Jimmie and Chad always cheat lolzzz!!!

SlicedBread22 said:
I'd say it depends whether it was intentional or a bad batch of parts. They'll figure that out throughout the weekend. Im sure we'll hear a lot about this over the next few days.
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Nah, everybody usually says intent doesn't matter when we're talking about enforcing the rules, right? All that matters is that a rule was broken.

(For the record, I agree with you.)
 
VaDirt said:
Something I can agree with. I just can't see 16 teams cheating, all on the same part at the same time.
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Pemberton said since the number of teams in violation is so large that those parts had probably gotten through inspection several times before and that it wasn't part of a normal inspection routine. No word on who or what tipped them off though.
 
StandOnIt said:
Chad and Jimmy ratted them out.:sarcasm:
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Chad+Knaus+Steve+Letarte+Fontana+NASCAR+Testing+FengqtV3x-7x.jpg
 
Travis Geisler, competition director for Penske Racing, said modifying the roof flap spacers is not new in the garage.

“It’s a common practice that, I think, obviously a lot of the teams have employed,’’ he said. “The biggest thing is that everybody is aware of the fact that it doesn’t change the operation of the roof flap or make the situation more dangerous or hurt the efficiency of them. It’s an area we feel like we haven’t done anything to put anybody at risk.’’

So with a 3,300-pound car, why would anyone even modify these small pieces?

“When you look at the effort to lower the (center of gravity) you look at where things are located,’’ Geisler said.” The biggest impact comes from the pieces that are the highest up in the car. This is as high up in the car as it gets.

“I think when you look at our laps times and see a thousandths (of a second) difference, somebody might say, ‘What’s a couple of ounces?’ Whenever everybody is working toward thousandths of a second, I think that’s where you end up with ounces.’’
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http://www.motorracingnetwork.com/R...es/2013/07/Roof-Flap-Spacers-Confiscated.aspx
 
^ Interesting. So there is a slight advantage according to him. I read the opposite on Jayski this morning.

"#18 Crew Chief says illegal roof laps offer no advantage: A crew chief for one of the 31 cars cited Thursday by NASCAR for illegal roof laps said the modification has "no advantage" at Daytona International Speedway. "There are no gains being made on superspeedways," Dave Rogers, crew chief for #18-Kyle Busch, said Friday on The Morning Drive SiriusXM program. "The advantage is 3 ounces of weight you saved up high in your roof." Busch's #18 Toyota was one of 16 Sprint Cup cars that were delayed from starting practice until changing the spacers, which NASCAR said weren't compliant with the rulebook. Spokesman Kerry Tharp said the spacers support the hinge bar on the roof flaps, which deploy during a spin to help keep a car from going airborne.(USA Today)(7-6-2013)"

Disclaimer: I say the following as an uninformed race fan that knows nothing about how things work in the garage.

From reading TRL's post that Johali directed me to, it appears that the teams that got caught intentionally modified the roof flaps - it wasn't a manufacturer defect or anything. If that's the case, what Dave Rogers said makes no sense to me. Why go through the effort of illegally modifying the roof flaps if it offers no tangible performance advantage? That would make the fact that they got caught pretty silly.

Unless the illegal roof flaps help them at the non-RP tracks and they were made before they got to Daytona this weekend, and were therefore all they had to work with (which would be their own dumb fault anyway), I see no point in even bringing them to the track.

Sounds to me like the guy from Penske owned up to it somewhat and Dave Rogers kinda did the opposite. I can't wait to see what the penalties will be.
 
pjmolo said:
Seems to me it would make more sense for drivers to lose a few pounds (Tony ?) rather than risk getting caught screwing with the rules in order to lose a few ounces.
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I think it's about the center of gravity and Stewart's extra weight is....well, kind of close to ground already.
 
Is this influencing anyone else's fantasy decisions? I'm in a league where driver penalties are passed along to players that picked them. The indicted teams are scattered throughout the field and across all driver salaries. Without knowing if / how much they'll be penalized, I can't see taking a chance on more than one of them.

