Jeff Gordon's amazing "Top 5" finishing record

[DelsFan]

Waltrip made a bad business decision and started his own team and it almost broke him, not to mention hurt his record in this dog and pony show. Lorenzen was like a hit man, ran mostly money races, so using the bogus competition angle you could say he was the greatest. But I go with the King Petty, did more for the sport than any of them IMO, and with a little fiddling with his record discounting his golden years he by far beats everybody in that regard. Before air conditioning, safety, power steering, decent tires, and speeds that haven't been matched today. Gordon came along after all the heavy work was done and lapped up the cream. Sure he will go down as a great driver and a hall of famer. But Johnson in the modern era is smoking him.

Agreed about Petty (and Pearson, et al), I remember them getting out of the cars after some races about half dead from carbon monoxide poisoning. It was a different world then!
I remember around 1975 Petty winning at Talladega and my buddies and I wandering from my Dad's infield motorhome towards victory lane - ended up right next to his car as his crew was rolling it up there. Security was different then too! Was just a dumb kid then, didn't follow the car, didn't see Petty in victory lane. No photos, no speeches, no pretty girls kissing the winner. Go figure.

 

[Greg]

Accomplishmets is about the only thing we can be certain about.

But who was the best, or how do you define it?
What about a statistically inferior driver that only had marginally good equipment and got the most out it.

I heard Petty say something like some of his proudest drives were not the wins. But the times when he overcame some serious problems and salvaged a good finish in spite of things.

The best, truest greatest talent that may have gotten the most out of his opportunities may have not been great statistically.

 

[StandOnIt]

Personally I would like to see Jeff continue, I don't buy the whole losing your dignity thing. If you are fast enough to get into the race and you have the money/car so be it, but let the wankers wank in that regard. David Pearson until he had his stroke was racing a car in his mid 70's and competitive.


Winning percentage would've made Pearson the Prince

If you're lucky, and you hit the right Carolinas dirt track on the right summer night, you might look out on the oval and see a driver with silver hair and a '37 flathead Ford.

He's 76 years old, and these days he spends most of his time having lunch with his friends and tending to his donkeys and goats. But the other drivers in the classic car races know all about him. They call ahead to see if he's racing that night. When he does, a lot of them don't.

"We don't run a whole lot," David Pearson says. "But I don't believe I've lost one yet."

http://www.thatsracin.com/2011/05/20/63030/david-pearson.html

 

[Greg]

Personally I would like to see Jeff continue, I don't buy the whole losing your dignity thing. If you are fast enough to get into the race and you have the money/car so be it, but let the wankers wank in that regard. David Pearson until he had his stroke was racing a car in his mid 70's and competitive.


Winning percentage would've made Pearson the Prince

If you're lucky, and you hit the right Carolinas dirt track on the right summer night, you might look out on the oval and see a driver with silver hair and a '37 flathead Ford.

He's 76 years old, and these days he spends most of his time having lunch with his friends and tending to his donkeys and goats. But the other drivers in the classic car races know all about him. They call ahead to see if he's racing that night. When he does, a lot of them don't.

"We don't run a whole lot," David Pearson says. "But I don't believe I've lost one yet."

http://www.thatsracin.com/2011/05/20/63030/david-pearson.html

But he does not do that at his age against cup competition.

I think Jeff has a few more good years left if he wanted them.
But oldest Cup champion was 45 y/o
Bobby Allison.

Harry Gant was an ecception with 4 consective wins past his 50th birthday.

I think it is pretty obvious that Petty and Waltrips skills were diminished prior to retirement. I wish it wasnt true, but no one is immortal.

 

[StandOnIt]

Racing is a lot more than just winning to people like Petty, Waltrip, the Wallace's, Elliott's Foyt, Andretti, Stewart will be one I bet, etc it is a lifestyle. Looks like Gordon is going to try to stay around the traveling racing scene also.

 

[Greg]

Racing is a lot more than just winning to people like Petty, Waltrip, the Wallace's, Elliott's Foyt, Andretti, Stewart will be one I bet, etc it is a lifestyle. Looks like Gordon is going to try to stay around the traveling racing scene also.

