Kevin Harvick on Toyota's development program and Cup drivers in Xfinity

I see the sport becoming more and more for ride buyers. I think Kevin is saying Toyota is going to be in a spot to capitalize when that happens
 
I think Toyota is stepping up like Harvick said. They created the 77 ride for Jones so he would not have to look else ware. If you give ride buyers the rides what happens when they are in the back and sponsors get fed up. You then have nothing to put in those seats.
Today's business is changed because Toyota changed it and now the other teams will have to follow suite. RPM better put a lot of effort into getting Bubba sponsored because he is the best chance they have for the future.
RFR blew it by losing a car in Xfinity.
 
Harvick mentions mentoring Cole Custer. I was really high on the kid when Haas bankrolled his way into the trucks, but his progress has been disappointing. Looking ahead, if he gets to cup and with his dad being a big wig at Haas he probably will, I see a mini Menard future so far.
 
When TRD came to NASCAR, they were adamant about not getting involved in driver development. David Wilson addressed this with Nate Ryan in Nate's podcast last summer. I think a significant part of this was the entry strategy Toyota had under Lee White. They wanted to participate. Blend in. The switch flipped when Toyota lost Larson IMO. David mentions losing Larson frequently. Now, I believe that David has full Toyota support to develop drivers. Jack Irving is in charge of "scouting." In fact, it is my understanding that they have proprietary software (I believe developed with Microsoft) which evaluates talent relative to the quality of equipment they are in. Bottom line....this isn't just a commitment--it's a structured program.

I think that historically drivers were the face of the manufacturer. I see a lot of Senior fans with Chevy hats. Then, the COT mess. The COT wasn't a big deal to me, but I hated that NASCAR took the manufacturers out of the equation, and made the drivers the centerpieces. With the Gen 6, NASCAR attempted (half-heartedly) to bring back the manufacturers. I think that TRD's philosophy is to create an environment where the drivers are the face of the manufacturer. In essence, the message to the younger fan is....Here's an Erik Jones hat---drive a Toyota like he does. I like it. David has been very aggressive with this program, and that makes me feel like Toyota is going to be here for a very long time. Great stuff.

However, as @Team Penske mentioned, this has changed the manufacturer business model. Pericak at Ford created their development program this year utilizing Brad K's Truck team, and SHR at the Xfinity level. Chevy is behind. This all costs money, and no doubt fingers will be pointing to Toyota as the root of all of this evil. I'd say that Toyota has committed long enough. Keep up or shut up.
 
StandOnIt said:
It appears that Toyota believes the win on Sunday sell on Monday philosophy. ;)
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They do. Have been citing for a few years the data that at least 1/3 of all buyers identify some connection to NASCAR as contributing to their buying decisions. I've been buying on Mondays my entire driving life, so they already had me. Never have driven anything else, and have never even visited another dealership.
 
Revman said:
When TRD came to NASCAR, they were adamant about not getting involved in driver development. David Wilson addressed this with Nate Ryan in Nate's podcast last summer. I think a significant part of this was the entry strategy Toyota had under Lee White. They wanted to participate. Blend in. The switch flipped when Toyota lost Larson IMO. David mentions losing Larson frequently. Now, I believe that David has full Toyota support to develop drivers. Jack Irving is in charge of "scouting." In fact, it is my understanding that they have proprietary software (I believe developed with Microsoft) which evaluates talent relative to the quality of equipment they are in. Bottom line....this isn't just a commitment--it's a structured program.

I think that historically drivers were the face of the manufacturer. I see a lot of Senior fans with Chevy hats. Then, the COT mess. The COT wasn't a big deal to me, but I hated that NASCAR took the manufacturers out of the equation, and made the drivers the centerpieces. With the Gen 6, NASCAR attempted (half-heartedly) to bring back the manufacturers. I think that TRD's philosophy is to create an environment where the drivers are the face of the manufacturer. In essence, the message to the younger fan is....Here's an Erik Jones hat---drive a Toyota like he does. I like it. David has been very aggressive with this program, and that makes me feel like Toyota is going to be here for a very long time. Great stuff.

