Jimmie Johnson asks an interesting question

flozeeahn said:
jimmie johnson is the greatest of all-time. it's really that simple.

jeff gordon was being compared to the all-time greats. in everyone's top-5...top-3 whatever. the most dominant driver we had all ever seen. wins title number 4 in 2001...many more absolutely inevitable.

2002 - enter jimmie johnson....teammate. same organization. ends gordon's reign effective immediately....gordon still in his prime. still seen as the most dominant driver ever with all variables considered. wins 35 more races to close out his career in the next 14 years. with no more titles we were all sure would come. the drive for five just slowly died. while simultaneously johnson wins 75....more than twice as many races while competing with jeff. his teammate. no equipment argument. and 6 titles. to jeff's 0.

jimmie johnson absolutely waxed jeff gordon and whipped him like a rented mule for a decade-and-a-half...the same jeff gordon that many considered would eventually be seen as the greatest of all-time. still winning titles after jeff gordon has retired. multiple wins in every season throughout his career. through multiple formats. even the format that required him to win at homestead which he had never done. x that one off the to-win-at list.

oh, and by the way...has won the last two cup events consecutively by out-driving nascar's new young superstar almost effortlessly. so he still isn't slowing down. you can pick apart the point systems he dominated all you want as your reasoning for not acknowledging him as the greatest ever...but checkered flags are checkered flags...and when he snags his 100th to go with his 8-9 titles, you'll be out of ammo.

and i love me some dale earnhardt sr. but come on...it's jimmie. 7 wins since his last runner up finish. he still dominates everyone on the track and has the most wins of any driver the past 5 years. the 5 years we have been trying to will him into the decline we're imagining. i don't have to speculate how the greats of yesteryear would do against him. the truth is right in front of me.
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I dont know how to respond to this, I still think Jeff is better than Jimmie. If Ray had stayed with Jeff no doubt they would have figured out how to win in the Chase. The Chase screwed Jeff, I'll always believe that no matter what. Jimmie has had the fortune of having Chad, Ron Malec ( SP? Sorry if So) and most the same pit crew with a power house organization. The Only thing Jeff had was the powerhouse organization, he had crew chief and crew change over at least 2-3 times ( When Yates bought the Rainbow Warriors in 1999 was it? and then Ray left to Dodge.) I respect your argument but in my eyes its not that simple. I believe if Jeff and Ray stayed together Jeff would have won the Cup 7-10 times.
 
R Clarence said:
I asked those questions a few times.

Was called a hater. Funny how that works..........
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Well I won't call you a hater. And I don't think we will ever get the chance to see either of them with a different driver/crew chief, but it sure would be interesting to see what Chad Knaus could do with Dale Jr. Ditto JJ in an RCR car.
 
LouieLouie said:
Well I won't call you a hater. And I don't think we will ever get the chance to see either of them with a different driver/crew chief, but it sure would be interesting to see what Chad Knaus could do with Dale Jr. Ditto JJ in an RCR car.
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Always wonder if it’d work the same way under different circumstances.

Larson is running well at the moment, Ganassi has pulled the right strings somewhere. Wonder what the deal would be if Knaus was on the box for the 42. Would it still be happening?
 
Jimmie can drive the loosest race car I've ever seen. Seriously he generates so much speed off the corners he just blitzes the field.

I think this is where you're seeing MTJ excel in today in a similar fashion; great crew chief, aero package and he also can wheel a pretty loose can which is why he's won 5 times in the last 2 years
 
Johnson lost the thing in practice or qualifying a couple three years ago coming off four in Dover.

The slow motion of the wheels while he hit the brakes, clutch and accelerator as needed to keep it off the inside and/or outside fence was totally amazing.

Normally when a driver let's it get away from him there it's gonna hit something.
 