I agree and Petty will probably go as long as he is able, respectfully stated maybe at the track when the time comes.

I dont think he is just trying to be relevant. Just the only life he knows, and the one he wants to keep imo.

 

[Skoalbandit33]

I didn't realize there was a caveat to the OP's post asking if there were any drivers who were close to this accomplishment … I knew Dale Sr. was right there with Gordon but Pearson was the first name that popped into my head as a guy probably over 50% … I'd like to hear the OP's opinion as it is his thread …

Many people, including myself, think the Silver Fox was the best ever. Before anyone blows a gasket this is JMO.

 

[C_Numb]

The modern era is always cited when talking about Nascar records on all of the races and racing show's that I've watched. DW cited it when he called Jeff Gordon the GOAT last Sunday. That dividing line makes a big difference in the records.

I know all about the modern era stats but your comment about DW caught my attention.

DW is nothing more then a shill for NASCAR (like his brother] and Jeff is close but certainly not the GOAT.

I can think of 3 drivers with more championships including 2 who have achieved those championships in the modern era that I would put ahead of Gordon.

I'm not trying to pick a fight but you brought the GOAT inference in when it had nothing to do with the original post that was made.

When its all over I believe JJ will be considered the best of all time …

 

[Clutch]

Gordon's record is amazing!
I'm a bit surprised but the dude really is one of the greats.

 

[DUN24]

The modern era started in 1972 because before that they raced under different sets of rules at different tracks and raced as many as 4 times a week. The top drivers were scattered all over the place racing at different tracks during a single week. That's why the records are split at 1972. Before and after 1972? Apples and oranges.

Yes. Top notch.


One thing you can see in @FLRacingFan s chart, when keeping the modern era in mind... The 3, 48, and 24 are really a different kind of amazing. Great thread. as much as you already know, it really grounds you when you look back on the numbers.

Lol but even those numbers are incapable of fully representing matters.

As noted by Johali. http://racing-forums.com/members/johali.6082/
they ran many shorter races prior to the close of 1971, and that season alone had over 50 cup events (called GN at the time). Two of them at Greenville Pickens and they were only 200 lappers. I loved those races. I live close enough to hear the engines at the track from my house. I attended them and wish it could happen again. But those races probably started 30 cars at the most. I hate to admit it but the size of the event in todays terms would be more closely paired to a GN east race.

The 1971 events had greater talent than the current GN East, with Petty, Isaac, The Allison brothers. Plus CCs like Hyde and Inman, but they also was a bigger gap between the best and worst equipped teams. Some were fortunate just to be able to make the haul.

They ran a race in at Texas that year 1971 near Houston, Meyers speedway. It was basically a mid week stop from the west coast, after the Riverside race. Probably drew less than 20 cars. A finish with no major calamities was almost a guaranteed top 5.

Petty and Bobby Allison are heros and I would argue their greatness against one. But you can make the numbers support at least half a dozen drivers as the GOAT, including Jeff Gordon.

Even how to measure a great one with a universal application across the generations is a slippery slope. Drivers in the previous era by default had to be good with the wrenches and work with cruder elements.
They probably could talk about the extra ply sidewalls on their open trailer tires, they might have even taken part in the building the rig.

And Gordon by default or no choice of his own has exsisted in an era were corporate polish means more. But he also without question had to compete against stronger competition too, it almost impossible to acess both eras and make accurate acessments for who is the GOAT.

End of the day if you believe a
any one of them is the GOAT, enjoy it and be happy for the history you have seen, and even your passion. It is a great thing.

Just dont kid yourself into thinking you can prove it to anyone else.

Greg's the ****.

 

[Skoalbandit33]

One of the attributes I liked about Dale Earnhardt was his consistent ability to take a 15th place car and turn it into a top 10 or a 10th place car and bag a top 5. Johnson/Knauss are also quite good at getting the max from whatever piece they are driving that day. On the other hand you can take a driver like Kyle Busch and he will take a 15th place car and wall it trying to get into the top 10.

