hendrick cars an embarrassment at Darlington

hidesert cowboy

hidesert cowboy

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people out there saying dale jr has lost it due to his concussion. WTF? do you have any idea how terrible hendrick cars are right now? I don't think I have ever seen the organization so lost and running this bad. All HMS cars were stuck around 15th to 22nd during the race. They were getting passed by cars like the 95 of michael mcdowell. Look at the practice sheets every week none of the cars are unloading off the truck fast. if you unload off the truck 25th fastest in the first practice your simply not going to find that much speed for the race.

I think Rick should be embarrassed by what HMS brought to the race track sunday night. Worse yet is despite some luck wins none of the cars have really been in contention in other races. kyle larson is running great, with HMS power so it must not be engines. Anyways thinking dale jr has lost it because he isn't running well is a joke because the rest of the team is terrible. dale jr can't unload 25th and find enough speed after the first practice on friday and be competitive. no one can. its a problem with the car they brought to the race track. The other thing is maybe toyota is sandbagging. how does denny make up 20 seconds on the last run of the race?
 
Toyota sandbagging and HMS still can't run with them.

Must be Gustafson's fault.
 
Is this still a continuation of "HMS is far behind, Jimmie is finally washed up, Chase is a flash in the pan, etc..."?

Its been a sure thing since Indy that they will field atleast 3 cars in the chase. Until races matter more, we wont see their real potential IMO.
 
I'd like to think you're right, but I just don't see how you can count on just being able to turn it on like that. Under the playoff point format, I don't think you can afford to just sit back and cruise all summer. Even if it were part of some master plan, it's still embarrassing to see those cars running that bad. Even if you consider that JR and Kasey are lame ducks, and Jimmie's locked in, that doesn't explain the lack of speed out of the 24. They are a new winner and a mediocre run at Richmond from being on the outside looking in.
 
Chase is +96, I don't think there's a scenario where he doesn't make it.

I say let's wait until Chicago. Chase was 4 laps from winning that race last year and Jimmie also ran well. They know how to ramp it up when it matters, specifically Gustafson. Just look at the 24 team in 2015...

Chase had race winning cars in 3 or 4 of the last 10 races last year.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
Chase is +96, I don't think there's a scenario where he doesn't make it.

I say let's wait until Chicago. Chase was 4 laps from winning that race last year and Jimmie also ran well. They know how to ramp it up when it matters, specifically Gustafson. Just look at the 24 team in 2015...

Chase had race winning cars in 3 or 4 of the last 10 races last year.
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Yea I expect Chase to win that race this year, he dominated last year. I think he will be a threat to make it to Miami they may not have the speed of JGR or Truex (for all we know. They could be sandbagging too) but Hendrick turns it up at playoff time and the 24 team has been consistent all year.
 
I agree with op, Hendrick is behind. Practice and race they are two to three tenths off at their best and you don't make that up at the track.The cars handle fine down the straightaway but don't turn as well as the top eight or so. If Jrs car was good enough he could lead and won. I talked to a retired spotter yesterday and he confirmed what I have suspected, the car is 75 percent and the driver 15 and 10 percent luck. Drivers don't forget how to drive.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
Chase is +96, I don't think there's a scenario where he doesn't make it.

I say let's wait until Chicago. Chase was 4 laps from winning that race last year and Jimmie also ran well. They know how to ramp it up when it matters, specifically Gustafson. Just look at the 24 team in 2015...

Chase had race winning cars in 3 or 4 of the last 10 races last year.
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Chase had winning cars BEFORE the Chase last year too. When's the last time he had one?

Chase is only a couple of points ahead of Kenseth and McMurray. Say Bowyer or Jones wins and Kenseth and McMurray finish 5 spots ahead of Chase. Bye-bye Chase.
 
Formerjackman said:
Except the rules are different now. It's going to be somewhat harder than it was in years past.
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JJ has won it under every chase iteration. Counting that #48 team out is foolish.

Formerjackman said:
Chase is only a couple of points ahead of Kenseth and McMurray.
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Except Chase is +96 and Matt and Jamie are also +90 IIRC. They are pretty much safe barring a new winner.
 
Yes, unless there is a new winner. That is cutting it far too close for my taste. How much money are you willing to bet the 24 can outrun the other two if he NEEDS to? As was mentioned, at times Sunday night, they were getting passed my the 95!

As for Johnson, you are a hell of a lot more optimistic than I am. I have him going out in the second round. Chase, either the first or the second, and Kasey in the first. That entire organization top to bottom is not doing a single thing that impresses me or gives me much hope at the moment.
 