However, as @Team Penske mentioned, this has changed the manufacturer business model. Pericak at Ford created their development program this year utilizing Brad K's Truck team, and SHR at the Xfinity level. Chevy is behind. This all costs money, and no doubt fingers will be pointing to Toyota as the root of all of this evil. I'd say that Toyota has committed long enough. Keep up or shut up.
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Is this the same David Wilson?
“We had a plan for Daniel and he was going to run another full Xfinity season to defend his championship and he was good with that,” Toyota Racing Development president David Wilson
 
StandOnIt said:
Is this the same David Wilson?
“We had a plan for Daniel and he was going to run another full Xfinity season to defend his championship and he was good with that,” Toyota Racing Development president David Wilson
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Not sure about the quote, but, yes, David Wilson is the President and GM of TRD.
 
Domino effect, Ford is starting one, Chevy thinks they don't need a development program so far

For some who think the sport will disappear Ford doesn't think so
https://www.sbnation.com/2017/2/21/14625128/toyota-racing-development-nascar-sabermetrics

Beginning this season, Ford is starting up a similar program where it directly signs prospects then assigns them to one of its truck or Xfinity Series teams. In many aspects it mirrors Toyota what has been doing. The program is spearheaded by Dave Pericak, the global director of Ford Performance.

“When you look at longevity in this sport and you look out five to 10 years down the road and you take everything into account, you have to have a pipeline of young talent coming through,” Pericak said . “As a company, we haven’t had a program in place that will benefit all of the Ford teams.”
 
StandOnIt said:
Chevy thinks they don't need a development program so far
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Hendrick was very aggressive in going after Byron and Bowman. Chevy is still counting on him to do all of that. Different approach than Toyota and Ford IMO. This benefits Hendrick. Toyota and Ford are more about all teams--kind of. Toyota will always be a JGR first manufacturer where Ford's focus might be a little more diverse--we will see.

Ford's program is identical in many ways to what Toyota is doing. However, Pericak is a couple of years behind. That matters in the next 5-10 years I think.
 
Much easier and cheaper to snipe an Elliott, Bowman and a Byron IMO.

“Trust me, I have been a tremendous failure at driver development. One year we wrecked 50-some cars and that was enough for me," Hendrick said. "But none of those (drivers) had the experience or the success that William has.”
 
StandOnIt said:
Much easier and cheaper to snipe an Elliott, Bowman and a Byron IMO.

“Trust me, I have been a tremendous failure at driver development. One year we wrecked 50-some cars and that was enough for me," Hendrick said. "But none of those (drivers) had the experience or the success that William has.”
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Very true, and it will be interesting in the next few years to see what the return on the investment is. TRD has a lot riding on Erik Jones IMO. He is the poster boy for the driver development program.
 
StandOnIt said:
Much easier and cheaper to snipe an Elliott, Bowman and a Byron IMO.

“Trust me, I have been a tremendous failure at driver development. One year we wrecked 50-some cars and that was enough for me," Hendrick said. "But none of those (drivers) had the experience or the success that William has.”
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Yep, HMS has had a ton of developmental drivers that were pretty bad and didn't last long. Guys like Boston Reid and Blake Feese come to mind
 
Clutch said:
I think it does strengthen the brand in the US. Down here we all know that if you want a trouble free car you buy Toyota
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I wonder how large an impact win on Sunday sell on Monday has in today's Nascar climate? I'm with you as I have had great ownership experiences with Nissan and Toyota and the Honda motorcycles I have had have been bulletproof. I know that Hyundai and Kia have won a lot of fans too.
 
As you know, I like you pay a bit of attention to these manufacturer things, some around here don't give a flip about it, but I do know when I say Toyota is spending a whole ton of money over everybody else and istgoes all the way down the line. They outnumbered everybody almost combined at the Chili Bowl. So even though Hendrick is representing the GM brand well in cup, it is nothing compared to Toyota. Ford has been getting the most bang for their buck worldwide I believe. The new Ford GT has generated a lot of interest world wide.
 
