JGR Smacked Down before the Playoffs!

S

Stacy

Guest
Pious Joe now prevented from openly sabotaging his competitors. Well played Visser!
 
It does seem peculiar to only penalize or suspend "other" team members. As in a little self service.
Glad Furniture Row now gets to self police like most teams would want, without the Daddy lordship.
 
Nascar wants to ignore the corporate teams aspect and like encumbered it is called alliances. But this went over the line on so many levels even the casual fan couldn't ignore what happened. Manipulating another owners team personnel and crippling their competitive performance because you didn't like the way they behaved? The flack the preacher and the company he represents gave them both a black eye IMO.
 
ToyYoda said:
Looks like this was a decision made by JGR according to the article.
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They could've made this decision when dealing with the incident -- but they didn't. You know, when Adam Stevens invades another Team's box and threatened a competitor's crew -- "I want to beat your ass..."

JGR willingly giving up control? -- nope.

It will likely be marketed that way; but this open sabotage of another Team goes to the dwindling integrity of NASCAR competition. It's been picked up by others outside the JGR echo-chamber.

Now this Joe Gibbs nonsense has been stopped before the Playoffs. Visser is a cool dude in making this change happen without a lot of drama.
 
Stacy said:
They could've made this decision when dealing with the incident -- but they didn't. You know, when Adam Stevens invades another Team's box and threatened a competitor's crew -- "I want to beat your ass..."

JGR willingly giving up control? -- nope.

It will likely be marketed that way; but this open sabotage of another Team goes to the dwindling integrity of NASCAR competition. It's been picked up by others outside the JGR echo-chamber.

Now this Joe Gibbs nonsense has been stopped before the Playoffs. Visser is a cool dude in making this change happen without a lot of drama.
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who says Visser made it change? Joe might have done it on his own, Nascar heaven forbid might have had a closed door session, because his actions opened up a whole can of worms, we will probably never know why, but I hope I don't ever see something like that happen again. It smacks of point fixing, and then Kyle wins a race? It just looks bad for the sport IMO.
 
Stacy said:
They could've made this decision when dealing with the incident -- but they didn't. You know, when Adam Stevens invades another Team's box and threatened a competitor's crew -- "I want to beat your ass..."

JGR willingly giving up control? -- nope.

It will likely be marketed that way; but this open sabotage of another Team goes to the dwindling integrity of NASCAR competition. It's been picked up by others outside the JGR echo-chamber.

Now this Joe Gibbs nonsense has been stopped before the Playoffs. Visser is a cool dude in making this change happen without a lot of drama.
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Still waiting for that "Bueno Kyle Busch" thread from his Pocono win by the way.
 
StandOnIt, I can see your point --

but Do Not underestimate a successful competitive Visser (proud veteran worth hundreds of millions dollars) being screwed with by a petulant Joe Gibbs.

Anyone that believes Visser would not use his influence to ensure his Denver Teams would not be openly sabotaged like this again, going forward -- is sadly naive.

Visser is the clear winner, and NASCAR competition reclaims some of the integrity it lost...
 
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ToyYoda said:
Still waiting for that "Bueno Kyle Busch" thread from his Pocono win by the way.
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I shouldn't be but I am really disappointed by the unfair and inaccurate accusations leveled at Toyota, JGR and Joe Gibbs personally. I have had issues with Kyle Busch but now I hope he rips off 4-5 wins in a row and gives everyone the 2 handed single Will Power salute at the start finish line.
 
Stacy said:
StandOnIt, I can see your point --

but Do Not underestimate a successful competitive Visser (proud veteran worth hundreds of millions dollars) being screwed with by a petulant Joe Gibbs.

Anyone that believes Visser would not use his influence to ensure his Denver Teams would not be openly sabotaged like this again, going forward -- is sadly naive.

Visser is the clear winner, and NASCAR competition reclaims some of the integrity it lost...
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he was the first one to say it was ok what Gibbs did. Could be behind closed doors it was a different story. You could be right, but there are other ways for that decision to happen and nobody is talking besides the statement from Joe.
 
I myself would have liked to hear that Nascar stepped in. It would restore my faith that there are some of the brass with half a brain looking out for the sport. Another owner shouldn't have that much power over another owner unless they are a figurehead for in this case 6 teams which are two teams too many.
 
