ISC Earnings Down in 2016

BobbyFord

BobbyFord

Secret Agent Man
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Shocker. NASCAR still doesn't get it. While I suspect the absence of stars like Jeff, Tony and Dale may have impacted sales, it goes beyond that. NASCAR is disconnecting with it's core fan base. There aren't any new drivers that are similar to Jeff, Tony and Dale coming into the sport.
I took a lot of flak a few years ago when I said attendance and ratings would continue to plummet. The trend continues and NASCAR will continue to lose fans, for a number of reasons. Primarily because NASCAR refuses to hear the fan base.

http://nascar.nbcsports.com/2017/01...ewart-as-impacting-admission-revenue-in-2016/
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I don't remember one person on here ever disagreeing with that notion. There's still nothing to indicate that there will be an increase in attendance or viewership.
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What I miss the most are friends that were Nascar fans. It was common place for parties every weekend for the races and camping with friends at the tracks for several days for a race. Those day's are gone. No more meeting at someone's house or a local watering hole for a race. All but a couple of the long time fans that we've met at the tracks for years are no longer interested in Nascar. Every bar in town had at least one TV tuned to anything Nascar but now It's hard to get them to tune in to any race, even the Daytona 500. Life goes on.
 
Johali said:
What I miss the most are friends that were Nascar fans. It was common place for parties every weekend for the races and camping with friends at the tracks for several days for a race. Those day's are gone. No more meeting at someone's house or a local watering hole for a race. All but a couple of the long time fans that we've met at the tracks for years are no longer interested in Nascar. Every bar in town had at least one TV tuned to anything Nascar but now It's hard to get them to tune in to any race, even the Daytona 500. Life goes on.
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We still do Daytona 500, Charlotte 600, Daytona 400 & Darlington get togethers. While it's not the same as it once was, we still have a great time. Of course, beer is involved.....
 
Johali said:
What I miss the most are friends that were Nascar fans. It was common place for parties every weekend for the races and camping with friends at the tracks for several days for a race. Those day's are gone. No more meeting at someone's house or a local watering hole for a race. All but a couple of the long time fans that we've met at the tracks for years are no longer interested in Nascar. Every bar in town had at least one TV tuned to anything Nascar but now It's hard to get them to tune in to any race, even the Daytona 500. Life goes on.
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:(
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
We still do Daytona 500, Charlotte 600, Daytona 400 & Darlington get togethers. While it's not the same as it once was, we still have a great time. Of course, beer is involved.....
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We still get together for the Darlington race also,still hang out together with our wife's.We had a great time together last year at Myrtle Beach for the car show weekend,loved the rat rods.
 
Those get togethers that we do on those three holiday weekends also include non-NASCAR fans. I've posted pics in the past of the outdoor screen that we view the races on from the comfort of our campfire. It's not unusual to have 20+ people there.

I also posted a simple, yet rewarding game that can get those non-NASCAR fans turned into NASCAR fans for the evening. We write the car numbers down on little pieces of paper. Fold them and place them into a cup. Everyone pitches in $5 and pulls a number from the cup. If there are enough pieces/car numbers left for everyone to pick again, we have the people pick in the reverse order of the first time around. If there aren't enough for everyone to get a pick, we fold pieces of blank picks to make sure everyone gets a chance at a pick and go back through the process. Some people may end up with one or two car numbers but everyone gets an equal chance. In the end, winner takes all. We've been doing this for a long time. It's even created some new NASCAR fans as they have a vested interest in the race.
 
Johali said:
What I miss the most are friends that were Nascar fans. It was common place for parties every weekend for the races and camping with friends at the tracks for several days for a race. Those day's are gone. No more meeting at someone's house or a local watering hole for a race. All but a couple of the long time fans that we've met at the tracks for years are no longer interested in Nascar. Every bar in town had at least one TV tuned to anything Nascar but now It's hard to get them to tune in to any race, even the Daytona 500. Life goes on.
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My experience has been the same as local taverns used to have "Welcome Races Fans" signage and some conducted weekly pools and games. There were always parties for Daytona and other races and people to talk to about what was going on in Nascar plus people had license tags and decals on their cars and trucks and wore Nascar merchandise. I used to sit beside and around the same people every year at races until one by one they all left and my buddies and I were the last ones. I don't want to be melodramatic but it is sad when you stop and think about it.
 
