Indy experiment?

They should run that race first week in Feb. so when they do Daytona it will seem so much better.

:biggrin:
 
The sad thing about all this is it's almost like NASCAR doesn't know how or why pack racing happens. It isn't just the aero package, as we saw with the sprint cup test last year, and it isn't just the plates like we'll see this year. It's both, plus the design of the track, and yet they try and sell us every year on "this will be just like 'Dega! it will be great!" and it's not. For a sport that's been running real pack races since 1988 you would think they would be smart enough to know why they work and know that what's been tried at Indy isn't it.
 
Acs said:
The sad thing about all this is it's almost like NASCAR doesn't know how or why pack racing happens. It isn't just the aero package, as we saw with the sprint cup test last year, and it isn't just the plates like we'll see this year. It's both, plus the design of the track, and yet they try and sell us every year on "this will be just like 'Dega! it will be great!" and it's not. For a sport that's been running real pack races since 1988 you would think they would be smart enough to know why they work and know that what's been tried at Indy isn't it.
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I don't think pack racing is a desirable form of racing, regardless of how it's achieved. I think NASCAR is hoping to keep the field artificially bunched up. This will result in more cautions, which will result in more restarts, which will result in bunched-up fields, which will result in more cautions...
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I don't think pack racing is a desirable form of racing, regardless of how it's achieved. I think NASCAR is hoping to keep the field artificially bunched up. This will result in more cautions, which will result in more restarts, which will result in bunched-up fields, which will result in more cautions...
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Ok, regardless of what you think about pack racing, many people like it, many don't. My point was that it would be better for all if we had a sanctioning body that was actually competent enough to understand and achieve what it set out to do instead of bumbling around the bush.
 
Acs said:
The sad thing about all this is it's almost like NASCAR doesn't know how or why pack racing happens.
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Charlie Spencer said:
I don't think pack racing is a desirable form of racing, regardless of how it's achieved.
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Charlie, I don't like pack racing either, but many do, as Acs pointed out. Daytona and Talladega are very popular races with Nascar fans. Indycar fans love pack racing, which is the result of moderate horsepower coupled with huge downforce. The Indy 500 is similar to Nascar's Firecracker 400. Indycar at Fontana is like Talladega, effectively a 500-mile straightaway. Indycars weigh ~1,500 pounds, and generate around 6,000 pounds of downforce on some tracks (I don't know Indy 500 downforce numbers, but it's not that much lower). And Brian France has said many times that he wants more pack racing as a way to generate numbers in his (misguided IMO) metric of more passes for the lead.

IMO the way to produce good racing at Indy is the same recipe as at every other high speed track: High horsepower, low downforce, high delta between straightaway terminal speed and mid-corner speed, substantial need for heavy braking into corners. I'd be OK with a dedicated engine and aero package just for Indy (and maybe Pocono). Or move it to the Indy road course.
 
LewTheShoe said:
... Indycar fans love pack racing, which is the result of moderate horsepower coupled with huge downforce. ...
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Funny, I don't recall much pack racing in IndyCar the last few years. They seem to get spread out after a restart at about the same rate as NASCAR. If that's what those fans are after (and I count myself as one), they're certainly not getting it like it happens at plate tracks.

I'm with you on the road course.
 
^ Indy is not a tight, side-by-side pack like Nascar plate races, but Indy is similar in that aerodynamics define and control the race, and slower cars in the lead draft can keep up with faster cars and can easily pass them to take the lead. That is why you can get 40 or 50 or 68 passes for the lead in the Indy 500.

I'm not saying it is easy to drive the Indy 500, but for me, my enthusiasm is dampened by in-car audio of the cars droning on lap after lap, never lifting, never braking... just working the draft... like Daytona. Just my $0.02.
 
LewTheShoe said:
^ Indy is not a tight, side-by-side pack like Nascar plate races, but Indy is similar in that aerodynamics define and control the race, and slower cars in the lead draft can keep up with faster cars and can easily pass them to take the lead. That is why you can get 40 or 50 or 68 passes for the lead in the Indy 500.

I'm not saying it is easy to drive the Indy 500, but for me, my enthusiasm is dampened by in-car audio of the cars droning on lap after lap, never lifting, never braking... just working the draft... like Daytona. Just my $0.02.
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We must be using the term 'pack racing' differently. No foul.
 
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