Just realized this......manufactures

Revman

2X CHAMPION
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
8,633
Points
793
If Toyota spends 7.6 times the average, what's the average?
...and if I read that outdated source correctly, Chevy spends 7.3 times average? With any reasonable Stand Error of Measurement (SEM), you could conclude that Toyota spends as much as Chevy....and if you are going to criticize Toyota for their spending, then you would have to criticize the manufacturer who won 13 Manufacturer Championships in a row I would think. Ford spent nothing in 2017, and then dominated in 2018...would be interesting to see an actual current source to see how much more they spent to get there.
 

Revman

2X CHAMPION
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
8,633
Points
793
I'm assuming that's sponsorship dollars? How is this a bad thing?
Whoa wait, those are sponsorship dollars? The context of the conversation was investment in R&D, etc. Talk about investment!
 

2 Sweet

Legend
Joined
Apr 21, 2016
Messages
3,431
Points
493
Location
Hilliard, OH
nobody said it was..what was said was that Toyota wasn't outspending everybody.
I assumed the conversation was referring to factory support. Resources spent on their teams. Maybe they have a higher budget than Chevrolet and Ford, but I doubt that information would ever be public.
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
41,594
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
Still crickets. If you are referring to me....you (and those like you) don't need me to hate Toyota, and you know that. This Toyota fan buys Toyotas, gets other people to buy Toyotas, goes to races, spends money on swag, and never misses a lap. If you think that is more harm than good for Toyota, you don't know Toyota which is probably the case.
you do sound like a used car dealer. I'll give ya that. :D
 

2 Sweet

Legend
Joined
Apr 21, 2016
Messages
3,431
Points
493
Location
Hilliard, OH
With deals at the sanctioning body, team and track levels, Toyota Motor North America Inc. was the biggest spender in NASCAR during the 2016 season. The company spent 7.6 times more on the sport than the average of all NASCAR sponsors.
I'm a diehard Chevrolet fanboy. I'm not a Toyota defender. That being said, I try to be fair. Those numbers seem like hogwash in the context of our conversation. Nobody knows how much support the manufacturers spend on resources for their respective teams. I think the "team" reference is nothing more than sponsorship/advertising.
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
41,594
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
I'm a diehard Chevrolet fanboy. I'm not a Toyota defender. That being said, I try to be fair. Those numbers seem like hogwash in the context of our conversation. Nobody knows how much support the manufacturers spend on resources for their respective teams. I think the "team" reference is nothing more than sponsorship/advertising.
you think whatever ya want, better yet find some different figures.
 

Revman

2X CHAMPION
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
8,633
Points
793
maybe you can comprehend this
With deals at the sanctioning body, team and track levels, Toyota Motor North America Inc. was the biggest spender in NASCAR during the 2016 season. The company spent 7.6 times more on the sport than the average of all NASCAR sponsors.
Yeah, and I think the conversation was at the team level so in order to have a point (in 2016 anyway), you would have to sort out the sanctioning body and track level spending. Biggest spender could easily be changed to biggest investor when you think about it....and again, Chevy right there with Toyota, but you are good with that, right?
 

machinistman3

Team Owner
Joined
Jul 7, 2018
Messages
1,310
Points
193
All I know is Chevrolet and Ford have help sustain NASCAR from day one. They will always be held in high regard to me. If Toyota is spending that much on 5 cars I would say that is a lot of money per car. Chevrolet and Ford are everyman race cars not just for the elite.
 

mack

Team Owner
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
1,357
Points
243
The argument that Toyota outspends everybody is crap, and the horror of a Japanese manufacturer went hand in hand with that BS early in Toyota's entry. Hence, the reference to a throwback.
Why so angry? I'm ok with Toyota outspending everyone else. They'll spend whatever it takes to win, because they can. Chevy and Ford can't. Joe Gibbs can't spend out of pocket like Haas, Penske and Hendrick. But Toyota can spend whatever through him. What's to stop them? Penske, Haas and Hendrick can't out spend Toyota. So Toyota is sitting pretty in my opinion. And what's even neater, they take all those resources and their boy Kyle and go whoop up on the minor leagues. So much to boast about!!!
 