Johali said:
What I miss the most are friends that were Nascar fans. It was common place for parties every weekend for the races and camping with friends at the tracks for several days for a race. Those day's are gone. No more meeting at someone's house or a local watering hole for a race. All but a couple of the long time fans that we've met at the tracks for years are no longer interested in Nascar. Every bar in town had at least one TV tuned to anything Nascar but now It's hard to get them to tune in to any race, even the Daytona 500. Life goes on.
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I feel your pain man.
 
Someone on here argued with me that losing dale jr, tony, and Jeff didn't matter and had nothing to do with NASCAR having trouble finding a title sponsor. I wish I rembered who they were
 
NASCAR is in Graveyard Spiral, flown by pilot Brian France. The pilot isn't sure of the horizon (usually due to poor situational awareness and improper training) and believes he is in level flight. Unfortunately, he is in a slight bank and noticing the altimeter dropping, he pulls back on the yoke to gain altitude, but the tighter the spiral becomes until...

220px-FAA_PHAK_2008_Fig_16-5_Graveyard_spiral.png
 
I just am most appreciative that I started watching from an early age and was able to witness the greatest years.... (maybe not from the start on the beach.... but... starting about '64....).... From '64 to '79... it was mostly just watching Wide World of Sports or reading everything that was printed..... anything to catch the latest news..... after '79.... the next 25 years ..... wouldn't miss a race because it was telecast and the Sport was everything that it should be and I was actually watching and attending races that I only dreamed of years ago...... It was all encompassing.......


Then the Redi-whip can began to fizzle...... it eventually turned to all air......
 
It won't be long (probably this season) that I will find myself watching races alone .............. most all my family is losing interest fast
 
I know it is popular o blame everything on Brian as if he is top dog but lets remember "he is only an employee" CEO. His sister and uncle are the major share holders and when it comes down to it, they are the ones who must face the shareholders. Hellman is second in command and I think he is more responsible for some of the crazy things Nascar does. Now there are about 5 people under Hellman who are responsible for different aspects of the racing. Are they not responsible for anything?

Racing itself is a dying sport in every form and it will shrink until it finds it's little notch in the entertainment field. Of course that means going back to 10 million dollar sponsors, and 1-3 million dollar drivers. It also means the elaborate 3 and 4 day shows are becoming a thing of the past.
Cars will arrive from the shop race ready and get a couple hrs practice before qualifying. Cars will be locked down after qualifying and will start the race as is.
It doesn't matter because the racing will still be the same.
 
I wonder how long it will be before groups like ISC feel the continuing downward trends and step into NASCAR's office to suggest regressive changes.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
I wonder how long it will be before groups like ISC feel the continuing downward trends and step into NASCAR's office to suggest regressive changes.
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Are you kidding? Did you not see the ISC and SMI guys on the stage last Monday? They are involved up to their eyeballs.

Regarding the Nascar power structure, I wonder if Betty Jane France controlled that from her position as family matriarch, and whether her passing might change that dynamic. Time will tell, I suppose.
 
BobbyFord said:
Shocker. NASCAR still doesn't get it. While I suspect the absence of stars like Jeff, Tony and Dale may have impacted sales, it goes beyond that. NASCAR is disconnecting with it's core fan base. There aren't any new drivers that are similar to Jeff, Tony and Dale coming into the sport.
I took a lot of flak a few years ago when I said attendance and ratings would continue to plummet. The trend continues and NASCAR will continue to lose fans, for a number of reasons. Primarily because NASCAR refuses to hear the fan base.

http://nascar.nbcsports.com/2017/01...ewart-as-impacting-admission-revenue-in-2016/
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So, if they were truthful about the attendance and ratings decline, would that be better? Could you see ISC state...In general the element of danger has been removed from racing, the fans no longer have the opportunity for personnel interaction with our drivers, our increase in prices are not consistent with the growth of the economy and since we attempt to fabricate dramatic finishes by throwing bogus cautions we are in a spiral of decline and are not sure how we can recover...

Now, that would bring investors out of the woodwork I am sure!
 
dave corthell said:
So, if they were truthful about the attendance and ratings decline, would that be better? Could you see ISC state...In general the element of danger has been removed from racing, the fans no longer have the opportunity for personnel interaction with our drivers, our increase in prices are not consistent with the growth of the economy and since we attempt to fabricate dramatic finishes by throwing bogus cautions we are in a spiral of decline and are not sure how we can recover...

Now, that would bring investors out of the woodwork I am sure!
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The outcome is the same.
 
BobbyFord said:
The outcome is the same.
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NASCAR tracks have reduced seating to "enhance the fan experience."