Stats are a very important part of determining the greatest ever but there are also intangibles that cannot be measured accurately. I think anyone who has been around the series long enough knows that Jeff Gordon is one of Nascar's best but not the best ever and an argument could be made that he is not even in the top 5.

 

[Johali]

I know all about the modern era stats but your comment about DW caught my attention.

DW is nothing more then a shill for NASCAR (like his brother] and Jeff is close but certainly not the GOAT.

I can think of 3 drivers with more championships including 2 who have achieved those championships in the modern era that I would put ahead of Gordon.

I'm not trying to pick a fight but you brought the GOAT inference in when it had nothing to do with the original post that was made.

When its all over I believe JJ will be considered the best of all time …

It had everything to do with the OP. It was used as a reference for the use of the term Modern Era. It was not a positive or negative comment concerning DW or JG. As MOST people understand the GOAT debate will go on until the end of time and will never be resolved because it brings out so much passion one way or the other in race fans. So I'm not getting involved in that. At no time have you or anyone seen me take a stance in that argument. GO JEFF GORDON.

 

[Skoalbandit33]

It had everything to do with the OP. It was used as a reference for the use of the term Modern Era. It was not a positive or negative comment concerning DW or JG. As MOST people understand the GOAT debate will go on until the end of time and will never be resolved because it brings out so much passion one way or the other in race fans. So I'm not getting involved in that. At no time have you or anyone seen me take a stance in that argument. GO JEFF GORDON.

JG will go down a great but I think only a partisan fan would rank him as the best ever.

 

[Johali]

JG will go down a great but I think only a partisan fan would rank him as the best ever.

In my opinion everybody is narrow minded, fans, in the booth, so called reporters everybody, concerning each driver's place in the scheme of things. There is no best ever. By my count there will always be 5 that have their pro's and con's and it will be debated forever.

 

[Skoalbandit33]

In my opinion everybody is narrow minded, fans, in the booth, so called reporters everybody, concerning each driver's place in the scheme of things. There is no best ever. By my count there will always be 5 that have their pro's and con's and it will be debated forever.

In the modern era I think Dale beats JG due to his championship total. I think Johnson beats JG because of championships and a remarkable consistency all while having the same resources. At the end of the day I would rather be Bobby Labonte with 20 something wins and a champ or his big brother with 20 something wins and 2 champs then Mark Martin with 40 wins and no champs.

 

[StandOnIt]

Johali said: ↑
The modern era started in 1972 because before that they raced under different sets of rules at different tracks and raced as many as 4 times a week. The top drivers were scattered all over the place racing at different tracks during a single week. That's why the records are split at 1972. Before and after 1972? Apples and oranges.




If anything it is closer to the opposite of what is stated. Back in the day some drivers didn't race the whole Nascar schedule, some raced USAC with different cars under a different rule set .They might have raced 4 times a week? but doubtful, it wouldn't have been for points in the NASCAR series though.

 

[Johali]

If anything it is closer to the opposite of what is stated. Back in the day some drivers didn't race the whole Nascar schedule, some raced USAC with different cars under a different rule set .They might have raced 4 times a week? but doubtful, it wouldn't have been for points in the NASCAR series though.

NO.
EDIT: This is a list of cup sanctioned tracks, past and present.

http://racing-reference.info/tracklist?srs=W

 

[StandOnIt]

No, say it isn't so.

http://fantasyracingcheatsheet.com/nascar/races/schedule/1971
http://fantasyracingcheatsheet.com/nascar/races/schedule/1970
http://fantasyracingcheatsheet.com/nascar/races/schedule/1969

 

[Johali]

No, say it isn't so. View attachment 18231

BURP.

 

[StandOnIt]

great a burp, I knew it would amount to either that or fart.

 

[Johali]

great a burp, I knew it would amount to either that or fart.

Yep, hot gas is all your comments are worth.

 

[StandOnIt]

probably had a bit too much bud light back in the day, your memories of what really happened needed a jolt, sorry for the reality wake up call...ah not really.