Revman said:
Very true, and it will be interesting in the next few years to see what the return on the investment is. TRD has a lot riding on Erik Jones IMO. He is the poster boy for the driver development program.
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As Nascar's footprint gets smaller it will be interesting for me see how this impacts the resources manufacturers allocate to it. At some point does a manufacturer get a board of directors that wants to go in another direction? Will another company want to form an identity by aligning with Nascar? It is difficult to know without knowing how much money a manufacturer has tied up in Nascar.
 
StandOnIt said:
As you know, I like you pay a bit of attention to these manufacturer things, some around here don't give a flip about it, but I do know when I say Toyota is spending a whole ton of money over everybody else and istgoes all the way down the line. They outnumbered everybody almost combined at the Chili Bowl. So even though Hendrick is representing the GM brand well in cup, it is nothing compared to Toyota. Ford has been getting the most bang for their buck worldwide I believe. The new Ford GT has generated a lot of interest world wide.
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Yeah, very good point....and I hadn't considered that when you mention Toyota spending that you are talking more than just Cup.

See, the thing with me is that when Toyota announced going to Cup and Xfinity, I winced--I didn't want them to come in an upset the apple cart. However, I was pleased to see that they came to the series with great respect. They truly wanted to blend in, and become part of the NASCAR culture. They did numerous studies about how they would be seen if they chose to enter, and everything was very positive. They have been diligent in making sure that they don't get too far ahead--particularly at that time when the economy was ****, and Chevy and Ford were struggling. I also wince just a bit with the "Made in America" stuff. Yeah, many Toyota products are made in America, but with non-union labor. To many, "Made in America" means with union labor. This, I believe could lend itself to a negative backlash against Toyota--the playing field is not the same. Mr France told Lee White, "Y'all welcome to come and participate. Y'all welcome to win, but only by this much (thumb and forefinger)." Toyota has taken this seriously. However, there is a delicate balance between commitment and spending. Where is that line? I believe that this line existed somewhere in the driver development piece. David has stretched that line probably because TRD feels that 11 years of commitment and investment gives them the right to set trends, and not just blend in any longer....again, however, there needs to be a balance.
 
Cars and racing go hand in hand. With the continuing expansion of global manufacturers world wide, the racing in one form or an other continues to expand also. Their driver development programs aren't just for Nascar either which is interesting.

I've never seen a damn Yarris look like this

 
Skoalbandit33 said:
As Nascar's footprint gets smaller it will be interesting for me see how this impacts the resources manufacturers allocate to it. At some point does a manufacturer get a board of directors that wants to go in another direction? Will another company want to form an identity by aligning with Nascar? It is difficult to know without knowing how much money a manufacturer has tied up in Nascar.
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I think that Toyota hasn't been in this long enough to take it for granted. The concern about Toyota outspending everybody when they came to Cup is a little more complicated than at first glance. Now, did they outspend the status quo (domestics)? Probably. Had the domestics taken NASCAR for granted? Probably. So, has Toyota played by a different set of financial rules? Yes. Was this Jack Roush's concern? Partly, I am sure. What was complete bull**** IMO was that Toyota ever had an intention to come to Cup, outspend the hell out of everybody, and embarrass the series. What would that have done to their initial investment in the long run? Not much that is good. Additionally, however, Toyota had to be weary of what happened in Champ Car when the manufacturers spent like crazy. That hurt the series as well. Again, a delicate balance between spending enough to compete, but not so much that you hurt the series. I believe 100% that Toyota wants to help--not hurt NASCAR--Even if that means they don't dominate. We heard repeatedly last year from David Wilson that the performance in this sport is cyclical. Two reasons for that IMO--1) It's true, and 2) Toyota dominance was new, and I think Toyota was watching very carefully to see how it would be received. I will tell you this--I was worried last year about backlash. In all honesty, I am loving this season. We had our asses handed to us in the first quarter of the year, we have fought back and are now in the hunt. None of this domination bull****. If this was simply about money, we would have never allowed the competition to catch up. Money or no money, I believe that this sport is about the people, and the people I know and follow from TRD are some of the finest I have ever met. This is why I support this organization the way I do.
 
