If NASCAR is trying to be a true playoff, why is Homestead not a head to head race?

LewTheShoe said:
Regardless of details (such as points to the top 10 or top 15 or even the top 20), there is no question that it is very difficult to actually win races at the Cup level. There are so many things that can go wrong, so many obstacles that must be be overcome. In the interest of fairness, the reward for accomplishing a win needs to be substantially greater than finishing 10th or 15th. And yet Nascar has never recognized that... not under Big Bill France, nor Bill Jr., nor Brian France. There has been a small step taken this year... very small, but at least it's something.

We have people on here who rant on a weekly basis that Nascar hands out freebies like the Lucky Dog, and what a crime that is. Such righteous indignation, ha ha ha. The much greater injustice is propping up the mid-field runners by awarding nearly as many points as the winners get. And yet those who moan about the Lucky Dog conveniently ignore that Nascar has *always* had their rewards system wrong. A points scale that is nearly linear from last place to first place can *never* be fair to the sport's best drivers/best teams. It is overlooked because it has always been that way, but that is no excuse... it has always been a gimmick that is wrong and unfair. And the result has been that the wrong guy has been crowned champion in quite a few years.
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Kinda a sad commentary on their 'championship" systems.

It is in such a state that although people would absolutely argue the pro's and con's of my 15-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 championship points system, if implemented it would be better by default than the points and championship formats put in place by Nascar for over a decade.

But fear not, Brian France has everything under control and no such nonsense will go down under his watch!
 
Minor changes that NASCAR could do with their "playoffs" and "stage racing" that's here to stay:

- Race winner gets 60 points, doesn't matter that you dominate stage 1 & 2, you should get get the most amount of points out of the field if you win the race, period.
- Majors: Daytona 500, Coca-Cola 600, Southern 500, Brickyard 400. Stage racing needs to remain the same and consistent, so make the race winner get 10 playoff points.
- Championship 4: Highest finisher in each stage advances to the final stage for the championship, the two cars that are knocked out are still racing for a title in the event of a guy getting a DNF like Edwards. This setup is similar to what NXS does with Dash4Cash.
 
Split the season into 4 quarters (9 races each). No Chase. At the end of each quarter, every driver gets a mulligan and can remove their worst finishing position with the points reflecting such. After the checkered flag flies at Homestead, the top 2 drivers in points have a 10-lap shootout at Homestead after the "real" race ends. That is the championship race. If one or both cars suffered terminal damage during the non-championship race, the points leader would be crowned champion without having a championship race.

Only providing points to cars in the top-10 or whatever at every race throughout the season would make the races utterly boring. If you're in 20th with 100 laps to go and already down a lap I envision most drivers just parking their cars early. The mulligan system would also likely result in more aggressive racing, especially if a driver had no poor finishes in the first 8 races of a quarter. I do like the 1 point per position format NASCAR currently uses because it rewards consistency, but wish race winners would receive even more bonus points.
 
Give points for positions 1 through 20. Use a graduated scale, so finishing toward the front, gets more points between positions. 80 or 90 points for 1st, and 1 point for 20th. If cars are not in the points with 100 laps to go, they won't park it, because there could still be some mechanical failures, or wrecks that could get them in.
 
Yogisd1 said:
Give points for positions 1 through 20. Use a graduated scale, so finishing toward the front, gets more points between positions. 80 or 90 points for 1st, and 1 point for 20th. If cars are not in the points with 100 laps to go, they won't park it, because there could still be some mechanical failures, or wrecks that could get them in.
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So I favor about three 2nd places to make up one win - and you would give a bump for finishing top ten...

So 1st to 20th: 60-28-26-24-22-20-18-16-14-12-10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 or something like it...

Makes you wonder what herb the France's are smoking - when two random internet posters can come up with championship points systems that are better than anything Nascar had done in decades.

RacerrecaR said:
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Only providing points to cars in the top-10 or whatever at every race throughout the season would make the races utterly boring. If you're in 20th with 100 laps to go and already down a lap I envision most drivers just parking their cars early. ....
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It doesn't work that way in other championships - most motor sport outside the US cuts off the points after/around the top ten to fifteen

You would see some real hard racing towards the end of the race just to get into the points. And hard fights over the points available. Like one does in other forms of motorsports.

People compete harder over scarce resources. Points being the "resource" drivers have to aquire to win championships...

As to what a back marker who's not even really in the race might do or not towards the end; with a 40 car field would anyone really notice or care...

Splitting the difference, top 15 get points:

60-22-20-18-16-14-12-10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1

Why Not? Because Brian France. That's why.
 
The only problem with that point breakdown is, that is too big of a margin between first and second. If a driver can get 3 or 4 wins, that would make him almost impossible to catch.
 
I try to look at the points now as it stands, and to me first place or second or third on down and quite a ways down the line is a driver that won a race..going to be in the playoffs no matter how crappy of a year he will have. It's come down to me just watching the cars race, what is the use getting excited about who is in first place there are so many variables now. It might change for me as the season winds down to the cutoff. Tweaking around with the points for this or that seems like an exercise in futility and frankly more of the same crap we have now. Polishing a turd as far as I am concerned. Personally if there were anybody in charge with half a brain, it should have been a painful learning experience learned way before now that racing can not use a stick n ball like format to crown a season winner.
 
Yogisd1 said:
The only problem with that point breakdown is, that is too big of a margin between first and second. If a driver can get 3 or 4 wins, that would make him almost impossible to catch.
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Actually no. F1 had a similar margin between 1&2 for 40 years. Worked just fine.

36 races a season, plenty of time for things to go wrong for the leader and for others to catch up.
 
TwoZero said:
Actually no. F1 had a similar margin between 1&2 for 40 years. Worked just fine.
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No way. The F1 margin was substantial, but a lot smaller than your proposal...
9.. 6.. 4.. 3.. 2.. 1.

Later it became 10.. 6.. 4.. 3.. 2.. 1. That is perfect IMO. I would not support a scale where first gets triple what second gets. That's an overcorrection.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
Why not make it a championship 40 and let the playoffs start at Daytona and whoever gets the most points throughout the entire season wins the championship?

That's my attempt at old school fanism.. did I pull it off?

Oh wait I forgot this.. :sarcasm:

:youliketh
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Novel idea that always seemed to work until Brian took over with his ultimate wisdom of how to compete with NFL........
 
LewTheShoe said:
No way. The F1 margin was substantial, but a lot smaller than your proposal...
9.. 6.. 4.. 3.. 2.. 1.

Later it became 10.. 6.. 4.. 3.. 2.. 1. That is perfect IMO. I would not support a scale where first gets triple what second gets. That's an overcorrection.
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Yup you're right, serves me right for firing off a quick reply before heading out the door - I stand corrected.
Better to be right than quick!
So for similar to 10-6...

36-22-20-18-16-14-12-10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1


SlicedBread22 said:
Why not make it a championship 40 and let the playoffs start at Daytona and whoever gets the most points throughout the entire season wins the championship?
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"Championship 40" has a nice ring to it - would be good for promotion.

Somehow I get the feeling Brian France would have been happier as the owner of an NFL franchise, but Nascar is the toy he has...
 
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