If NASCAR is serious about intentionally wrecking other drivers...

MRM

MRM

Team Owner
Joined
Jun 14, 2002
Messages
5,605
Points
793
Location
Powell, TN
If NASCAR is serious about intentionally wrecking other drivers, they should implement the following policy and don't waiver from it.

1. If a driver intentionally wrecks another driver (not counting the last lap), the driver should get a 2-lap penalty and not be eligible for the lucky dog the rest of the race. Penalizing a driver and then allowing them to make up for the penalty via the free pass is dumb.

2. If a driver intentionally wrecks another driver on the last lap, count the win but award ZERO points and do not allow the win to be credited for playoff eligibility or seeding. Make the win as hollow as possible.

These are in-race penalties. This does not include fines, suspensions, etc.

NASCAR needs to get ahold of this now before things really get out of hand. Daytona and Darlington could get out of control without something in place.
 
NASCAR has always been very lenient with contact. That is a part of the sport. Intentional contact being fair game is what makes NASCAR unique on the racing spectrum. Drivers self-police. AD is going to get pushed around a long while now. NASCAR can penalize him for hooking Denny with the same suspension they give everyone else, the one week vacation. That way NASCAR can say they did something, they can base it on precedent, and then let the the field chomp him up the rest of the season.
 
Speedbowl14 said:
NASCAR has always been very lenient with contact. That is a part of the sport. Intentional contact being fair game is what makes NASCAR unique on the racing spectrum. Drivers self-police. AD is going to get pushed around a long while now. NASCAR can penalize him for hooking Denny with the same suspension they give everyone else, the one week vacation. That way NASCAR can say they did something, they can base it on precedent, and then let the the field chomp him up the rest of the season.
Click to expand...
There is a group in racing in that there is never enough rules for them. Racing can never get "fair" enough for their tastes and "there ought to be a rule" is never far from coming out their mouths. The drivers will take care of this, Austin knows it is coming. This type of wrecking rarely happens, but we have some trying to say it happens every race lol. Gerbil Jeff was jumping up an down earlier in the race saying X driver needs to move him about one of the drivers, I wasn't paying that much attention. Then Dillon does his thing and Jeff is the first one to say something. Which one is it?

Myself, I came to see hungry dogs racing their asses off and that is what I saw. If I wanted to watch cars go endlessly round and round I would watch open wheel. Besides mostly stupid mistakes, the racing is pretty boring to me with very little racing and a whole lot of riding around in single file.
 
I thought Denny hit it on head when he essentially said “what’s fair is foul & foul is fair.” NASCAR is fairly consistent in not assessing any meaningful penalties for rough driving so not penalizing AD was not surprising.

Even if NASCAR wanted to do away with incidents like this. I think they’d be overwritten my the networks as it’s the stuff they love.
 
aunty dive said:
Tomorrow is Tuesday.
Click to expand...
It is, but to me, meaningful is the key. Anything less than disallowing the win or his playoff berth is a meaningless penalty with what the move allowed him to achieve. At this point, I would be extremely surprised if they choose anything more than a fine or suspension (With a waiver granted.)
 
AlTerego said:
I thought Denny hit it on head when he essentially said “what’s fair is foul & foul is fair.” NASCAR is fairly consistent in not assessing any meaningful penalties for rough driving so not penalizing AD was not surprising.

Even if NASCAR wanted to do away with incidents like this. I think they’d be overwritten my the networks as it’s the stuff they love.
Click to expand...
Yep, Nascar has been busy on the socials posting about all who have been involved including Reddick who wasn't. Nascar, RCR, and Dillon have been trending on X all day. Tons of interest. All kinds of opinions.
 
Possibly a penalty for intentional wrecking of Logano. Hamlin was just incidental.
Although wrecking the leader has happened a million times in the past.
 
I think Nascar will probably do something. I think 50% that are for boys have at it and 50% that think the other way. It's pretty political and I don't think they are in favor of alienating anybody.
I've read everything from suspending the spotter who was yelling wreck him, wreck him, to taking the win away and fining the heck out of the driver/team and giving the win to whiny B+.
 
Brentford said:
It is, but to me, meaningful is the key. Anything less than disallowing the win or his playoff berth is a meaningless penalty with what the move allowed him to achieve. At this point, I would be extremely surprised if they choose anything more than a fine or suspension (With a waiver granted.)
Click to expand...
That's why NASCAR should say no playoff spot will be given if you wreck someone for the win. It needs to have teeth.
 