StandOnIt said:
Cars and racing go hand in hand. With the continuing expansion of global manufacturers world wide, the racing in one form or an other continues to expand also. Their driver development programs aren't just for Nascar either which is interesting.

I've never seen a damn Yarris look like this

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Funny you should post this. I have been following WRC like a maniac. Tech is so cool. Drivers are insane. A race against a clock--which really has always been my rush. This is why I used to be so confused about "great racing." To the NASCAR set, that is side-by-side. To the WRC set IMO, it is about firing the engines and having at it--may the best time win. To put it another way....I am that one guy in the stands on a Friday when I go to a Cup event....and yeah, I cheer like hell when one of my TRD Toyotas goes to the top of the board. Maybe that 's stupid. I don't care. I enjoy it.

To your point....No a Yaris has never looked like that, but as I have mentioned, I believe that manufacturer involvement in racing is an expression of that brand....look what we can do! The connection from the consumer to racing is in that idea IMO--no need to have a two door Camry really because this is an expression of Toyota--not a Toyota as you see on the lot. HOWEVER, a significant part of that expression is when a manufacturer kind of reaches over that line to the consumer from the racing side--for example, TRD rims on a Tacoma, etc. From the WRC perspective, it looks like this...

fullsizeoutput_b5f.jpeg


A 205 hp supercharged Yaris with Gazoo Racing badging. Basically, a Yaris for those who follow WRC. Roughly $40,000--for a freakin' Yaris! Stupid? Maybe, but pretty cool too. Same kind of concept as NASCAR though. We can do passenger cars, and we can do race cars. Sometimes, we give you a little of both at once....but this is so dependent upon the consumer. This thing will sell out in Europe (only 400 made), but would probably cause protests of all kinds (if you could get enough people to even care) here.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I wonder how large an impact win on Sunday sell on Monday has in today's Nascar climate? I'm with you as I have had great ownership experiences with Nissan and Toyota and the Honda motorcycles I have had have been bulletproof. I know that Hyundai and Kia have won a lot of fans too.
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I think that it has some impact--Toyota feels that way. However, the dealership side is lame as hell. I have talked to my dealership about oil change discounts on Toyota win weeks, etc. (18% off when Kyle wins, etc.) as a means of getting people into NASCAR and the ownership doesn't even know what the hell I am talking about. IMO, this is on Toyota regionally. Make this matter damn it! Quit just sitting back to see if customers get into NASCAR. Promote it! I will say, however, that my Parts Dept. stocks Toyota Racing gear upon my request. Had some Championship gear for Christmas in '15. Pretty proud of that.
 
StandOnIt said:
Harvick mentions mentoring Cole Custer. I was really high on the kid when Haas bankrolled his way into the trucks, but his progress has been disappointing. Looking ahead, if he gets to cup and with his dad being a big wig at Haas he probably will, I see a mini Menard future so far.
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I don't think SHR is giving him a car to compete with JGR or JRM.
 
Revman said:
Yeah, very good point....and I hadn't considered that when you mention Toyota spending that you are talking more than just Cup.

See, the thing with me is that when Toyota announced going to Cup and Xfinity, I winced--I didn't want them to come in an upset the apple cart. However, I was pleased to see that they came to the series with great respect. They truly wanted to blend in, and become part of the NASCAR culture. They did numerous studies about how they would be seen if they chose to enter, and everything was very positive. They have been diligent in making sure that they don't get too far ahead--particularly at that time when the economy was sh!t, and Chevy and Ford were struggling. I also wince just a bit with the "Made in America" stuff. Yeah, many Toyota products are made in America, but with non-union labor. To many, "Made in America" means with union labor. This, I believe could lend itself to a negative backlash against Toyota--the playing field is not the same. Mr France told Lee White, "Y'all welcome to come and participate. Y'all welcome to win, but only by this much (thumb and forefinger)." Toyota has taken this seriously. However, there is a delicate balance between commitment and spending. Where is that line? I believe that this line existed somewhere in the driver development piece. David has stretched that line probably because TRD feels that 11 years of commitment and investment gives them the right to set trends, and not just blend in any longer....again, however, there needs to be a balance.
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To buy anything union made is ridiculous and asking for trouble. I do my very best to avoid it.
All the unions do is fight so the very lazy are the highest paid trouble makers on the work force.
So everything is over priced. I used to be IBEW and came to realize the union is just another business with the fingers in my pocket.
 