 

[Greg]

Greg's the sh!t.

Thanks, but I more like full of ****.

 

[Johali]

Thanks, but I more like full of sh!t.

Yep but your's is lighthearted and not full on troll and mini mod wannabe's like some on here.

 

[blanston]

Yep but your's is lighthearted and not full on troll and mini mod wannabe's like some on here.

Perfect. And oh so accurate.

 

[DelsFan]

One of the attributes I liked about Dale Earnhardt was his consistent ability to take a 15th place car and turn it into a top 10 or a 10th place car and bag a top 5. Johnson/Knauss are also quite good at getting the max from whatever piece they are driving that day. On the other hand you can take a driver like Kyle Busch and he will take a 15th place car and wall it trying to get into the top 10.

Stats are a very important part of determining the greatest ever but there are also intangibles that cannot be measured accurately. I think anyone who has been around the series long enough knows that Jeff Gordon is one of Nascar's best but not the best ever and an argument could be made that he is not even in the top 5.

My only knock on Gordon is he hasn't won a championship since 2001. Adding one this year would sure change my opinion about him (being somewhere near a tie for GOAT).

I was not a Dale Sr. fan, at first, I liked (for better or worse) Petty and then Waltrip. So I was never disappointed when Dale's car was underperforming or had taken a bit of sheet metal damage. What gained my respect for him later in his career is exactly what you say, he have (or end up with) a crap car and somehow bring it home on the lead lap.

As for Kyle, I wonder if he hasn't changed his ways some in later years, to be nearly tied in third with Tony Stewart (and ahead of all other active racers) for Top 5 finishes.

 

[StandOnIt]

always turns out the same. Some of the more outlandish Gordo fans will make up anything, and when they get called on it in plain black n white, they cry and pout. nothing new here. Dose of reality is good for them though, they need to grow up a bit.

 

[aunty dive]

^ does not own a mirror.

 

[Reck]

My only knock on Gordon is he hasn't won a championship since 2001. Adding one this year would sure change my opinion about him (being somewhere near a tie for GOAT).

I was not a Dale Sr. fan, at first, I liked (for better or worse) Petty and then Waltrip. So I was never disappointed when Dale's car was underperforming or had taken a bit of sheet metal damage. What gained my respect for him later in his career is exactly what you say, he have (or end up with) a crap car and somehow bring it home on the lead lap.

As for Kyle, I wonder if he hasn't changed his ways some in later years, to be nearly tied in third with Tony Stewart (and ahead of all other active racers) for Top 5 finishes.

The chase is really not meant for the Gordon's of the racing world.

He is more of a long stretch kind of driver, Mark Martin like.

Unfortunately, the chase demands immidiate results and a top 5 here and there won't get the job done. You absolutely need 2 wins at the most.

That's hard to do at the end of the year. You have to be hot going into it. Still the fact he hadn't won a championship since 01 shouldn't be a deterrent to say he's among the best drivers to come along.

 

[Skoalbandit33]

My only knock on Gordon is he hasn't won a championship since 2001. Adding one this year would sure change my opinion about him (being somewhere near a tie for GOAT).

I was not a Dale Sr. fan, at first, I liked (for better or worse) Petty and then Waltrip. So I was never disappointed when Dale's car was underperforming or had taken a bit of sheet metal damage. What gained my respect for him later in his career is exactly what you say, he have (or end up with) a crap car and somehow bring it home on the lead lap.

As for Kyle, I wonder if he hasn't changed his ways some in later years, to be nearly tied in third with Tony Stewart (and ahead of all other active racers) for Top 5 finishes.

I think Dale knew when to push it and when he was going over the ragged edge. Kyle is a great wheel man and I think he is learning that some days you have to take what you get.

 

[Greg]

^ does not own a mirror.

Love the Avator

 

[aunty dive]

Love the Avator

Jerry Sneva in a Tipke super modified. Pacific Northwest CAMRA circuit mid to late 70's

I Had a couple just like it.

