Is it Time to Mandate Air Conditioning in These Cars?

aunty dive said:
What sort of system? Cool suit or a more conventional automotive-based setup?
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I was thinking more of a typical automotive AC. But if a cool suit could be made that would actually last the length of an event it would be just as good if not better. And honestly it wouldn't even need to be a full blown AC, I'm sure something could be designed that at least blows cooler than what they're getting in their helmets currently.
 
My car has cooling in the drivers seat - it is sweet.

The teams will continue to develop cool suits & helmets. I doubt they'd want any power accessory running off the engine but they'll have consider the trade offs of adding a battery powered system to run a cooling system. Chances are they won't go to the next level until someone is incapacitated from the heat.
 
Sure require the Delco A/C unit and also add mandatory Dasani re-hydration stop in the middle of each Geico segment then a Johny Porti bathroom break half way through the race. <sarcasm>
 
If we are adding AC, then we better add a passenger seat for the WAGS to tell the drivers where to go and how to drive. Maybe they can add a back seat for friends! These are sedan stock cars.
 
You guys can make a mockery out of the idea if you want - It's pretty obvious that the over exaggerated examples aren't in any way related to what I'm suggesting however and don't even come close to serving the same purpose or addressing the issue that I (foolishly) attempted to discuss here. Maybe if one of these guys pass out in their car during an event or afterward you'll be singing a different tune. Either that, or that driver will be viewed as someone that needs to improve their stamina :rolleyes:.

They at the very least need to find a way to get cooler (not 85 degree) air to these guys by some means. Ryan Newman's legs got burned at Phoenix and he said he started to feel other physical effects towards the end of that race. What other sport is putting their athletes at this kind of risk? In football they have fans blowing cool mist on the players on the sidelines, and heaters in the winter months. How is this any different? It isn't.
 
Bucky Badger said:
Find a new job. These guys know what they are in for when they sign the dotted line.
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That's like saying we shouldn't feel sorry for a police officer or soldier who gets shot...you know, cause it's "part of the job".
 
Bucky Badger said:
Don't put words in my mouth.
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I didn't. Which is why I said "that's like saying". Because it's the same premise.

How about this one: We shouldn't feel sorry for anyone who has gotten harmed or worse in a race car because they knew what they were signing up for?

My point is, these guys are doing something as innocent as driving race cars for a living, it's already dangerous enough. So why not eliminate the other factors that put them in harm's way while inside & operating the car? It doesn't make them less manly, that's short sighted thinking and we've seen the tragic results of that mindset in this sport already. And it doesn't taint the sport - this isn't stage racing or chase formats we're talking about.

Like I said, I'm neither for or against it, I'm just trying to figure why those that are so adamantly against feel the way they do.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
You guys can make a mockery out of the idea if you want - It's pretty obvious that the over exaggerated examples aren't in any way related to what I'm suggesting however and don't even come close to serving the same purpose or addressing the issue that I (foolishly) attempted to discuss here. Maybe if one of these guys pass out in their car during an event or afterward you'll be singing a different tune. Either that, or that driver will be viewed as someone that needs to improve their stamina :rolleyes:.

They at the very least need to find a way to get cooler (not 85 degree) air to these guys by some means. Ryan Newman's legs got burned at Phoenix and he said he started to feel other physical effects towards the end of that race. What other sport is putting their athletes at this kind of risk? In football they have fans blowing cool mist on the players on the sidelines, and heaters in the winter months. How is this any different? It isn't.
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I like your discussion.

Until the Crew Chiefs and Engineers have to work in the same conditions, don't expect a solution from their end to accomodate "whiny" and prima donna overpaid drivers. The drivers can argue that their performance will be enhanced, but good luck with that -- as the aforementioned CCs and Engineers are more concerned for the performance of their 4 wheel rocketships, than they are about the drivers, unless the drivers can prove enhanced performance.

As for Newman, we've put humans into space since the 1960's and brought them back safely through the intense heat of re-entry, this is solvable. The solutions are out there, but the CCs and Engineers are the reasons they're not implemented -- probably based on requirements, priorities, money, performance yield, etc...

If JGR can build a supposed "million" dollar air gun to increase the performance of their crew, there probably isn't much they can't solve if they want to -- but the CCs and Engineers want performance before they put another ounce in their race cars, especially in certain areas.

But there is hope, as the ****pit has become more friendly through the years ergonomically, as well as for individual driver preference. But you can thank Jimmie for weaponizing his Cup Holder, when he pancaked Junior into the wall. They should take his cupholders and give him a Camelbak. I can see the Crew Chiefs shaking their heads and say, "We try to help you drivers, and all you do is wreck stuff, complain, and make more demands."
 
AdoubleU24 said:
You guys can make a mockery out of the idea if you want - It's pretty obvious that the over exaggerated examples aren't in any way related to what I'm suggesting however and don't even come close to serving the same purpose or addressing the issue that I (foolishly) attempted to discuss here. Maybe if one of these guys pass out in their car during an event or afterward you'll be singing a different tune. Either that, or that driver will be viewed as someone that needs to improve their stamina :rolleyes:.

They at the very least need to find a way to get cooler (not 85 degree) air to these guys by some means. Ryan Newman's legs got burned at Phoenix and he said he started to feel other physical effects towards the end of that race. What other sport is putting their athletes at this kind of risk? In football they have fans blowing cool mist on the players on the sidelines, and heaters in the winter months. How is this any different? It isn't.
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An air condition or cool suit would not have prevented Newman's injury.