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Well Keith Rodden is still terrible
 
Jimmie and Chase both were up in the top 10, top 5 I believe for Chase at some points during the race. Jr's deal was screwed up because they were going to stay out but had a vibration and had to come in. Then had two loose and couldn't run hard to the finish FWIW.
 
kkfan91 said:
Well Keith Rodden is still terrible
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I was listening to Kahne's radio the entire race. Rodden said they would need to make drastic changes to the handling to get it to do what kahne needed it to. They fixed it a little so he had more drive off, but the changes they needed to make to the rear would have put him at least two laps down. It was very disappointing to say the least. I'm not sure if it's due to Rodden, or the car having a completely wrong setup for a night race at Darlington, but something is very wrong. He got beat by Cole Whitt for crying out loud (great finish for him though!)
 
StandOnIt said:
Jimmie and Chase both were up in the top 10, top 5 I believe for Chase at some points during the race. Jr's deal was screwed up because they were going to stay out but had a vibration and had to come in. Then had two loose and couldn't run hard to the finish FWIW.
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About the ONLY time the 24 and 48 were in the top ten was on tire strategy. On straight up even tires, they were 11-20th place cars.
 
HMS has 23 playoff points combined through their three drivers. Kyle Busch alone has 20. Only one team can points race their way into the championship, and it isn't going to be one of them. You have to be able to win in the playoffs to make it under this format. If you don't have the speed to do so you're screwed.
 
Formerjackman said:
About the ONLY time the 24 and 48 were in the top ten was on tire strategy. On straight up even tires, they were 11-20th place cars.
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I keep a pretty close eye on the leaderboard on my puter and not the TV. With so many commercials and jabbering, I think I spend more time looking at those instead of the race. Fox sports has the best one IMO. Not saying I can't make mistakes, but I watch certain cars pretty close. the 24, and 48 are a couple of them. My best guess was Jimmy probably had a top ten car maybe 8th? But he isn't going to push it unless he sees blood in the water. A guy that has been in the wall as many times as he has isn't going in harms way when he already has a chase berth and decent back up with the bonus points. Chase was racing though. He keeps it clean this week and he points his way in so there is that. Remember Clint was out of it early so Chase needed to finish well and not take a bunch of chances, get all his lug nuts on and get in and out of the pits without problems to set up for this race.
 
Acs said:
HMS has 23 playoff points combined through their three drivers. Kyle Busch alone has 20. Only one team can points race their way into the championship, and it isn't going to be one of them. You have to be able to win in the playoffs to make it under this format. If you don't have the speed to do so you're screwed.
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have you looked at the standings? Johnson and Kahne are already in, Chase is top non winner in points.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
And Rick Hendrick will go another offseason acting as if he had no clue.
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he has been known to switch crews around if necessary. Chex exaggerated a bit about 4 positions every time. Part of that is getting on and off pit road in which Darlington is probably the toughest place to do that, even harder with a inexperienced driver who was playing it conservative. no use making a stupid Hamlin mistake IMO.
 
Presumably the bets being made on an HMS failure for this season are not real money.
 
listening to the presses fluffing it is easy to do I guess. Three out of 4 cars in the playoffs and embarrased?
 
StandOnIt said:
listening to the presses fluffing it is easy to do I guess. Three out of 4 cars in the playoffs and embarrased?
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It's not so much them getting into the chase that's cause for concern, it's simply how poorly, as a team they have been running. It seems like the 24/48 are ok in most cases, but the 88 and 5 are mid pack cars. Granted it could be the fact that Kahne and Jr will be gone next year, so why not put all the work int the 24/48. Which, even in that case the 24/48 have not been running as well as I'd expect them to.
 
metalgod88 said:
It's not so much them getting into the chase that's cause for concern, it's simply how poorly, as a team they have been running. It seems like the 24/48 are ok in most cases, but the 88 and 5 are mid pack cars. Granted it could be the fact that Kahne and Jr will be gone next year, so why not put all the work int the 24/48. Which, even in that case the 24/48 have not been running as well as I'd expect them to.
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Just how well do they need to run to get into the case? Jr's the only one not in it. Johnson and Kahne don't even need to show up if it wasn't for the rule that says they have too. You think they need more data about the tracks in the chase? Chase to go out there and bust his ass not finish the race and take himself out of the chase? what?
 
metalgod88 said:
It's not so much them getting into the chase that's cause for concern, it's simply how poorly, as a team they have been running. It seems like the 24/48 are ok in most cases, but the 88 and 5 are mid pack cars. Granted it could be the fact that Kahne and Jr will be gone next year, so why not put all the work int the 24/48. Which, even in that case the 24/48 have not been running as well as I'd expect them to.
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The 88 is being piloted by a man in his final season coming off a severe brain injury. The 5 is being piloted by a man in his final year with HMS due to underperformance.