 

[Greg]

Jerry Sneva in a Tipke super modified. Pacific Northwest CAMRA circuit mid to late 70's

I Had a couple just like it.

Great ifo.
Toms brother? and if so did he come up through the Super Mods?

You had a couple like it, did you race them?

 

[aunty dive]

Great ifo.
Toms brother? and if so did he come up through the Super Mods?

You had a couple like it, did you race them?

I did. Raced both the brothers and one of their 3 younger brothers for several seasons before first Tom and then Jerry left for bigger things.

The 3rd boy, "Babe" was lost to complications following a closed head injury suffered during a race that I'm sad to say I was in.

Great people. Spent summers in their old man's shop in Spokane.

 

[Greg]

I did. Raced both the brothers and one of their 3 younger brothers for several seasons before first Tom and then Jerry left for bigger things.

The 3rd boy, "Babe" was lost to complications following a closed head injury suffered during a race that I'm sad to say I was in.

Great people. Spent summers in their old man's shop in Spokane.

Thanks I am nerd for this kind of stuff. If you have any similar other stories I would be reading with great interest.

Would make a great thread imo, in the modified sub forums.

Any Art Pollard stuff?

 

[aunty dive]

Thanks I am nerd for this kind of stuff. If you have any similar other stories I would be reading with great interest.

Would make a great thread imo, in the modified sub forums.

Any Art Pollard stuff?

He ran CAMRA cars but was gone to Indianapolis before I got started. I guess the series graduated about a dozen other guys.

I'll think about a thread when I can take the time. I have a lot of pictures and other things that some would find interesting. Rear-engined 4 wheel drive cars ... stuff like that.

Thanks for your interest.

 

[C_Numb]

It had everything to do with the OP. It was used as a reference for the use of the term Modern Era. It was not a positive or negative comment concerning DW or JG. As MOST people understand the GOAT debate will go on until the end of time and will never be resolved because it brings out so much passion one way or the other in race fans. So I'm not getting involved in that. At no time have you or anyone seen me take a stance in that argument. GO JEFF GORDON.

The OP only asked if any other drivers could be compared to Jeff's all-time top-5 to start percentages and thats what some of us did.

Maybe you should have just mentioned that we go from 1972 using the modern era stats.

But you brought up the DW/JG being the GOAT which deserved some debate.

 

[C_Numb]

My only knock on Gordon is he hasn't won a championship since 2001. Adding one this year would sure change my opinion about him (being somewhere near a tie for GOAT).

I was not a Dale Sr. fan, at first, I liked (for better or worse) Petty and then Waltrip. So I was never disappointed when Dale's car was underperforming or had taken a bit of sheet metal damage. What gained my respect for him later in his career is exactly what you say, he have (or end up with) a crap car and somehow bring it home on the lead lap.

As for Kyle, I wonder if he hasn't changed his ways some in later years, to be nearly tied in third with Tony Stewart (and ahead of all other active racers) for Top 5 finishes.

This is why Gordon can't be considered the GOAT.

 

[Johali]

The OP only asked if any other drivers could be compared to Jeff's all-time top-5 to start percentages and thats what some of us did.

Maybe you should have just mentioned that we go from 1972 using the modern era stats.

But you brought up the DW/JG being the GOAT which deserved some debate.

And maybe you should interpret and respond to the post's like you want to and let us do the same. I am well aware that this is a racing discussion board that can and will go in any direction the posters want it to. Picking apart and bashing post's about driver's that you don't like stall's a thread also. I don't do pissing contest's. Have a good day. And by the way GO JEFF GORDON.

 

[StandOnIt]

The OP only asked if any other drivers could be compared to Jeff's all-time top-5 to start percentages and thats what some of us did.

Maybe you should have just mentioned that we go from 1972 using the modern era stats.

But you brought up the DW/JG being the GOAT which deserved some debate.

I agree totally. Probably a good idea C_numb to remind some of the posters with FL's chart in this thread that whatever "the modern era" is doesn't change history even for Nascar's jesus.