"Among the reasons given for the reduction of practice is that teams stated they did not need as much on-track time. The changes also are being done to make the weekend more efficient."

NASCAR made drastic changes to the races and points system this year to "enhance" the racing.

Pretty soon, NASCAR will be extinct.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
I wonder how long it will be before groups like ISC feel the continuing downward trends and step into NASCAR's office to suggest regressive changes.
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ISC/NASCAR and SMI behave like losing over half your audience is quite normal and perfectly acceptable. They have been fiddling while NASCAR has burned over the past 15 years after all.
 
"we cannot have races at North wilksboro, it doesn't hold the hundred thousand asses that the 1.5ers can."

Bring back a short track schedule, cut Kansas, Texas, Michigan, and New Hampshire down to one race, and the hemorrhaging will stop. It won't fix the problem, nothing short of hundred water cooler moments will do that, but it will keep the base from totally disbanding.
 
joe h said:
"we cannot have races at North wilksboro, it doesn't hold the hundred thousand asses that the 1.5ers can."

Bring back a short track schedule, cut Kansas, Texas, Michigan, and New Hampshire down to one race, and the hemorrhaging will stop. It won't fix the problem, nothing short of hundred water cooler moments will do that, but it will keep the base from totally disbanding.
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I would love to see more short tracks and road courses on the schedule and would like to think that it would increase interest but it likely wouldn't. A lot of people that liked the action of years past are as dead as the brain cells in Brian France's head and the responsible thing for Nascar to do is find a product that young people will give support too.
 
darlingtonfan said:
But to see how few races Brian France bothers to attend,it doesn't surprise me.
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Yeah, I guess I was not totally surprised by his presence at the press conference. He stood on the stage for 10 seconds and said here talk to this other guy and thanks for coming. As if he had no hand in these changes at all.

It's as if he said, "Well it's your problem, not mine. Go do whatever you want. I don't care."
 
LouieLouie said:
Yeah, I guess I was not totally surprised by his presence at the press conference. He stood on the stage for 10 seconds and said here talk to this other guy and thanks for coming. As if he had no hand in these changes at all.

It's as if he said, "Well it's your problem, not mine. Go do whatever you want. I don't care."
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It seems like Brian is in the position he is in due to family obligation rather than the love of it. Of course I am only speculating but he just seems like a fish out of water that would rather toil away at something in a windowless office.
 
On a slightly different but related note, I had an interesting conversation with a sports fan at the local watering hole. We started talking about hockey of all things which moved on to baseball, etc. But he made a comment about the hockey team and baseball team moving into new stadiums in the future and both of the new stadiums would be significantly smaller with far fewer seats. I asked why, and he said well they can sell out the stadium more often and raise ticket prices.

It makes total sense to me especially when the teams aren't championship quality teams. Why have a 50k seat stadium when you can only put 20k butts in the seats on a regular basis?

Just as a reference, I have friends that wanted to go to spring training baseball for the Chicago Cubs. The stadium seats something like 15k people. This is for pre-season baseball game where the actual major league players only show up on occasion to play 3 innings of baseball. So most players are AAA level type (minor league/xfinity series type) players. My friends looked into tickets, and lawn seats, were $50 each. A lawn seat is the cheapest ticket at these parks because it is just that, a patch of grass in the outfield for you to put a blanket on and watch the game. There is no actual physical seat for your $50 entry fee and you have to fight everyone else to get a patch of grass.

I have little doubt that most other sports will start moving in this direction. Smaller stadiums with less seating and higher ticket prices. I think I have just depressed myself. ugh.
 
LouieLouie said:
On a slightly different but related note, I had an interesting conversation with a sports fan at the local watering hole. We started talking about hockey of all things which moved on to baseball, etc. But he made a comment about the hockey team and baseball team moving into new stadiums in the future and both of the new stadiums would be significantly smaller with far fewer seats. I asked why, and he said well they can sell out the stadium more often and raise ticket prices.

It makes total sense to me especially when the teams aren't championship quality teams. Why have a 50k seat stadium when you can only put 20k butts in the seats on a regular basis?

Just as a reference, I have friends that wanted to go to spring training baseball for the Chicago Cubs. The stadium seats something like 15k people. This is for pre-season baseball game where the actual major league players only show up on occasion to play 3 innings of baseball. So most players are AAA level type (minor league/xfinity series type) players. My friends looked into tickets, and lawn seats, were $50 each. A lawn seat is the cheapest ticket at these parks because it is just that, a patch of grass in the outfield for you to put a blanket on and watch the game. There is no actual physical seat for your $50 entry fee and you have to fight everyone else to get a patch of grass.