It's a plate race, when I usually go with my second or even third picks anyway. I usually avoid picking too many cars from the same team or manufacturer, but if you're worried about potential penalties then it's almost impossible not to have an all-Chevy team.
 
Go with the bowties, I have all year. At least one of the Hendrick cars will be in the top ten, usually two. Daytona is a guessing game IMO. The roof flappers are going to be penalized, and my wild guess is that they are going to take points away to give the press something to talk about next week.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Is this influencing anyone else's fantasy decisions? I'm in a league where driver penalties are passed along to players that picked them. The indicted teams are scattered throughout the field and across all driver salaries. Without knowing if / how much they'll be penalized, I can't see taking a chance on more than one of them.

It's a plate race, when I usually go with my second or even third picks anyway. I usually avoid picking too many cars from the same team or manufacturer, but if you're worried about potential penalties then it's almost impossible not to have an all-Chevy team.
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I thought this was about something else when I first read it as I didnt realize that it meant Fantasy league. LOL

Anyway, no, it hasn't had any impact on mine.
 
What fantasy league is that? I do NASCAR.com live, and they dont have anything like that, nor do any other fantasy sites I know of.
 
No penalties for the roof flaps.....

NASCAR on Wednesday determined no penalties were in order for 31 national-series teams caught using noncompliant roof flap spacers last weekend at Daytona International Speedway.
Following what it termed a “thorough review,” the sanctioning body announced there would be no penalties to the 16 Sprint Cup Series teams and 15 Nationwide Series programs that had their modified spacers confiscated last Thursday. The spacers support the hinge bar of the roof flap, which is a safety mechanism designed to keep the car on the ground in the event of a spin.

Link
 
one thing you can count on with nascar is they're consistently inconsistent. I'm guessing they didn't want to deal with 31 teams appealing they had previously been used. Kinda like the 48's illegal C-post last year
 
I think that it's great that Nascar can assess each incident on it's own merits and not be bound by some fans' idea of consistancy. I'm gettin sick of increasingly stupid penalties . In celebration , I'm back with beets.:D
 
Sidewayz said:
one thing you can count on with nascar is they're consistently inconsistent.
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Yessir.

I for one am shocked that NASCAR didn't do anything, just because this is a piece of safety equipment we're talking about. I mean, they say the modifications wouldn't have made the cars more unsafe or affected the racing at all. Cool. So why did Matt Kenseth and his team get penalized even though that one light rod wouldn't have affected the performance of his engine? (Yes, I know the penalty was reduced after they appealed it, but they still got penalized.) Engines absolutely cannot be touched at all under any circumstances, but safety equipment is fair game? Oh, okay. Glad we cleared that up.

And perhaps more importantly, if these modified roof flaps ultimately affected nothing, why in the world would any of the teams have even bothered to use them in the first place? I don't understand.
 
Mr. Gregory said:
Yessir.

I for one am shocked that NASCAR didn't do anything, just because this is a piece of safety equipment we're talking about. I mean, they say the modifications wouldn't have made the cars more unsafe or affected the racing at all. Cool. So why did Matt Kenseth and his team get penalized even though that one light rod wouldn't have affected the performance of his engine? (Yes, I know the penalty was reduced after they appealed it, but they still got penalized.) Engines absolutely cannot be touched at all under any circumstances, but safety equipment is fair game? Oh, okay. Glad we cleared that up.