Football has coolers and heaters on the sideline, not on the frickin' field while the game is being played. That's a lousy analogy; it equates to putting misters in the pits, not the cars.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
You guys can make a mockery out of the idea if you want ...
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I'll try to engage you.

Cool suits are problematic because they're bulky and the tubing sewn into the suit creates comfort issues in the seat after a short time. The suit itself / coolant / coolant chest / pump / wiring, etc. adds weight and if placed where the engineers want it - low and left, it's right in front of or behind the engine oil dry sump tank ... full of 240 degree lubricant. In addition to the air blower for the helmet, the pump draws amperage from an electrical charging system already taxed.

A derivative of a more conventional automotive A/C system requires an additional (small) radiator, a large pump driven by the engine, a recovery tank, plumbing, ducting and vents, wiring and another large fan motor driven off the battery / charging system.
All of that adds more weight than the suit system and none of it can be placed where it would be wanted. There is no insulation in the cabin of the car other than that beneath the false floor under the driver's feet ... bare sheetmetal everywhere and all of it heat-sinking from the engine / exhaust system / transmission / rear end / brakes. It's 140 degrees in there because of all those things. Additionally, the driver's "door" window is wide open ... less than ideal for air conditioning. No automotive-based system that I'm aware of could cope with half of all that.

The best "remedy" is proper hydration for several days prior to the event. That's for someone who religiously engages in a conditioning program specifically designed for this stuff. See Jimmie Johnson. I have no idea how Tony Stewart survived. I do recall him soiling himself in the car on one occasion.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Another lousy analogy. You're comparing sports to public service. One's entertainment, the other is a required public service.
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It's all based around the premise that when one signs on the dotted line they are subjected to everything that comes with it and have zero room to gripe. My issue with that is exactly what you said - it's entertainment. Therefore, since these guys are doing something as silly as driving race cars for a living, shouldn't we try and control all controllable variables for the sake of their health? Reacting once something eventually does happen is short sighted like I said.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
An air condition or cool suit would not have prevented Newman's injury.

Football has coolers and heaters on the sideline, not on the frickin' field while the game is being played. That's a lousy analogy; it equates to putting misters in the pits, not the cars.
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The general idea being they protect their athletes from the extreme elements as much as they feasibly can because they know the dangers involved. They even have heated mats and benches. Obviously there's nothing that can be done on the playing field that would accomplish this, but there is in a race car...

If the cabin temp in Newman's car wasn't what it was, there is a chance that whatever he burned himself on wouldn't have been as hot as it was also. But that is speculating, I don't know what it was that he touched.
 
Nascar already isnt considered a real sport by the mainstream.

Adding AC to a sport that already has cooling fans to athletes who sit down all day would forever mark them as a buncha wusses.

Besides, the drivers have coolers full of ice bags that they shove down their firesuits during pitstops.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
You guys can make a mockery out of the idea if you want - It's pretty obvious that the over exaggerated examples aren't in any way related to what I'm suggesting however and don't even come close to serving the same purpose or addressing the issue that I (foolishly) attempted to discuss here. Maybe if one of these guys pass out in their car during an event or afterward you'll be singing a different tune. Either that, or that driver will be viewed as someone that needs to improve their stamina :rolleyes:.

They at the very least need to find a way to get cooler (not 85 degree) air to these guys by some means. Ryan Newman's legs got burned at Phoenix and he said he started to feel other physical effects towards the end of that race. What other sport is putting their athletes at this kind of risk? In football they have fans blowing cool mist on the players on the sidelines, and heaters in the winter months. How is this any different? It isn't.
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What other sport has overweight 40 year olds in it?
 
Cholo said:
What other sport has overweight 40 year olds in it?
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:XXROFL:

bowler11.jpg
 
aunty dive said:
I'll try to engage you.

Cool suits are problematic because they're bulky and the tubing sewn into the suit creates comfort issues in the seat after a short time. The suit itself / coolant / coolant chest / pump / wiring, etc. adds weight and if placed where the engineers want it - low and left, it's right in front of or behind the engine oil dry sump tank ... full of 240 degree lubricant. In addition to the air blower for the helmet, the pump draws amperage from an electrical charging system already taxed.

A derivative of a more conventional automotive A/C system requires an additional (small) radiator, a large pump driven by the engine, a recovery tank, plumbing, ducting and vents, wiring and another large fan motor driven off the battery / charging system.
All of that adds more weight than the suit system and none of it can be placed where it would be wanted. There is no insulation in the cabin of the car other than that beneath the false floor under the driver's feet ... bare sheetmetal everywhere and all of it heat-sinking from the engine / exhaust system / transmission / rear end / brakes. It's 140 degrees in there because of all those things. Additionally, the driver's "door" window is wide open ... less than ideal for air conditioning. No automotive-based system that I'm aware of could cope with half of all that.

The best "remedy" is proper hydration for several days prior to the event. That's for someone who religiously engages in a conditioning program specifically designed for this stuff. See Jimmie Johnson. I have no idea how Tony Stewart survived. I do recall him soiling himself in the car on one occasion.
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Excellent
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Bobby and Cale didn't need air.
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Several of that era used to drive their passenger cars ,leading up to some events, with the heat on and windows up for hours at a time to acclimate themselves. Read it in a biography about Bobby, I believe, a few years ago.
 
Dick, Bobby, and Cale had a lot more air flowing through the cabin that today's cars, with their emphasis on aerodynamics.
 
Nah. They are pampered enough. Make it hard, more rewarding.
 
OK...

That does it.

I will not go to another left coast race until the racing machines are air conditioned.
 
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