LouieLouie said:
Not to take anything away from JJ because I do think he is pretty darn good, but I would love to see what he could do without Chad Knaus. Ditto for Chad Knaus, I would love to see what he could do with a different driver.
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I suspect both would do alright if they split up but I don't think either one of them would want to break up a good thing (e.g. Gordon/Evernham)
 
Snappy D said:
I dont know how to respond to this, I still think Jeff is better than Jimmie. If Ray had stayed with Jeff no doubt they would have figured out how to win in the Chase. The Chase screwed Jeff, I'll always believe that no matter what. Jimmie has had the fortune of having Chad, Ron Malec ( SP? Sorry if So) and most the same pit crew with a power house organization. The Only thing Jeff had was the powerhouse organization, he had crew chief and crew change over at least 2-3 times ( When Yates bought the Rainbow Warriors in 1999 was it? and then Ray left to Dodge.) I respect your argument but in my eyes its not that simple. I believe if Jeff and Ray stayed together Jeff would have won the Cup 7-10 times.
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fair enough. i can see the logic in that and it's nothing to sneeze at. i just see things differently. i forgot to add in my HUMBLE opinion to close my post.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
The best driver in NASCAR is in the 18 car. But it takes more than raw talent to win championships.
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the 2 certainly has gotten the best of him nearly every time they battle for a win recently

2012 talladega. 2011 pocono(or 2012) 2016 talladega 2016 daytona 2016 vegas 2017 martinsville...it was great watching them in each other's heads last year at watkins glen....their determination to beat one another eventually ending both their chances. their battles at the glen are amazing.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
The best driver in NASCAR is in the 18 car. But it takes more than raw talent to win championships.
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You are right Andy that Kyle is a good driver........ but....

what he needs to do is watch old tapes ...... study David Pearson..... he's good enough to learn from how David raced.........

he then wouldn't have to blame Goodyear every race for giving him inferior tires.........
 
LouieLouie said:
Well I won't call you a hater. And I don't think we will ever get the chance to see either of them with a different driver/crew chief, but it sure would be interesting to see what Chad Knaus could do with Dale Jr. Ditto JJ in an RCR car.
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A few years ago I would say I didn't think Dale Jr was in the necessary mindset to work with Knaus. Today, I think they could pull it off if he was still racing.
 
flozeeahn said:
fair enough. i can see the logic in that and it's nothing to sneeze at. i just see things differently. i forgot to add in my HUMBLE opinion to close my post.
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I think we all have a humble opinion on here, ha ha
 
Pat said:
A few years ago I would say I didn't think Dale Jr was in the necessary mindset to work with Knaus. Today, I think they could pull it off if he was still racing.
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I'd like to see what Chad could do with Kasey Kahne and his team. I really thought he'd contend for Cups at Hendrick ( or is it Hendricks? )
 
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LouieLouie said:
Is it Jimmie that is the best driver or Chad the best crew chief with the best equipment or all of the above?

Not to take anything away from JJ because I do think he is pretty darn good, but I would love to see what he could do without Chad Knaus. Ditto for Chad Knaus, I would love to see what he could do with a different driver.
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Jimmie Chad is the best NASCAR Marriage of the modern era. I think they make each other great.
 
Pat said:
A few years ago I would say I didn't think Dale Jr was in the necessary mindset to work with Knaus. Today, I think they could pull it off if he was still racing.
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Chad has said the only other person he could see CC'ing for is Chase. That is something I would love to see..
 
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kymartin6 said:
You are right Andy that Kyle is a good driver........ but....

what he needs to do is watch old tapes ...... study David Pearson..... he's good enough to learn from how David raced.........

he then wouldn't have to blame Goodyear every race for giving him inferior tires.........
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Very good points as even old Jaws would preserve his car and tires when needed. No issues about Kyle being a really good driver but I don't think he is the best as he is getting close to 9 months without a win.
 
kymartin6 said:
You are more than likely correct...... all the stars lined up...... Kinda' like with Richard and Dale Inman..... when Dale left..... Richard pretty much sucked hind teat.
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One thing I didn't know was that Dale 7 championships with Richard and then an 8th with Labonte in 84. So chad will still need another championship just to tie Dale.
 
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