And perhaps more importantly, if these modified roof flaps ultimately affected nothing, why in the world would any of the teams have even bothered to use them in the first place? I don't understand.
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Answer , weight and only weight . You save an ounce at the top of the car then you add it to the bottom of the car . They lightened up a spacer . It had nothing to do with safety or aero . Nascar will likely ask the supplier to use a lighter spacer in future . It just wasn't a big deal.
 
ted@economy said:
Answer , weight and only weight . You save an ounce at the top of the car then you add it to the bottom of the car . They lightened up a spacer . It had nothing to do with safety or aero . Nascar will likely ask the supplier to use a lighter spacer in future . It just wasn't a big deal.
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Yea what he said !!
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I wonder what would have happened if this had only been an issue on one or two cars? I'm betting there would have been penalties/fines.
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Probably. They probably didn't bother with this considering it was a bad part that a bunch of teams bought probably without knowing that it didn't conform. It wasn't like it was just one team using the parts. :idunno:

The only reason I would buy the "the part gave little advantage" argument is because a ton of teams used the illegal part. I was under the impression that NASCAR didn't care of big or small an advantage an illegal part gave the car; I thought if it was an illegal part, then the team is breaking the rules and they would be fined/docked points. The severity of the penalty may be altered depending on an advantage (see 2 team penalties at Dover vs. Texas of this year) but usually some sort of penalty comes out of these scenarios. So I would have to agree that NASCAR didn't bother penalizing, considering so many teams used the illegal which gave the cars "little advantage" over everybody else.
 
Sidewayz said:
one thing you can count on with nascar is they're consistently inconsistent. I'm guessing they didn't want to deal with 31 teams appealing they had previously been used. Kinda like the 48's illegal C-post last year
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Yeah, NASCAR needs to lay out the penalty for each rules in fraction. Like football does. Holding is a 5 or 15 yard penalty, spiking the football is a 15 year penalty, etc. etc. Although, I do understand why people like it the way it is where they have flexibility.
 
KevinWI said:
Yeah, NASCAR needs to lay out the penalty for each rules in fraction. Like football does. Holding is a 5 or 15 yard penalty, spiking the football is a 15 year penalty, etc. etc. Although, I do understand why people like it the way it is where they have flexibility.
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You'd think a stricter penalty system would eliminate some of the grey-area meddling that so many people seem to dislike, though. A set penalty for any step over the line, no matter how big or small of a step, would seem to discourage "cheating" a lot more than letting some rules infractions slide but penalizing other infractions. The current case-by-case thing that NASCAR has now seems to be confusing for the teams and the fans alike. You don't seem NFL refs giving 2 yard penalties for "minor personal fouls." :D
 
DSquad48 said:
You'd think a stricter penalty system would eliminate some of the grey-area meddling that so many people seem to dislike, though. A set penalty for any step over the line, no matter how big or small of a step, would seem to discourage "cheating" a lot more than letting some rules infractions slide but penalizing other infractions. The current case-by-case thing that NASCAR has now seems to be confusing for the teams and the fans alike. You don't seem NFL refs giving 2 yard penalties for "minor personal fouls." :D
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I see your pic below your post, Interesting that they are team mates and yet that pic is posted????
 
This is a really , really , tiny minor infraction . We're talkin about a little spacer between a nut and a bolt . Some guy said .. Hey this thing weighs an ounce and there are four of them , that's four ounces , if we make the spacers our of something else , we can save a couple of ounces . That's what racing has become , a game of ounces . If you can find sixteen places to save an ounce , you've got a pound . You move that from the top right to the bottom left and you've slightly improved your car . That's what these guys do every day . It's not cheating in my opinion. First thing you know , everyone else in the garage is doing it too . Then Nascar finally catches on and has to make a ruling on the ounce , because someone brought it up . They decide , no big deal . Thank you Nascar.
 
#17D500winner said:
I think it's about the center of gravity and Stewart's extra weight is....well, kind of close to ground already.
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I wonder if they try to take some weight off the left side more than skinny guys like Brad or Joey lol.. maybe Tony has 50lbs more rebound in his left front shock than 90% of the other guys
 
It's what nascar does, nothing is written in stone. They make it up along the way.
 
BOWTIE GUY said:
It's what nascar does, nothing is written in stone. They make it up along the way.
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Of course they make it up as they go along . Nascar can't think this stuff up before it happens . And why should they legislate every nut and bolt and spacer on the car ? Can't they leave a one ounce spacer to the race teams ?Is there nothing left for the race teams to play with?
 
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