Kyle Busch - Nascar's next great?

BobbyFord said:
It's difficult to even do that based on the number of years a particular driver has/had been racing. IOW, you can't compare Jeff Gordon to Kyle Larson.
If you want to talk about win percentage based on number of races won then Herb Thomas kicks all their asses. :D
  • Overall all-time winning percentage: [drivers with over 100 starts]:
    1. Herb Thomas -- 21.053% (48 wins, 228 starts)
    2. Tim Flock -- 20.856% (39/187)
    3. David Pearson -- 18.293% (105/574)
    4. Richard Petty -- 16.892% (200/1184)
    5. Fred Lorenzen -- 16.456% (26/158)
    6. Fireball Roberts -- 16.019% (33/206)
    7. Junior Johnson -- 15.974% (50/313)
    8. Cale Yarborough -- 14.821% (83/560)
    9. Jimmie Johnson -- 14.498% (78/538)
    10. Ned Jarrett -- 14.205% (50/352)
    11. Dick Hutcherson -- 13.592% (14/103)
    12. Lee Petty -- 12.646% (54/427)
    13. Fonty Flock -- 12.338%(19/154)
    14. Rex White -- 12.047% (28/233)
    15. Bobby Issac -- 12.013% (37/308)
    16. Bobby Allison -- 11.699% (84/718)
    17. Jeff Gordon -- 11.567% (93/804)
    18. Dale Earnhardt -- 11.243% (76/676)
    19. Joe Weatherly -- 10.890 (25/230)
    20. Darrell Waltrip -- 10.383% (84/809)
    (stats from Racing-reference.info and NASCAR Statistics and compiled weekly here)(10-16-2016)
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Jimmie Johnson being in the top 10 of that list is very impressive considering no one else who was a regular winner since the 1980s is.
 
BobbyFord said:
It's also unfair to compare a season with an opportunity to win 70+ races to a season with an opportunity to win only 36 races.
Apples to oranges.
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You can go around and around and it doesn't mean a whole lot. I was mainly talking about the bunching of wins from multiple series to get a number for Kyle.
 
aunty dive said:
Petty Engineering (good choice of name) was at the front of the field in terms of resources and preparation for most of Richard's race wins.
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There were other teams that had resources and preparation also that were quite good. Whether it was factory or under the table.
 
oldgoat said:
There were other teams that had resources and preparation also that were quite good. Whether it was factory or under the table.
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Yes, there were. The 43 didn't win every week.

Petty led the charge to corporate sponsorship and engineering
 
oldgoat said:
You can go around and around and it doesn't mean a whole lot. I was mainly talking about the bunching of wins from multiple series to get a number for Kyle.
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I'm actually not going round and round. I'm stating facts. Check the thread title. Kyle is arguably the sport's next great.
Is he the GOAT? Probably not, but what is the criteria for GOAT? Most wins? Best average?
How can you fairly compare 1948 to 2016?
IMO, there are simply too many variables to pick a greatest NASCAR driver of all time.
We're certainly all not going to agree anyway.
 
BobbyFord said:
IMO, Kyle Busch is every bit as good as anyone that's ever sat in a stock car.
With the current aero package, who is to say any of the oldtimers could even drive these cars competitively? Who is to say any of the current drivers would be fast in a Hudson?
You cannot compare eras, there is too much that has changed.
What is the criteria for GOAT? There cannot be a GOAT that encompasses 1948 - present.
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I think David Pearson is the GOAT but obviously cannot prove it. Out of all the drivers I have seen in an entire career Dale is the best due to wins, champs and his ability.
 
BobbyFord said:
:confused:
Kyle Busch Foundation?
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Do you understand these foundations? Usually the spouse or business partner is the CEO and draws a top salary before any money gets to the charity. Most charities get pennies on the dollar, everything else goes to expenses.

Red Cross... years ago she had a salary of several million and then the scandal.
Now she gets 450 thousand and her expenses are over 6 million. A lot of donation money for just one person.
How about Kurt's Ex and her charity?
 
Team Penske said:
Do you understand these foundations? Usually the spouse or business partner is the CEO and draws a top salary before any money gets to the charity. Most charities get pennies on the dollar, everything else goes to expenses.

Red Cross... years ago she had a salary of several million and then the scandal.
Now she gets 450 thousand and her expenses are over 6 million. A lot of donation money for just one person.
How about Kurt's Ex and her charity?
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No documents to prove these claims?
 
Team Penske said:
Do you understand these foundations? Usually the spouse or business partner is the CEO and draws a top salary before any money gets to the charity. Most charities get pennies on the dollar, everything else goes to expenses.

Red Cross... years ago she had a salary of several million and then the scandal.
Now she gets 450 thousand and her expenses are over 6 million. A lot of donation money for just one person.
How about Kurt's Ex and her charity?
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Are you suggesting that these foundations benefit nobody?
 
Rick said:
No documents to prove these claims?
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It was all over the news here in Canada for months. We don't have access to charities accounts like you Americans can. Just look up a charity's financial yearly report.
 
BobbyFord said:
Are you suggesting that these foundations benefit nobody?
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That's NOT what I said. I said in many cases a charity serves the people of the charity more than it does those it was meant to help. Those Children charity's are some of the worse. There is one who's donations got to building a huge office complex empire in Ottawa and it has been proven that pennies actually help the children.
 