Speedbowl14 said:
NASCAR has always been very lenient with contact. That is a part of the sport. Intentional contact being fair game is what makes NASCAR unique on the racing spectrum. Drivers self-police. AD is going to get pushed around a long while now. NASCAR can penalize him for hooking Denny with the same suspension they give everyone else, the one week vacation. That way NASCAR can say they did something, they can base it on precedent, and then let the the field chomp him up the rest of the season.
Click to expand...
I have never been a big fan of the contact thing, but I tolerate it when a trailing driver is faster than the leader. Contact becomes a problem IMO when said contact is used as a tool to mitigate a lack of speed. Here's the bigger problem in the Next Gen era....the cars are all going the same speed much of the time.
 
Partly because of the Richard Childress factor here, I see nothing more than a monetary fine and a one race suspension.

What with KFB having such a crap season, taking the playoff spot from Dillon cuts deeper than NASCAR is willing to go.
 
After listening to 4-5 hours of Nascar on Sirrius XM over the
past day and a half we now wait for NASCARs ruling Tuesday afternoon.
Elton Sawyer will be on The Morning Drive with the Pistol and
Bagman at 8:00 a.m. EST Wed. to discuss.

My guess which I think would be some what fair:
Austin Dillon - $50,000 for the right hook sits out Mich. Keeps win and playoff spot.
Joey Logano- $50,000 for pit road and sits out Mich.
Brandon B (Austins spotter) - Suspended for 1 week for the "wreck em" comment.

These penalties would be in line with other similar incidents in the past.
 
MRM said:
If NASCAR is serious about intentionally wrecking other drivers, they should implement the following policy and don't waiver from it.

1. If a driver intentionally wrecks another driver (not counting the last lap), the driver should get a 2-lap penalty and not be eligible for the lucky dog the rest of the race. Penalizing a driver and then allowing them to make up for the penalty via the free pass is dumb.

2. If a driver intentionally wrecks another driver on the last lap, count the win but award ZERO points and do not allow the win to be credited for playoff eligibility or seeding. Make the win as hollow as possible.

These are in-race penalties. This does not include fines, suspensions, etc.

NASCAR needs to get ahold of this now before things really get out of hand. Daytona and Darlington could get out of control without something in place.
Click to expand...
Can you objectively define "intentionally wreck"? As long as it's not subjective I might get on board. We have seen what happens when race control makes subjective calls during the race.
 
Often NASCAR has its hands tied by perception - was it intentional or not? Usually the offending driver(s) deny that it was intentional, making NASCAR's call harder - but in this case Dillon admitted it, and then he and his car owner and team piled on to justify it.

NASCAR wants to grow, or at least stop its shrinkage, and it wants to be the leading car racing league. It gets a ton of pre-race, race, and post-race coverage and commentary. In the past it realized that while some banging and controversy helps ratings, letting it go overboard costs sponsors and market share. With all of its coverage NASCAR needs to remember that it is shaping the mindsets of young racers, some of whom will become its future stars.

When Earnhardt Sr. was rough-riding his competition, NASCAR and even he admitted that things needed to get toned down. To the nonracing public it appears to be bullying and unsportsmanlike. There are more dollars in the nonracing public than in the hardcore fanbase. I was doing a lot of kart racing when Earnhardt was busting other drivers, and I saw kids in the karts emulating him. Dads were encouraging their kids to copy him. It lead to kids getting hurt and a lot of equipment getting torn up - and several racing teams that quit and were probably lost to racing (as competitors and fans) for good. That does not grow the sport.

"Rubbin' is racin'" is fine, but not "wrecking is racing" or "it's all good if you get what you want". None of these drivers are saints, and both Logano and Hamlin have had their cringeworthy moments too, but still the ends do not justify the means. Poor sportsmanship is usually not what an organization wants to be known for. NASCAR needs the general public to respect it rather than equate it with professional wrestling.

As I've said on another comment thread, we will see if NASCAR decides to crack down on this behavior (and pacify the general public, as has been its marketing policy for at least the past twenty years) or if it decides to placate the bloodthirsty minority who wants to see carnage. Because unless it disciplines this case hard (including Logano endangering people on pit road at the end) it will essentially tell the racers that "do onto others" is okay and that there are no rules during the last laps of a race.
 
To me the answer to whether it’s “okay to intentionally wreck someone in Nascar” has always been to grit your teeth and dodge the question - because it really all depends.

The thread supposes that Nascar might be “serious about intentionally wrecking other drivers” but I don’t think Nascar has ever made such a blanket objective. There are certain situations where it has been determined to be out of bounds and warrant a penalty. Certain kinds of retaliation, for example, have been specifically identified as violations that get penalties. Wrecking a car to attempt to manipulate the playoffs has been ruled a violation.