I have little doubt that most other sports will start moving in this direction. Smaller stadiums with less seating and higher ticket prices. I think I have just depressed myself. ugh.
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Those smaller stadiums also provide a closer more immersive or intimate setting. In short a Fenway Park, Wrigley Feild etc is more like a Martinville, Wilkesboro, or Bristol.
And the bland Astrodome types are the equivalent of a cookie cutter. A bean counters souless dream.

Baseball got it and had enough common sense to at least get a little closer to what built them. While Nascar keeps thinking they can make chicken salad out of the mistakes. Less seating at a cookie cutter doesnt restore what they have taken away. As dumb as thinking removed seating at an Astrodome would render a Fenway park or Wrigley Feild.
It only reveals more of a whistling by the graveyard stupidity.
 
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Most sports teams just want a more intimate experience for the well-heeled fans who will spend their money on all the amenities. The great unwashed (like myself) can view it on TV. It is what it is.
 
LouieLouie said:
On a slightly different but related note, I had an interesting conversation with a sports fan at the local watering hole. We started talking about hockey of all things which moved on to baseball, etc. But he made a comment about the hockey team and baseball team moving into new stadiums in the future and both of the new stadiums would be significantly smaller with far fewer seats. I asked why, and he said well they can sell out the stadium more often and raise ticket prices.

It makes total sense to me especially when the teams aren't championship quality teams. Why have a 50k seat stadium when you can only put 20k butts in the seats on a regular basis?

Just as a reference, I have friends that wanted to go to spring training baseball for the Chicago Cubs. The stadium seats something like 15k people. This is for pre-season baseball game where the actual major league players only show up on occasion to play 3 innings of baseball. So most players are AAA level type (minor league/xfinity series type) players. My friends looked into tickets, and lawn seats, were $50 each. A lawn seat is the cheapest ticket at these parks because it is just that, a patch of grass in the outfield for you to put a blanket on and watch the game. There is no actual physical seat for your $50 entry fee and you have to fight everyone else to get a patch of grass.

I have little doubt that most other sports will start moving in this direction. Smaller stadiums with less seating and higher ticket prices. I think I have just depressed myself. ugh.
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I can't speak to baseball but I know that in hockey the Calgary Flames need a new barn and when it is built it will have between 18-21K seats. The Arizona Coyotes will be moving into a new building in a few years and it will seat 16K and when the New York Islanders relocate back to the Island or to Queens they will be in an arena that will house over 16K. The Vegas Golden Knights begin their inaugural season this fall and will play in the T-Mobile arena on the strip and I believe that seats about 18K for hockey. I almost forgot that the Detroit Red Wings will be moving to a new building this fall and it will seat 20K for hockey and the Edmonton Oilers moved to a new building this season that seats 19K. IDK where your friend got the idea that NHL arenas were contracting as it is not the case.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I can't speak to baseball but I know that in hockey the Calgary Flames need a new barn and when it is built it will have between 18-21K seats. The Arizona Coyotes will be moving into a new building in a few years and it will seat 16K and when the New York Islanders relocate back to the Island or to Queens they will be in an arena that will house over 16K. The Vegas Golden Knights begin their inaugural season this fall and will play in the T-Mobile arena on the strip and I believe that seats about 18K for hockey. I almost forgot that the Detroit Red Wings will be moving to a new building this fall and it will seat 20K for hockey and the Edmonton Oilers moved to a new building this season that seats 19K. IDK where your friend got the idea that NHL arenas were contracting as it is not the case.
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Sorry didn't mean to touch a nerve! haha
We were mainly talking about the AZ teams. As you mentioned the Coyotes are going from I think 18k seating to 16k seating and they are sharing the facility with ASU. The DBacks are complaining about their facility being old (which is a joke) but they want to move into a much smaller stadium, possibly one of the spring training stadiums that only seat about 15-20k which is a significant drop from their current stadium, 49k. There was no talk that hockey was doing poorly, just that teams are moving to smaller stadiums to make more money. IMO Hockey has one of the best products in sports right now. I watched the all-star skills competition for the first time last weekend and thought it was a ton of fun to watch. My wife and I also went to a Coyotes game for the first time this season. It was a ton of fun and I would definitely go back. Too bad the Coyotes suck and are currently located on the AZ/CA border. I think I'll go a lot more often when they get relocated back into town.
 
I didn't see anything in the article that said earning were down.
 
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