Revman

2X CHAMPION
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
8,633
Points
793
All I know is Chevrolet and Ford have help sustain NASCAR from day one. They will always be held in high regard to me. If Toyota is spending that much on 5 cars I would say that is a lot of money per car. Chevrolet and Ford are everyman race cars not just for the elite.
Toyota came in and spent when Chevy and Ford financially shot. You give no props for that? You should be thankful. The founding fathers were ready to run the sport into the ground.
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
41,594
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
Yeah, and I think the conversation was at the team level so in order to have a point (in 2016 anyway), you would have to sort out the sanctioning body and track level spending. Biggest spender could easily be changed to biggest investor when you think about it....and again, Chevy right there with Toyota, but you are good with that, right?
 

2 Sweet

Legend
Joined
Apr 21, 2016
Messages
3,431
Points
493
Location
Hilliard, OH
you think whatever ya want, better yet find some different figures.
The fact that Lowes is far ahead of Ford proves my point. The figures are for sponsorship, nothing more.

I think it's pretty obvious that Toyota spends much more per car than Ford/Chevy. We don't need a graph to know that.
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
41,594
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
The fact that Lowes is far ahead of Ford proves my point. The figures are for sponsorship, nothing more.

I think it's pretty obvious that Toyota spends much more per car than Ford/Chevy. We don't need a graph to know that.
so Lowes wasn't sponsoring Johnson and it wasn't Lowes motor speedway?
 

2 Sweet

Legend
Joined
Apr 21, 2016
Messages
3,431
Points
493
Location
Hilliard, OH
so Lowes wasn't sponsoring Johnson and it wasn't Lowes motor speedway?
Huh?

Are you telling me Lowes spent more to sponsor the 48 than Ford spent on all their teams, plus sponsorship? That's ridiculous.

Also, Lowes hasn't owned the naming rights to Charlotte in years.
 

machinistman3

Team Owner
Joined
Jul 7, 2018
Messages
1,310
Points
193
Toyota came in and spent when Chevy and Ford financially shot. You give no props for that? You should be thankful. The founding fathers were ready to run the sport into the ground.
I was more excited when Dodge came back.The demise of the other manufacturers is definitely what is really sad.
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
41,594
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
Yeah, and I think the conversation was at the team level so in order to have a point (in 2016 anyway), you would have to sort out the sanctioning body and track level spending. Biggest spender could easily be changed to biggest investor when you think about it....and again, Chevy right there with Toyota, but you are good with that, right?
look bud, you are the one who said it was crap, (it wasn't) Said Toyota wasn't outspending everybody (they did) and like I said some Toyota fans do more harm than good.
 

2 Sweet

Legend
Joined
Apr 21, 2016
Messages
3,431
Points
493
Location
Hilliard, OH
How is that obvious?
They only have 5 cars. JGR + LFR. Ford and Chevrolet resources are spread pretty thin across all their teams. Obviously some are higher on the pecking order than others, but there's no doubt Gibbs is getting anything and everything they need from TRD. That's not a problem IMO, but they aren't just the top team with Toyota, they are THE team.
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
41,594
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
They only have 5 cars. JGR + LFR. Ford and Chevrolet resources are spread pretty thin across all their teams. Obviously some are higher on the pecking order than others, but there's no doubt Gibbs is getting anything and everything they need from TRD. That's not a problem IMO, but they aren't just the top team with Toyota, they are THE team.
I'm sure he will come up with a perfectly logical answer to that one too. :D
 

2 Sweet

Legend
Joined
Apr 21, 2016
Messages
3,431
Points
493
Location
Hilliard, OH
I'm sure he will come up with a perfectly logical answer to that one too. :D
I could be wrong, but it seems like common sense to me. GM has Hendrick, Ganassi, RCR, and others. Ford has Penske, SHR, Roush, and others. Toyota has JGR.....and one Leavine car.

I'm sure all three manufacturers have racing budgets set by the corporate bean counters. At this point, Toyota can afford to spend more per team. It is what it is.
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
41,594
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
It's like I said way back when in this B.S. thread. The Yotas are a thinly veiled factory team pouring their money into only 4 cars..sorry Guido, you guys are getting table scraps at best. Hopefully the other manufacturers don't follow suit. Many who follow the sport aren't jumping up and down about it. It would be easier and cheaper for the others to do the same thing and have a 12 car field.
 