It's hard to give NASCAR drivers credit for their charities when they (I think literally) all have one. While they may enjoy doing good, I'm sure it is also just as much a ploy or mandate from sponsors.
 
BobbyFord said:
I'm actually not going round and round. I'm stating facts. Check the thread title. Kyle is arguably the sport's next great.
Is he the GOAT? Probably not, but what is the criteria for GOAT? Most wins? Best average?
How can you fairly compare 1948 to 2016?
IMO, there are simply too many variables to pick a greatest NASCAR driver of all time.
We're certainly all not going to agree anyway.
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I fully agree with everything you say. All I've said is that I don't agree with merging his wins from different series when others only had wins from the one.
 
Is it really that hard to think that these drivers do this because they actually care? I'm as much of a Kyle disliker as the next off of the wagon Kyle Busch fan but I don't look at him as doing this simply to pad his own pocket.
 
Team Penske said:
That's NOT what I said. I said in many cases a charity serves the people of the charity more than it does those it was meant to help. Those Children charity's are some of the worse. There is one who's donations got to building a huge office complex empire in Ottawa and it has been proven that pennies actually help the children.
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But do you know if this is happening with the KB Foundation?
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Saying Shrub's minor league wins should not be combined with cup wins is easier than falling in love because it is the truth.
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Who says they should? Who is that? Media. Stop listening to them. 15 minutes of NASCAR Radio will tell you why.

aunty dive said:
And his did. For years.
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Which was more significant as I understand it as this "Toyota domination" I have been hearing about.

Nitro Dude said:
Plus, with the tight rules package that the teams have today vs when petty was driving makes the cars so even on performance now that an experienced driver can really make a difference in the outcome of the race. Back when Petty was driving it wasn't that uncommon for a car to have a major performance advantage over the rest of the field, was it? That would in turn make it easier to rack up wins if his did.
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....but yet so many lament the loss of "great racin'" so many fret about. I agree 100% with your post.
 
Revman said:
....but yet so many lament the loss of "great racin'" so many fret about. I agree 100% with your post.
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Most of us don't lament the loss of the racing of the 50s-70s, where one car might win by 10 laps. It's the racing of the 80s and 90s where mechanical grip was far more important than aero grip, and a better car wouldn't generally be prevented from winning because passing the leader is impossible aerodynamically. 40 equal exactly equal cars in NASCAR produces racing like F1, only without the complexity of the courses to keep it interesting.
 
29-4 said:
Most of us don't lament the loss of the racing of the 50s-70s, where one car might win by 10 laps. It's the racing of the 80s and 90s where mechanical grip was far more important than aero grip, and a better car wouldn't generally be prevented from winning because passing the leader is impossible aerodynamically. 40 equal exactly equal cars in NASCAR produces racing like F1, only without the complexity of the courses to keep it interesting.
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Fair post, but I think that most don't have as clear of a picture of what they lament.....just want the good ole days back.
 
29-4 said:
Most of us don't lament the loss of the racing of the 50s-70s, where one car might win by 10 laps. It's the racing of the 80s and 90s where mechanical grip was far more important than aero grip, and a better car wouldn't generally be prevented from winning because passing the leader is impossible aerodynamically. 40 equal exactly equal cars in NASCAR produces racing like F1, only without the complexity of the courses to keep it interesting.
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What downforce numbers were generated in the 80's and 90's on fast intermediate tracks? The target for 2017 is 1,500 pounds. And when did aero push become a thing? I'm with Revman on this one, as a lot of people just want their youth back again because everything was better when we were teenagers!
 
BobbyFord said:
"...Let me try and put that in perspective without trying to make one guy look good versus making another guy look bad. That's not my point at all. Back before the modern era of NASCAR guys were winning races that don't even come close to what an XFINITY or Truck Series race is today.
Some of the races back then were very short, like a 100-miler. Some were on dirt while others were on concrete. We're talking about little tracks all over the country at a time in our sport when you could run, no lie, 60 or 70 races a year.
While I don't want to say it's unfair to compare numbers to numbers, Richard Petty and David Pearson had quality wins, but what Kyle Busch is doing is all quality wins. There's a ton of great competition in the XFINITY and Truck series. These drivers simply don't roll over because Kyle Busch is in the race. From a Truck, to an XFINITY series car, to a NASCAR Sprint Cup race, Kyle might win all three races in a weekend..."
-Darrell Waltrip
.
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We can compare Kyle to Dale Earnhardt and Jimmie Johnson, and Jeff Gordon. He still falls short.

Waltrip is a Toyota shill
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I knew that Samantha looked shady.
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She's a bad
LewTheShoe said:
What downforce numbers were generated in the 80's and 90's on fast intermediate tracks? The target for 2017 is 1,500 pounds. And when did aero push become a thing? I'm with Revman on this one, as a lot of people just want their youth back again because everything was better when we were teenagers!
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They were far higher than 1500 counts.

Aero push is more a function of speed than anything else.
 
BobbyFord said:
But do you know if this is happening with the KB Foundation?
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I don't know a thing about any drivers charities and will not look them up. I was saying having a charity doesn't mean anything as to the kind of person you are. It could mean your kind to animals and sick kids but you can also be making a good buck doing it.
 
Or doing it for all the right reasons.

You're cynical. We get it.
 
Per thread topic: KB is a good Nascar driver, goes without saying, but, when he hangs the 7th CUP Championship Trophy in the case, then we can consider him one of the GOAT. JMHO.
 
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