Discussion in 'NASCAR chat' started by 28car, May 4, 2019.
Wasn’t Penske the only Dodge team the last couple years Dodge was in the sport?
Yep. There’s no minimum participation rule.
Like Hendrick is the GM factory team, or is there a difference?
And they won a Championship with BK on their way out
Dodge or Audi. I wouldn't mind seeing Audi get in on the action.
Manufactures should manufacture and sell parts to any team that wants to buy them. Like crate engines for hot-rodding.
I wouldn't mind any new manufacturer coming in. I think a higher end brand like Audi would be a long shot tho. I did some googling and Nissan's name came up a good amount. I think a manufacturer with more affordable cars for the everyday working stiff would be favorited (Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, Dodge).
What parts would be available?
True. The four brands you named are very common and very affordable, and while Chevrolet, Ford, and Toyota do tend to have some high-end, high-performance vehicles in their market, they cater pretty well to the demands of the American public.
For the 3 races Robby Gordon qualified for in 2012, he ran Dodges, not sure that really counts though
I'm not really sure how you got there.
What was Gibbs for all those years they ran GMs before Toyota came along?
The phrase 'factory team' may carry certain connotations in other sports, but that doesn't mean Gibbs is one, or that it would mean the same thing in NASCAR if they indeed were one. 'Bass' has a certain meaning in music but that doesn't apply to fishing unless you're singing in the boat.
The TRD approach is unique. Is JGR a factory team? No, not really. Is any other team as close to its manufacturer? No. Is any other manufacturer as involved as TRD? No. When Toyota came in, it was clear to everybody who signed off on it (including Mr. France) that they would have a different take on how to approach the sport. Having said that, the plan was to have TRD hand over the engine building responsibilities to JGR, and then JGR would become Toyota's Hendrick. However, JGR struggled with reliability in 2011 (Fontana specifically). Joey blew a motor, and Coach got a room in Costa Mesa, and as he observed the TRD tear down to find out what happened, I think the switch flipped, and the conversation about TRD being the Toyota builder started. The rest, as they say is history. TRD Salisbury is a chassis support facility, but I think JGR has a good handle on that. Overall, while TRD builds the motors, the rest of the organization pursues aggressive research and development parallel to JGR as they wait in the wings to support them in any way necessary. TRD considers its five car fleet to be too small, and I think would like to expand to eight. Think an additional car at Levine plus another two car team preferable with its own chassis group. This would provide the room necessary for the young drivers that they are developing.
@StandOnIt refers to this approach as a quasi (my term) F1 like thing, and I don't think he is entirely wrong. If all manufacturers go this route, indeed caution must be taken as we remember what happened to CART when all of the manufacturers went nuts. Having said that, if a manufacturer isn't all in, what is the point of participation--all show? Who in the hell would buy into that? Additionally, if a manufacturer didn't have the opportunity to assert itself and win regularly, what would be the point? NASCAR's obsession with parity might very well be the thing that keeps manufacturers away. Nobody is going to spend millions for a participation trophy.
I thought about this before too. We could see a major team switch to Toyota pretty soon, maybe Team Penske?
Penske’s Fords have won 42 races since he ran the Dodge.
In a little over 6 seasons. And a Cup.
I think so, but I don't want to jinx it. Stay tuned.
So, as this sport stares down the barrel of spec racing and a rules package to ensure parity, I ask this simple question....Why would a manufacturer be interested in NASCAR in its present state? I don't ask this question in a rhetorical way....Just an honest question....If you were a brand, would you be looking here to promote your product?
as we continue to look at multiple winners across all of the brands and really a whole bunch of confusion as to what spec racing and parity really is. Some think having the same lug nuts is spec racing, or anything that smells of a rule, is parity. I could say having so many oval tracks compared to the number of road racing courses would be a problem for new manufacturers and put a question mark behind it and make the same amount of sense. Or I could say all cars are built to a certain set of specifications, does that make all race cars spec cars? Why would a manufacturer want to build a spec car then? And why do certain drivers win driving these spec cars while others finish last if there is parity?
Why does a manufacturer who has a driver development program build superior equipment in the lower series and their drivers win everything in sight and look like stars a coming, but when when they get to the truck series with stiffer competition, they don't do very well. Is that a bad investment and one of the reasons they don't have but 4 cars and a leftover in cup?
For those who throw spec racing around for whatever reason, parts and pieces that are interchangeable across all of the brands, in comparison to saying frame rails will be built out of this material and be this minimum thickness. Both are built to a certain specification, but none of the cars across the brands have frames that will interchange. So when some say spec cars or spec racing, it's a bit confusing. When some say they don't like spec racing when all cars are spec built cars, they are saying they don't like any racing in essence. I don't think they mean that, but it's confusing at best. Parity is in the same vein, some seem to think it is a cuss word when it's intent is to have all follow the rules for close competition and the cat and mouse to work in the grey area is the norm and has been every since the first rule was made.
Fiat-Chrysler (Dodge) would be fun to watch join the grid. Italians in NASCAR -- just awesome!
Building superior equipment is kind of the objective isn't it?
I'm not sure how to evaluate younger talent with seat time so limited these days. The learning curve is so different. These younger guys are going to be fine.
A manufacturer with four cars and one "leftover" might have a had a set back or two in developing its car count. You don't recover from that in a year or two. The same manufacturer might be committed to quality as well.
This is really well said man. Really well said. Great post.
A race team does need sufficient funds to afford the components of a race car, that being said the most valuable components are the people on a team. That includes the pit road guys as well as those in the shop. The Crew Chief and the Car Chief having the final say as to what goes on the track. The driver is the one who has to make their choices work.
That is why there is usually one car in each team that shines above the others.
Kyle Bush and Kevin Harvick lead their teams while Brad K leads Team Penske.
None of the other teams come close to being Championship teams even though some teams have two cars that are very close to each other.
You guys keep talking about LFR but there's Gaunt Brothers Racing that's been Toyota for 2 seasons now
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