Take it for what you will.
 
StandOnIt said:
Just how well do they need to run to get into the case? Jr's the only one not in it. Johnson and Kahne don't even need to show up if it wasn't for the rule that says they have too. You think they need more data about the tracks in the chase? Chase to go out there and bust his ass not finish the race and take himself out of the chase? what?
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I'm not really talking about getting into the chase and didn't understand your last question (sorry). Unless Jr has a miracle, he's the only one out. If you look back in 2012, Hendrick was awesome with his drivers 3rd, 4th, 10th, and 12th in the points at years end. Since that time, it's been Johnson and one other driver doing good and the other two are mid-pack.
 
yep, you got to look at this recent playoff system differently, anybody can go on a hot streak. I believe a round win avances you to the next round? Can't be sure I try not to pay attention, I'm sure we will hear about it ad nausea next weekend. Jabba thinks we all are hard of hearing so he repeats himself.
 
StandOnIt said:
yep, you got to look at this recent playoff system differently, anybody can go on a hot streak. I believe a round win avances you to the next round? Can't be sure I try not to pay attention, I'm sure we will hear about it ad nausea next weekend. Jabba thinks we all are hard of hearing so he repeats himself.
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Yeah, I hate the "win and your in" rule. Because of that, Kyle Busch won a championship when he missed half the season... And I mute the tv broadcast because I can't stand to listen to those guys ramble on for 3.5 hours haha. I'd rather listen to in-car radios / MRN radio.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
24 ran in the top 10 consistently on several runs but only to lose ~4 positions on pit road every stop.
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I just went and looked at the loop data for the 24. High of third (during pit stops) low of 23rd, average of 14th. Percentage of laps in the top 15, 73% which was the 15th highest total. Fast laps 6, (new tires), laps led, 0 driving rating of 82.8, which was the 15th highest. Does that sound like a car that spent much time in the top ten to you? I would say he overachieved to get 11th. :(
 
HMS does seem down overall since 2014. Hopefully the young blood next year will reinvigorate them. Kahne and Jr. have kinda been lame ducks.
 
aunty dive said:
Presumably the bets being made on an HMS failure for this season are not real money.
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I've got a crisp $20 that says none of them make it out of the second round. I would LOVE to be wrong about it, but I doubt it. Gordon's win at Martinsville and Johnson's Hail Mary last year have cleverly disguised the fact that Team Hendrick has been off it's game for quite some time.
 
Formerjackman said:
I've got a crisp $20 that says none of them make it out of the second round. I would LOVE to be wrong about it, but I doubt it. Gordon's win at Martinsville and Johnson's Hail Mary last year have cleverly disguised the fact that Team Hendrick has been off it's game for quite some time.
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I'll take that bet.
 
Formerjackman said:
I just went and looked at the loop data for the 24. High of third (during pit stops) low of 23rd, average of 14th. Percentage of laps in the top 15, 73% which was the 15th highest total. Fast laps 6, (new tires), laps led, 0 driving rating of 82.8, which was the 15th highest. Does that sound like a car that spent much time in the top ten to you? I would say he overachieved to get 11th. :(
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those stats aren't right. His average position was 13th, mid race 10th, his finish was 11th. Came up from a 20th qualifying. And there ain't no way he isn't making the playoffs unless he crashes out early and a non race winner besides JMac or Kenseth wins the race. It has to happen in that order which is a bit far fetched odds wise.
 
Formerjackman said:
I just went and looked at the loop data for the 24. High of third (during pit stops) low of 23rd, average of 14th. Percentage of laps in the top 15, 73% which was the 15th highest total. Fast laps 6, (new tires), laps led, 0 driving rating of 82.8, which was the 15th highest. Does that sound like a car that spent much time in the top ten to you? I would say he overachieved to get 11th. :(
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Doesnt matter where you run. Matters where you brought it home.
 
Formerjackman said:
I've got a crisp $20 that says none of them make it out of the second round. I would LOVE to be wrong about it, but I doubt it. Gordon's win at Martinsville and Johnson's Hail Mary last year have cleverly disguised the fact that Team Hendrick has been off it's game for quite some time.
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Dale Jr & Kahne have been off their game for quite some time IMO.
 
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