On one hand you hear AllenBaba talking about what an independent person Barney V is and I believe what Allen says which is why it is so strange that he would have ceded control his personnel to someone else. Was it a directive of Toyota? A demand made by JGR? Something else? I doubt we will ever know but it would be interesting to find out.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
I don't think it was a ceding of control so much as Barney needed a good crew and leasing it from Gibbs was the fastest way to get it.
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That makes sense. It is strange that JGR had the power they did as it would be like me leasing a car and getting getting a parking ticket and the leasing company suspending my driving privileges on that car.
 
No matter which side of the deal you are on, it was VERY poorly handled. If their was any discipline to be handed out, it should have come from Barney Visser, even if Gibbs was the one who demanded it. I fault both sides of the deal anyway. Stevens did not act like a Cup crew chief when he let himself get sucked into jaw jacking with pit crew members from another team. He should have just walked away and handled it behind the scenes. The crew guys on the other hand acted like idiots, one for mouthing off when THEIR driver caused the wreck, and second for lipping back to a more senior person who works for the same employer they do. Not smart. I'm enough of a hothead myself to have been in some of these deals and it does nothing but hurt you.
 
Formerjackman said:
No matter which side of the deal you are on, it was VERY poorly handled. If their was any discipline to be handed out, it should have come from Barney Visser, even if Gibbs was the one who demanded it. I fault both sides of the deal anyway. Stevens did not act like a Cup crew chief when he let himself get sucked into jaw jacking with pit crew members from another team. He should have just walked away and handled it behind the scenes. The crew guys on the other hand acted like idiots, one for mouthing off when THEIR driver caused the wreck, and second for lipping back to a more senior person who works for the same employer they do. Not smart. I'm enough of a hothead myself to have been in some of these deals and it does nothing but hurt you.
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I see your point, maybe you have never lost your cool in a touchy situation... but I'm sure a lot of us have... whether it's working on a race team or working at Burger King.... emotions are involved and when you are confronted it's a different story. I personally believe none of us truly know what we will do when someone gets in our face to confront us... it's all situational to the highest level.

I don't fault any of the 78 guys for their response. I imagine most people I know would stand their ground as well. Honestly they handled themselves very well if I might say so... and I don't even care for the race team at all.
 
I've been in those situations in racing and I'm not real thrilled with the way I handled any of them. I once threatened to throw a jack at another car if the driver cut through our pit stall again while I was over the wall, and I had a running feud with the ARCA media director and the promoter of Salem Speedway. Honestly, I thought the 18/78 deal should have been a no-call, but nobody in that situation acted very professionally. Whatever happened should have been between Kyle and Martin. The crew had nothing in it, and should have stayed out of it.
 
4 car max should mean no alliances above that as well....but whatever
 
This doesn't seem like a big deal and something they collaborated on. Probably should have been done this way at the beginning of the alliance and a freak thing happened in which made them reassess the situation.
 
JohnHill said:
I see your point, maybe you have never lost your cool in a touchy situation... but I'm sure a lot of us have... whether it's working on a race team or working at Burger King.... emotions are involved and when you are confronted it's a different story. I personally believe none of us truly know what we will do when someone gets in our face to confront us... it's all situational to the highest level.

I don't fault any of the 78 guys for their response. I imagine most people I know would stand their ground as well. Honestly they handled themselves very well if I might say so... and I don't even care for the race team at all.
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It takes a ton of practice and a ton of patience to allow someone else to berate you while you turn the other cheek but it can be accomplished. It is a really good skill to have in the real world in this day and age as people end up dead all the time because they escalate a situation instead of being cool. The road rage incidents alone are scary enough.

I was out yesterday afternoon taking pictures and was driving down a street in a small town and saw a 1967 Chevy pickup and a tree with apples on it so I snapped some pics. I am driving slowly and I see an F-150 in my rear view mirror so I quickly pull in a driveway so he can get by. Instead the guy stops and blocks me in the driveway and starts going off on me about taking pictures of his house. I was instantly pissed but bit my lip let him get out what he needed to say and asked him if he would like to see the pics I had taken. I showed him and he mumbled around and backed up down the road to his house.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
I don't think it was a ceding of control so much as Barney needed a good crew and leasing it from Gibbs was the fastest way to get it.
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I think that it was just a manifestation of the reality that alliances are nothing more than a way to supersede the four car limit. In essence, Coach runs the whole JGR/FRR show. He transferred power over crews to Barney because the incident got so much exposure that it became awkward IMO.
 
