identical and they are all assembled following the same guidelines and procedures how could any be different? Factory new Corvette Z06's all make 505 HP
 
Rusty34 said:
If the parts are all identical and they are all assembled following the same guidelines and procedures how could any be different? Factory new Corvette Z06's all make 505 HP
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no they don't
 
If your engine guys are building ALL the engines the same way with the same parts then you have a Stagnant engine development program and will soon be racing at the back of the pack.

And No not ALL Zo6's make 505 HP some make more some make less, Chevrolet RATES them all at 505 HP.
 
fastfordfan said:
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FlFlash Cap'n Chuckie
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If your engine guys are building ALL the engines the same way with the same parts then you have a Stagnant engine development program and will soon be racing at the back of the pack​
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That's the old way... engines built by engine builders trying things. R&D is the department that tries things and builds them differently now. The production engines are all built the same way to the same set of standards by several engine builders assembling identical high quality parts according to specifications which are determined beforehand by the R&D Department after thorough testing and validation. While the production engines are being built week to week R&D stays busy testing and validating improvements which may be rolled out later.

Rick Hendrick does not have his name on second rate engines
 
Rusty34 said:
That's the old way... engines built by engine builders trying things. R&D is the department that tries things and builds them differently now. The production engines are all built the same way to the same set of standards by several engine builders assembling identical high quality parts according to specifications which are determined beforehand by the R&D Department after thorough testing and validation. While the production engines are being built week to week R&D stays busy testing and validating improvements which may be rolled out later.

Rick Hendrick does not have his name on second rate engines
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WOW ,well said .
 
Thank you! In light of that, the quote by Mr. Hendrick should be making sense now:
"Now that Kurt Busch, the 2004 Cup champion, has joined the #51 team, Hendrick said the change could result in a move to a more proven product as far as engines are concerned"
 
So we've decided that if the engine department puts together an engine and it shows better numbers than anything else they have had they'll sell it to their competition? Interesting business idea.
 
FlFlash said:
So we've decided that if the engine department puts together an engine and it shows better numbers than anything else they have had they'll sell it to their competition? Interesting business idea.
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I love it when ALL logic and reasoning is THROWN out the window
 
There is kind of a 'no win' argument there . Hendrick engines try to make every engine identical , with no measurable difference one to another. The other side of the argument is that 'scientifically' there must always be 'a measurable difference' . I guess , if the difference is that small , it likely isn't as important as the car's set up or it's driver.







the
 
ted@economy said:
To me,it is simply a matter of resources.We have all seen teams unload at a track and for some unknown reason,they have completely missed the set up. Crew chief, engineers and driver huddle together and try to figure it out.If you have teammates that have a better handle than you,you go next door and get their notes.If you don't have teammates or they have missed it worse than you, SOL. When you look at the brain trust at Hendrick and Roush, you got to admit they have a big advantage.
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Brain Trust? Are we hiring F1 Guys over here?
 
I saw somewhere's back last year about this. If you were to lease a HMS Engine, it would be guaranteed to be within 5hp of all other HMS engines. I would hope so for $100,000 and a leased engine tuner at the "tune" of $400 a day. This is required by HMS with the lease of the engine.

I bet the tuner is more important than the build guy. As far as knowing what to do with what atmosphere.
 
MOEJOE said:
I saw somewhere's back last year about this. If you were to lease a HMS Engine, it would be guaranteed to be within 5hp of all other HMS engines. I would hope so for $100,000 and a leased engine tuner at the "tune" of $400 a day. This is required by HMS with the lease of the engine.

I bet the tuner is more important than the build guy. As far as knowing what to do with what atmosphere.
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And Now You Know THE REST OF THE STORY
 
I'd be willing pay extra to get those meesly 5 extra hp ;) I've been known to spend Hundreds of hours and copious amounts of cash to find that much.
 
FlFlash said:
I'd be willing pay extra to get those meesly 5 extra hp ;) I've been known to spend Hundreds of hours and copious amounts of cash to find that much.
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Damm FlFlash, how fast do you want your fishing boat to go.:D
 
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