But I don’t think Nascar has ever said you can’t wreck a guy on the final corner when you’re racing for the win - leaving it up to the drivers to settle it on the track. Wrecking a guy is tricky, you often take yourself out with him. And intent is hard to judge - a bump and run is clearly intentional but is that “intentionally wrecking” when he hits the leader too hard?

Do we really want a rule where if you hit the leader “unreasonably hard” and it causes him to wreck, you get stripped of the pass? Would the leader who knows he’s got a slower car or can’t stop the run of the challenger then be incentivized to draw contact and wreck, hoping to rely on the officials to maybe save his win?

These kinds of deals have been in stock car racing from the beginning. I think Nascar has stepped in when there are specific safety or strategic interests involved but has otherwise let the racing be settled on the track like it always has been.
 
It's a great conversation piece, but what Dillon did rarely if any time happens in Nascar. The sloppiest part to me was the first shot at Logano, no way that wasn't intentional. If that was all there was, Logano would have tried to fight Dillon after he won the race. If all it was when Hamlin came up and they collided? Nothing probably but a lot of Hamlin whining. But because it was Dillon...not popular, ran into the two biggest A holes in the sport, here we go, time to lose our minds.
 
When I watched Estepps video the top comment was

"Knowing NASCAR Austin Dillon could get a slap on the wrist fine or they could televise his execution live on the frontstretch next week"
 
Clutch said:
Possibly a penalty for intentional wrecking of Logano. Hamlin was just incidental.
Although wrecking the leader has happened a million times in the past.
Click to expand...
That is the only way Austin Dillon can win, he did it in Daytona and again Sunday, Dillon's an ass, period.

He wrecked Hamlin on purpose also, so that is three he has wrecked on last lap., pure blatant tolerated
Bull ****.gif


PS: In the booth, Everybody gave the little Sum Bitch a pass for his chicken **** move, bunch of pure T hypocrites.
 
DIDIT said:
Can you objectively define "intentionally wreck"? As long as it's not subjective I might get on board. We have seen what happens when race control makes subjective calls during the race.
Click to expand...
There are instances when that is clear. Dillon on Sunday, Hamlin and Chastain several times, Logano at Kansas to Kenseth, Kenseth's payback at Martinsville, Hamlin dumping Elliott and Martinsville. Those are all clear. Hamlin and Larson, Chastain and Larson are borderline and debatable.
 
Speedbowl14 said:
When I watched Estepps video the top comment was

"Knowing NASCAR Austin Dillon could get a slap on the wrist fine or they could televise his execution live on the frontstretch next week"
Click to expand...
As long as we are commenting, I wouldn't put it past Nascar to drag this out for another day. Get that pot up to boiling.
 
MRM said:
There are instances when that is clear. Dillon on Sunday, Hamlin and Chastain several times, Logano at Kansas to Kenseth, Kenseth's payback at Martinsville, Hamlin dumping Elliott and Martinsville. Those are all clear. Hamlin and Larson, Chastain and Larson are borderline and debatable.
Click to expand...
You forgot Gordon and Boyer.
 
If the penalty falls short of Austin Dillon losing the win or being stripped of his playoff berth, the precedent is set moving forward.

$50,000 fine? ****, if I was in the Final Four, I would have a $150,000 check ($50,000 for each driver that gets wrecked) already written out to NASCAR and signed. I'd hand that check to Steve Phelps during the presentation of the Bill France Cup.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
If the penalty falls short of Austin Dillon losing the win or being stripped of his playoff berth, the precedent is set moving forward.

$50,000 fine? ****, if I was in the Final Four, I would have a $150,000 check ($50,000 for each driver that gets wrecked) already written out to NASCAR and signed. I'd hand that check to Steve Phelps during the presentation of the Bill France Cup.
Click to expand...
Do what? a precedent going forward LOL.
 
gone said:
Often NASCAR has its hands tied by perception - was it intentional or not? Usually the offending driver(s) deny that it was intentional, making NASCAR's call harder - but in this case Dillon admitted it, and then he and his car owner and team piled on to justify it.

NASCAR wants to grow, or at least stop its shrinkage, and it wants to be the leading car racing league. It gets a ton of pre-race, race, and post-race coverage and commentary. In the past it realized that while some banging and controversy helps ratings, letting it go overboard costs sponsors and market share. With all of its coverage NASCAR needs to remember that it is shaping the mindsets of young racers, some of whom will become its future stars.