Revman said:
I think that it was just a manifestation of the reality that alliances are nothing more than a way to supersede the four car limit. In essence, Coach runs the whole JGR/FRR show. He transferred power over crews to Barney because the incident got so much exposure that it became awkward IMO.
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I disagree. Barney was in business long before going to Toyota. He was just looking for more manufacture support. BTW, Joe Gibbs went with Toyota for the same reason. He was fourth in support by GM while racing Pontiac's.
 
Smack down? he's (go jibbs) "letting" the 78 discipline ( or not) his own pit crew. Wow, now thats Breaking News. Justice would have been if the suspended pit crew members defected to a different team. In his post Indy wreck interview, KDB made reference to 2 team mates involved in the wreck. He could have very easily blamed Goodyear (again). Had it been any other team involved, KDB would have popped a gasket and vowed payback. It would be far easier to list the things on the 78 car that aren't from JGR instead of the other way around. Maybe the car hauler is the only thing from the 78 team. lol
 
rocket dawg said:
Smack down? he's (go jibbs) "letting" the 78 discipline ( or not) his own pit crew. Wow, now thats Breaking News. Justice would have been if the suspended pit crew members defected to a different team. In his post Indy wreck interview, KDB made reference to 2 team mates involved in the wreck. He could have very easily blamed Goodyear (again). Had it been any other team involved, KDB would have popped a gasket and vowed payback. It would be far easier to list the things on the 78 car that aren't from JGR instead of the other way around. Maybe the car hauler is the only thing from the 78 team. lol
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Brings up a really good point. Just what does Furniture Row do on their own or any alliance team for that matter? They don't build the motor or the chassis, the hood, top and front end are all supplied by the manufacturer, pit crew are Gibbs. These alliances without any boundaries or definitions have arrived to the point where a body wrap and numbers is about the extent of it. Should it be Joe Gibbs racing western branch? Penske racing DBA Woods Brothers? There is info out there that tells a potential customer how American their car is. Sure would be less confusing if Nascar had something that defined how much support the mother ship can give to an alliance team. It sure looks like on the surface that what Nascar tried to prevent years ago with mega teams is being done today with a wink and behind the curtain of secrecy. Don't ask, don't tell. Either define the boundaries for a fairly level playing field or eliminate the rule and let the corporations have as many cars as they can afford?
 
StandOnIt said:
so now do Furniture Row's pit crew get disciplined by a memo from JGR?
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I'll assume you meant to say how, not now.

I don't know ... presumably by previous terms of their business-to-business arrangement. They've changed the terms. Onward to Bristol.
 
Most alliances don't get along swimmingly. Most cars within a single team don't even get along swimmingly. Assuming there are "mega teams" and that is somehow an advantage is naive. NASCAR teams & alliances are like a sorority. Yeah, they all live in the same house and wear the same sweatshirt. But just because they smile for the group picture doesn't mean they're not sitting alone in their bedroom wondering how to make their sisters look fatter and uglier.
 
It looks a hell of a lot closer to corporate hierarchy to me in some cases. Not only furnished with cars and pit crews, but fully sponsored drivers
 
Allenbaba said:
Most alliances don't get along swimmingly. Most cars within a single team don't even get along swimmingly. Assuming there are "mega teams" and that is somehow an advantage is naive. NASCAR teams & alliances are like a sorority. Yeah, they all live in the same house and wear the same sweatshirt. But just because they smile for the group picture doesn't mean they're not sitting alone in their bedroom wondering how to make their sisters look fatter and uglier.
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Sorority House-Mom Joe Gibbs has been taken down a notch... :cheers:
 
It doesn't matter what the truth of the matter is. It is the fans perspective of the events
that really matters. If the fans think JG is running 6 cars and HMS is running 6 and RCR is running 5 etc etc they just may decide it is no longer racing and so they leave.
Why the fans are leaving and the sport is being forced to reset itself is of concern.
I believe Joe made a major mistake in taking this public and has burst the bubble for many fans.
 
Team Penske said:
Why the fans are leaving and the sport is being forced to reset itself is of concern.
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They leave because it has become fashionable. They wouldn't know what to do if they got everything they wanted. Seriously. I could find a million things that piss me off about the NFL. Yet, I chose the one reason as justification for watching it last night---because I ****** like it. Bitching gets you likes around here. Enjoying what this sport is--with its flaws--gets you laughed at. Kind of done with it. Can't wait for tonight!
 
Loving my Ignore button today. It's Bristol Baby---nothing can dampen my excitement!
 
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