Revman

2X CHAMPION
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
8,633
Points
793
look bud, you are the one who said it was crap, (it wasn't) Said Toyota wasn't outspending everybody (they did) and like I said some Toyota fans do more harm than good.
A couple of others have recognized the context of the conversation. I have hope for you. Cryptic Toyota comment remains cryptic. Whatevs...bud.
 

2 Sweet

Legend
Joined
Apr 21, 2016
Messages
3,431
Points
493
Location
Hilliard, OH
It's like I said way back when in this B.S. thread. The Yotas are a thinly veiled factory team pouring their money into only 4 cars..sorry Guido, you guys are getting table scraps at best. Hopefully the other manufacturers don't follow suit. Many who follow the sport aren't jumping up and down about it. It would be easier and cheaper for the others to do the same thing and have a 12 car field.
Good point. This is another reason why NASCAR would benefit from another manufacturer joining.

When this sport was really taking off in the 80s and 90s, we only had Ford and GM. Crazy how much times have changed.
 

Revman

2X CHAMPION
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
8,633
Points
793
I could be wrong, but it seems like common sense to me. GM has Hendrick, Ganassi, RCR, and others. Ford has Penske, SHR, Roush, and others. Toyota has JGR.....and one Leavine car.

I'm sure all three manufacturers have racing budgets set by the corporate bean counters. At this point, Toyota can afford to spend more per team. It is what it is.
I mean, you just can't conclude that IMO.
 

ToyYoda

Team Owner
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Messages
20,842
Points
883
Location
Nashville, TN
When this sport was really taking off in the 80s and 90s, we only had Ford and GM. Crazy how much times have changed.
FWIW, GM was split into Chevy, Pontiac, Olds, and Buick at that time, so at least there were 5 different makes competing for a while. Buick left Cup at the end of the ‘91 season (though they stayed in BGN for another couple years after that), Olds bolted after the ‘92 season, and Pontiac hung around until 2003.
 

mack

Team Owner
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
1,357
Points
243
Good point. This is another reason why NASCAR would benefit from another manufacturer joining.

When this sport was really taking off in the 80s and 90s, we only had Ford and GM. Crazy how much times have changed.
Yep, and under the GM banner we had Chevy, Pontiac, Olds and Buick. And all of those makes had a distinctive look. I miss those days. I recall Junior bolting Chevy at the end of 1988. He was too far down on the totem pole. The #3 was top dog with Hendrick right on their heels. Labonte won a time or two for him in 89 in the Bud Thunderbird.
 

2 Sweet

Legend
Joined
Apr 21, 2016
Messages
3,431
Points
493
Location
Hilliard, OH
FWIW, GM was split into Chevy, Pontiac, Olds, and Buick at that time, so at least there were 5 different makes competing for a while. Buick left Cup at the end of the ‘91 season (though they stayed in BGN for another couple years after that), Olds bolted after the ‘92 season, and Pontiac hung around until 2003.
Like I said..."times change" :D
 

aunty dive

Team Owner
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
20,291
Points
883
There are a lot of regionalists up in here.

Globalism is good for professional auto racing.
 

aunty dive

Team Owner
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
20,291
Points
883
The starting line up for Dover
15 Ford
17 Chevy
5 Toyota
Ir looks like TRD has more to spend on fewer cars.

If I had a Toyota and you had one, the above fact would make us faster. This is essentially the whole idea behind auto racing, always has been and quite likely always will be ... unless someone figures out how to cost-cap a large group of liars and cheaters.
 

Charlie Spencer

Short tracks and road courses.
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
19,789
Points
883
Location
Lexington, SC
A couple of others have recognized the context of the conversation. I have hope for you. Cryptic Toyota comment remains cryptic. Whatevs...bud.
What context? The original poster tossed this out and hasn't been seen since; his post is the cryptic comment. Everything since has been based entirely on assumptions, mostly the one you made in the fourth post.
 
Last edited:

28car

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 5, 2016
Messages
212
Points
143
no particular reason on why I didn’t notice this before

The starting line up for Dover
15 Ford
17 Chevy
5 Toyota

I was out fishing all day yesterday on Lake Erie (did not take phone)

With how the Toyota‘s are running well and winning
I have heard that Toyota is ruining the sport and not just from folks on this board
For some reason
I was thinking there would be more Toyota’s than any other manufacture starting each race

Only 5 Toyota’s surprised me
 
Top Bottom