Revman said:
I think that it has some impact--Toyota feels that way. However, the dealership side is lame as hell. I have talked to my dealership about oil change discounts on Toyota win weeks, etc. (18% off when Kyle wins, etc.) as a means of getting people into NASCAR and the ownership doesn't even know what the hell I am talking about. IMO, this is on Toyota regionally. Make this matter damn it! Quit just sitting back to see if customers get into NASCAR. Promote it! I will say, however, that my Parts Dept. stocks Toyota Racing gear upon my request. Had some Championship gear for Christmas in '15. Pretty proud of that.
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One of my local Toyota dealerships has a lot of TRD/Nascar and Kyle Busch items displayed including engines, helmets, racing suits and it is cool. The other dealership has nothing. I don't mean it has just a bit of stuff I mean it has zippo and you would not know Toyota is in Nascar. As a company it would be great if Toyota had promotions to increase Nascar awareness but they would have to pay for them. The problem is that the companies want dealers to absorb the cost of promotions and they are already losing money on things like oil changes. A lot of times you end up discounting a product the person was willing to pay regular price for and hurt yourself worse. It is a balancing act.
 
Team Penske said:
I don't think SHR is giving him a car to compete with JGR or JRM.
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Good point. That could be a big part of it. I know Penske when they switched the first year to Ford were really slow. Some people say these cars are all the same, I don't see it myself. They are also a single car team with a new car. I forgot that Cole got hammered trying to make the playoffs in the trucks by Nemechek with a Chevy Haas had bought and had Jr/Hendrick help with so there is that too.
 
ToyYoda said:
Truex would put them out of business. :D
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ToyotaCare on a new car is three years free maintenance. Think they'd be okay, and.....that just might draw some people to the sport.....but to your point, Jaimie Mac wouldn't get you **** if he drove a Toyota.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
One of my local Toyota dealerships has a lot of TRD/Nascar and Kyle Busch items displayed including engines, helmets, racing suits and it is cool. The other dealership has nothing. I don't mean it has just a bit of stuff I mean it has zippo and you would not know Toyota is in Nascar. As a company it would be great if Toyota had promotions to increase Nascar awareness but they would have to pay for them. The problem is that the companies want dealers to absorb the cost of promotions and they are already losing money on things like oil changes. A lot of times you end up discounting a product the person was willing to pay regular price for and hurt yourself worse. It is a balancing act.
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Yeah, that's why I consider it a regional issue. There has to be commitment. Would love to see it as a corporate directive. Why wouldn't it be? As a company, Toyota is paying a buttload of money to be in NASCAR as we have noted. Do it right!

A step further.....I have had to share space with dealer guys at the track before. Generally, complete idiots. Don't understand the sport, and are there for the free company booze. ....and even further, I have engaged guys at the Toyota Pitpass product display at the track (local dealer guys), and they didn't even know the product. Then, had the the balls to come off like I was the a**hole. To the point, before we sell on Monday (we are already winning on Sunday), let's get the guys doing the selling dialed in. They are not IMO.
 
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Revman said:
Do you think that is due to the manufacturer switch?
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No, I am one person here who doesn't think SHR is putting out very good stuff. We all know Harvick has a top notch CC and he doesn't answer to anyone on what he wants in his car. Someone gives him a hard time and I am pretty sure both Harvick and his CC walk.
Clint's cars are running a bit better now but he still has away to go before he is a contender.
I doubt SHR will improve much with Zippy at the top. They will lose the 10 car after this year which will help the company some. Having Harvick in the Xfinity series does help get a reading on their cars. But if Harvick can't challenge for the lead how is the young guy going to do it?
I am sure when they went to Ford they had a lot of information from the other Ford cars. Remember when Petty went Ford, had to change the front clips for the motor but in no time he was out performing RFR.
 
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