When Earnhardt Sr. was rough-riding his competition, NASCAR and even he admitted that things needed to get toned down. To the nonracing public it appears to be bullying and unsportsmanlike. There are more dollars in the nonracing public than in the hardcore fanbase. I was doing a lot of kart racing when Earnhardt was busting other drivers, and I saw kids in the karts emulating him. Dads were encouraging their kids to copy him. It lead to kids getting hurt and a lot of equipment getting torn up - and several racing teams that quit and were probably lost to racing (as competitors and fans) for good. That does not grow the sport.

"Rubbin' is racin'" is fine, but not "wrecking is racing" or "it's all good if you get what you want". None of these drivers are saints, and both Logano and Hamlin have had their cringeworthy moments too, but still the ends do not justify the means. Poor sportsmanship is usually not what an organization wants to be known for. NASCAR needs the general public to respect it rather than equate it with professional wrestling.

As I've said on another comment thread, we will see if NASCAR decides to crack down on this behavior (and pacify the general public, as has been its marketing policy for at least the past twenty years) or if it decides to placate the bloodthirsty minority who wants to see carnage. Because unless it disciplines this case hard (including Logano endangering people on pit road at the end) it will essentially tell the racers that "do onto others" is okay and that there are no rules during the last laps of a race.
Click to expand...
I remember one race at Charlotte when they penalized Earnhardt five laps for rough driving after a run in with Geoff Bodine.
 
Greg said:
I remember one race at Charlotte when they penalized Earnhardt five laps for rough driving after a run in with Geoff Bodine.
Click to expand...
Those two were back and fourth a lot. That's why I spit out my coffee when somebody was saying Nascar would set a president lol. Good example. Many more than that. Their president is you never know what they are going to do.
 
sdj said:
That is the only way Austin Dillon can win, he did it in Daytona and again Sunday, Dillon's an ass, period.
Click to expand...
Sure, except you are forgetting that most inconvenient fact that Dillon was about to win the race on merit if not for that final caution.
 
Clutch said:
Sure, except you are forgetting that most inconvenient fact that Dillon was about to win the race on merit if not for that final caution.
Click to expand...
I am not forgetting sh*t. Hasn't got a GD thing to do with what the little a**hole sh*t did coming to the checkers. You can spin it any way you want but, he did not win the race straight up, he cheated by wrecking 2 drivers on PURPOSE.

If you want to get serious about your idea of what went wrong it is the "GREEN WHITE CHECKER" bullsh*t. Paint it any way you want, he did the only thing he knows how to do in a bind and that is wreck others out of the way on the lap coming to the checkers.
 
sdj said:
I am not forgetting sh*t. Hasn't got a GD thing to do with what the little a**hole sh*t did coming to the checkers. You can spin it any way you want but, he did not win the race straight up, he cheated by wrecking 2 drivers on PURPOSE.

If you want to get serious about your idea of what went wrong it is the "GREEN WHITE CHECKER" bullsh*t. Paint it any way you want, he did the only thing he knows how to do in a bind and that is wreck others out of the way on the lap coming to the checkers.
Click to expand...
If there wasn't a Green White Checkers, Dillon would have won the race. He was leading when it came out.
 
sdj said:
I am not forgetting sh*t. Hasn't got a GD thing to do with what the little a**hole sh*t did coming to the checkers. You can spin it any way you want but, he did not win the race straight up, he cheated by wrecking 2 drivers on PURPOSE.

If you want to get serious about your idea of what went wrong it is the "GREEN WHITE CHECKER" bullsh*t. Paint it any way you want, he did the only thing he knows how to do in a bind and that is wreck others out of the way on the lap coming to the checkers.
Click to expand...
..... OK 🤷
 
StandOnIt said:
If there wasn't a Green White Checkers, Dillon would have won the race. He was leading when it came out.
Click to expand...
He has it in the bag. I hated it for him when the caution came out and don’t blame him one bit for sailing it in to move Logano.

Wrecking two cars on the last lap is comical though.
 
Maybe South Boston is hiring.

You’d fit right in there.
 
sdj said:
That is the only way Austin Dillon can win, he did it in Daytona and again Sunday, Dillon's an ass, period.

He wrecked Hamlin on purpose also, so that is three he has wrecked on last lap., pure blatant tolerated View attachment 79788

PS: In the booth, Everybody gave the little Sum Bitch a pass for his chicken **** move, bunch of pure T hypocrites.
Click to expand...
Those guys in the booth are on the payroll.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sdj
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom