Tennessee Racing
Formerly Stewart Fan
Say what you will about Texas, I just hope we see this after the race.
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
Kansas and Chicago do suck, same with Kentucky. I'd rather see them tear down Kentucky Speedway and go race at Churchill Downs.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
I agree, the stands look pretty full. I'd like to see that too.
Tennessee Racing
Formerly Stewart Fan
I agree, the stands look pretty full. I'd like to see that too.
Well played
There are several tracks that suck far worse then Texas, in my book the D-shaped tracks (California, Michigan, Kansas, Chicagoland.) suck a lot worse then the dog-legged tracks (Atlanta, Texas, Charlotte) though of those 3 Texas is the worst.
It amazes me how much many, many of you complain about tracks. I can see where a race may look boring on TV, but I have never been to a track that the race disappointed me, well, except for the one race at the brickyard where they ran about fifty sprints.
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
2008? That race was a damn joke. It was like a Redskins game, I couldn't turn it off because something about trainwrecks are fun to watch.
I have been to boring races. Fell asleep at Dover a couple times and almost fell asleep at Richmond once.
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
Atlanta and Charlotte are good races. Texas has good racing for about two laps.
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
The length of the races is the main factor though. I've seen spread out fields on short tracks before because 300 laps is 200 too many for a season opener at South Boston, and 50 laps is 35 laps too many for a support division at Potomac Speedway.
Sadly, Texas is still 500 miles, twice a year.
Sadly, Texas is still 500 miles, twice a year.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Indeed.
Matthew2470
It's not that serious
Charlotte is a single groove aero-push suck fest. The October race was the worst of the season.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
I'm not sure comparing being there to the TV experience works real well. It just seems that too many 1.5 races end up strung out and boring.
After reading some points of view about the Bristol change, I've realized I enjoy messy short track racing more than any other. Some rubbing and banging and bumping without wrecking is great drama. I will say that Martinsville went a bit too far, but it's going to be fun watching the next restart that put Jeff behind either the 39 or 15.
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
500 mile races are useless now. Used to be that there was some attrition and the races were unpredictable because of it. 50 laps to go and you knew there was a good possibility the dominant car could blow an engine, and it happened quite a bit, because they raced too hard all race. Now, these cars and engines are so durable, how often do we see a Hendrick or Roush car blow up? Most of these 500 mile races, you know who's going to win with 40 laps to go unless there's an artificial caution that sets up a Green/White/Checkered finish... and even then... And the drivers used to race hard. It was very rare for someone who started in the back to work their way through the front because everyone raced for every position knowing anything could happen. Now, everyone just rolls over for a faster car and someone who starts last can be leading by the 35th lap of a 325 lap race.
If the races were shorter, drivers will race harder for position knowing that they might not have the time to make an adjustment and get the position back. Look what happens when there's a threat of rain at a race. I know some of you think every single race is an instant classic. I'm not saying every race has to be a crashfest or a photofinish, but the races are so average now that they're entirely predictable.
The other thing NASCAR does that pisses me off is the progressive banking. It worked at Homestead so NASCAR and Bruton Smith think this is the solution to all their problems. I despise it. Now, the tracks are all being designed to where it's so easy to pass that you don't have to mount a challenge at all for position. It doesn't improve the racing, it doesn't bring the cars closer together. All it does is make it where a driver can make a pass on a slightly slower car in one turn where it might've taken them 10 laps to make that pass without progressive banking.
They built these mega-sized tracks so they could accommodate demand for 150,000 tickets. The tracks were never designed to put on a good show, they were designed for the sole intent of selling 150,000 tickets. Now, the demand is falling but we're still racing twice a year at tracks that were designed for open wheel cars.
The cars and tracks have evolved, but NASCAR hasn't evolved with it.
If the races were shorter, drivers will race harder for position knowing that they might not have the time to make an adjustment and get the position back. Look what happens when there's a threat of rain at a race. I know some of you think every single race is an instant classic. I'm not saying every race has to be a crashfest or a photofinish, but the races are so average now that they're entirely predictable.
The other thing NASCAR does that pisses me off is the progressive banking. It worked at Homestead so NASCAR and Bruton Smith think this is the solution to all their problems. I despise it. Now, the tracks are all being designed to where it's so easy to pass that you don't have to mount a challenge at all for position. It doesn't improve the racing, it doesn't bring the cars closer together. All it does is make it where a driver can make a pass on a slightly slower car in one turn where it might've taken them 10 laps to make that pass without progressive banking.
They built these mega-sized tracks so they could accommodate demand for 150,000 tickets. The tracks were never designed to put on a good show, they were designed for the sole intent of selling 150,000 tickets. Now, the demand is falling but we're still racing twice a year at tracks that were designed for open wheel cars.
The cars and tracks have evolved, but NASCAR hasn't evolved with it.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
As long as i'm a paying customer, bring on those long races.
Viewing tip for those of you that want shorter races..... try tuning into the race 3 hours past the scheduled start time. I guarantee you see a shorter race. Me, I'll be there when the green flag flies!
Viewing tip for those of you that want shorter races..... try tuning into the race 3 hours past the scheduled start time. I guarantee you see a shorter race. Me, I'll be there when the green flag flies!
Matthew2470
It's not that serious
As long as i'm a paying customer, bring on those long races.
Viewing tip for those of you that want shorter races..... try tuning into the race 3 hours past the scheduled start time. I guarantee you see a shorter race. Me, I'll be there when the green flag flies!
Exactly! When I'm at MIS I always wish it were a 500 mile race.
ted@economy
in the interest of equal time
I can see now why you don't like Nascar racing. Especially if your favorite driver is the one doing the 'rolling over' ..I kind of like it because my guy is the one charging up through the field. I'm afraid though , even if I did get to make my fantasy picks with forty laps to go in the race , I would still be in 30th place.
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
I'm quite content with the 400 laps of racing I'll be getting from the Cup cars at Richmond+ 250 laps from the Nationwide Series + 100 laps from the K&N East Series + the 75 lap LMSC race.
R
robbybee
Guest
I agree with much of what you said, Andy! Cars and engines are far more reliable these days and 500 miles does not really provide much of an endurance test for most.
But I disagree entirely with your opinion that progressive banking is a bad thing. I would much rather see multiple drivers have the option of using multiple grooves as they work their way thru the field or encounter lapped traffic. Racing today is much more cerebral than it was 15 or 20 years ago. It's more like chess than dodgeball. I, for one, will take the chess match over the carnage any day!!
As for shorter races, I agree again! We saw what was maybe best race in the history of Fontucky this season ( for what THAT is worth) and that was due to the fact that every driver knew that they were racing to the 200 mile mark. I would love to see NA$$CAR adopt some of the practices seen in the V8 Supercar Series where there are two separate races run on the same weekend at the same track and each has the same points distribution.
A 250 mile race at Texas on Saturday Night and another 250 mile race on Sunday afternoon would be effen awesome!!!
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
Instead of 500 miles, how about running four or five 50 mile heat races and a 250 or 300 mile main event. That way, dpkimmel is happy with his "money's worth" and I'm happy with decent racing.
R
robbybee
Guest
Put that show on a dirt track and I am IN!!!
1
#17D500winner
Guest
I think the length of a Nascar race plays second fiddle to the length of the attention span of the newer Nascar fan. Either you like people driving around in a circle or you don't - your choice.
I'm editing this to say that, Andy, that's not a cheap shot at you but in this society where instant gratification isn't quick enough, maybe 500 laps of a Nascar race isn't the real issue.
I know I'd rather watch my dog wash his **** than endure yet another boring road course race but yet I do it every time.
I'm editing this to say that, Andy, that's not a cheap shot at you but in this society where instant gratification isn't quick enough, maybe 500 laps of a Nascar race isn't the real issue.
I know I'd rather watch my dog wash his **** than endure yet another boring road course race but yet I do it every time.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
I guess some of us may not have the disposable income that you seem to have. If I'm going to spend about $1500 for a family getaway to a NASCAR event, I don't want to be short changed. It's an investment for me and my family and something that we have to plan for well in advance.
ted@economy
in the interest of equal time
I'm sorry for the people who only like 50 lap races . The longer races bring in so much more . Pit stops are not a factor in 50 lappers , niether is the crew chief, no fuel mileage concerns , no car care concerns at all.The 500 mile races are big boy racing ,you can't just run a patched up junker , you need to bring the whole package . Also , in most races , there are different leaders as crews set up for longer or shorter runs .I love the Big Boy races but the little 50 lappers are fun too.
R
robbybee
Guest
It's always interesting how many different opinions exist on a single subject. I would much rather see a season filled with road courses and leave the ovals to be the occasional change of pace. But having differing opinions is not a bad thing.
Some like destructor plate tracks. Some like short tracks. Some like road courses. But we ALL like NA$$CAR!
I know that I can find enough ALMS or V8 Supercar races to quench my thirst for what I consider to be, the ultimate exhibition of driver capability!
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
I'll keep my wish simple. 24 short track races and they can do whatever they want for the other 12.
That's not asking too much, is it?
That's not asking too much, is it?
Matthew2470
It's not that serious
Exactly. When I am at a race I just do not care if the people at home are enjoying the race. They are watching for free and invested no time or effort. But I do admit that I was someone who was glad to see the Pocono races shortened.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
R
robbybee
Guest
OK, Y'all!!!
The countdown to the CUP Race at TMS has officially begun!
The race is on Saturday Night so I would count SIX Days till the Next Race!
And to that end, I submit this:
The countdown to the CUP Race at TMS has officially begun!
The race is on Saturday Night so I would count SIX Days till the Next Race!
And to that end, I submit this:
Dwayne
Team Owner
Ah yes when cup cars still looked somewhat like the cars on the lot, I may be mistaken but at this time didn't they still have a stock hood, roof and trunk lid?OK, Y'all!!!
The countdown to the CUP Race at TMS has officially begun!
The race is on Saturday Night so I would count SIX Days till the Next Race!
And to that end, I submit this:
Thegroundpounder99
Bull in a China Shop
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2012
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Yes, hood, deck and roof were factory parts.
Thegroundpounder99
Bull in a China Shop
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2012
- Messages
- 4,212
- Points
- 443
OK, Y'all!!!
The countdown to the CUP Race at TMS has officially begun!
The race is on Saturday Night so I would count SIX Days till the Next Race!
And to that end, I submit this:
Did you build that model? They're harder to build then the real cars! I'd paint everything and stop cause I'd get so aggravated with the darn things
R
robbybee
Guest
No, I didn't build it. I used to build model cars when I was a kid but I would never try this...
Pretty cool, though, ain't it?
Thegroundpounder99
Bull in a China Shop
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2012
- Messages
- 4,212
- Points
- 443
It is pretty sweet.
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
Those people watching at home pay the bills, i.e. TV ratings which are more important right now since fans aren't showing up to races. Once y'all start selling out every race, your opinion will matter.
R
robbybee
Guest
I have serious doubts about sellouts - with the possible exception being the Bristol Night Race.
Even that is far from a sure thing.
Matthew2470
It's not that serious
1
#17D500winner
Guest
6.8 million watching at home compared to 68,000 at the track in Martinsville.
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
Exactly. And when ratings fall, NASCAR loses tens of millions from TV contracts and advertising revenue. If FOX doesn't think they're getting their money's worth, they won't pay the same amount and they might move the races to a second tier cable network.
You can't blame the economy anymore. The economy's not hurting the New York Yankees. The economy's not hurting the NFL. The economy's not hurting basketbore. The economy's not hurting hockey.
The fact is, there are fewer people going to the races, and it was a matter of they can't afford to go, the television ratings would be up. The fact is, television ratings have taken a nosedive since 2007.
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
There's also a reason Texas has to use stupid ass gimmicks to promote their races. I don't see Martinsville saying, "buy our tickets because we put this billboard of some near-fatal accident up on the interstate".
I'm actually shocked Gossage hasn't used Dan Wheldon's crash to promote the Texas race... that sort of stunt is not below him.
I'm actually shocked Gossage hasn't used Dan Wheldon's crash to promote the Texas race... that sort of stunt is not below him.
Matthew2470
It's not that serious
Every sport you mentioned has taken a beating. Huge market teams are able to weather the storms.
So let's cut all the races in half. Reduce the crowds by half and the ratings will still suck balls. Brilliant!