Kyle Larson Appreciation Thread

SeventyGTX said:
This system is a joke having it come down to the last race of the season between 4 drivers. One guy could have 20 wins or more and the others two or three and something as simple as a tire go down in the last few laps ruin his chance at the Cup.
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That's a great reason why if they're going to do this, they should go all out and go full circle ending it at Daytona Lottery Center.
 
His ability to win championships is entirely dependent on where the finale is and if his team is good at that track in that specific year and functionally nothing else. Even being able to get there doesn't mean anything other than it essentially guarantees him a top 5 finish based on past performance in finale events. I don't think it is arguable that there is an obvious disproportionate distribution of top 4 points finishes for top 4 points finishers in that race since the playoffs were made a winner take all title in the finale.

Will he win a bunch more races? Sure. In fairness, there's going to be a lot of races he's basically handed on a silver platter because other drivers don't want to risk damage bills and are already in the playoffs. You can probably bet on him averaging 4 wins a year through the next 5 years of his career. Unless the High Limit series takes off and he can fully replace his Cup salary doing it, I doubt he's seriously going to leave NASCAR anytime soon. He's motivated by money to be there and there isn't anything on the horizon which can replace the income.
 
Efisher131 said:
It’s hard to predict where Larson lands on the all time wins list in cup. It all depends on how long he races cup full time. The guy could quit in 5 years to go full time sprint car racing and it wouldn’t surprise me. He could also race in cup until he’s 48 and it wouldn’t surprise me. Hell, he even might end up in an Indycar full time. You just never know with him.
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I'm not even sure how career wins rank drivers anymore. The cars are all the same now. IMO it's easier for drivers to get wins now and harder for drivers to build up large numbers of wins

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It’s hard to figure where Larson ends up in championships due to the system currently used, the one race championship is just too random to bank predictions on. It’ll especially be extremely random if the final race is rotated which I predict will happen in the near future to really get that “Game 7 Moment”. I’d be more intrigued to see where he ends up on the all time wins list and how many championship race appearances he makes. I think he can land somewhere in the Kyle Busch- Bobby Allison range of wins if he races Cup long enough.
 
wi_racefan said:
I'm not even sure how career wins rank drivers anymore. The cars are all the same now. IMO it's easier for drivers to get wins now and harder for drivers to build up large numbers of wins

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And yet, his win percentage has been 15.5% since joining HMS. 11% in the next gen.

He very well may be on a hot streak but Johnson's career percentage is 12% (it was ,14% after 2017) and Gordon's is 11%.

Larson won't reach their totals, we certainly can't guarantee predictions, but 50-60 cup wins should be a fairly reasonable guess imo
 
jaqua19 said:
And yet, his win percentage has been 15.5% since joining HMS. 11% in the next gen.

He very well may be on a hot streak but Johnson's career percentage is 12% (it was ,14% after 2017) and Gordon's is 11%.

Larson won't reach their totals, we certainly can't guarantee predictions, but 50-60 cup wins should be a fairly reasonable guess imo
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If he wasn’t “Hung Money” he’d already be closing in on 50. He’s given away sure victory almost as many times as he’s won. Late cautions are to blame for a lot of that, but Logano and some others seem to be able to retain or gain control in those moments. More often than not, Larson loses with a dominant car, and it’s very frustrating to watch as a Hendrick fan.
 
Efisher131 said:
If he wasn’t “Hung Money” he’d already be closing in on 50. He’s given away sure victory almost as many times as he’s won. Late cautions are to blame for a lot of that, but Logano and some others seem to be able to retain or gain control in those moments. More often than not, Larson loses with a dominant car, and it’s very frustrating to watch as a Hendrick fan.
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Idk about 50 lol I'd say closer to 35
 
Efisher131 said:
If he wasn’t “Hung Money” he’d already be closing in on 50. He’s given away sure victory almost as many times as he’s won. Late cautions are to blame for a lot of that, but Logano and some others seem to be able to retain or gain control in those moments. More often than not, Larson loses with a dominant car, and it’s very frustrating to watch as a Hendrick fan.
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Please don't call him Hung Money :rolleyes: :XXROFL: :XXROFL: :XXROFL: :XXROFL: :whoopee:
 
Efisher131 said:
If he wasn’t “Hung Money” he’d already be closing in on 50. He’s given away sure victory almost as many times as he’s won. Late cautions are to blame for a lot of that, but Logano and some others seem to be able to retain or gain control in those moments. More often than not, Larson loses with a dominant car, and it’s very frustrating to watch as a Hendrick fan.
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As a Hendrick fan, you are frustrated by Larson because you think he has given away 21ish race wins? While that is possible, I think most NASCAR fans would not agree.

Since Larson joined HMS:

Larson...21 wins, 1 championship, 134 starts
Elliott plus Byron plus Bowman...26 wins, 1 championship, 390 starts

As a Hendrick fan, it seems like your frustration is misdirected.
 
Efisher131 said:
If he wasn’t “Hung Money” he’d already be closing in on 50. He’s given away sure victory almost as many times as he’s won. Late cautions are to blame for a lot of that, but Logano and some others seem to be able to retain or gain control in those moments. More often than not, Larson loses with a dominant car, and it’s very frustrating to watch as a Hendrick fan.
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Oh and you mentioned Logano....1 championship, 8 wins, 135 races...

21>>>>>>>>8
 
RayinTX said:
Oh and you mentioned Logano....1 championship, 8 wins, 135 races...

21>>>>>>>>8
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Another example of this clown show points system that drivers are operating under. One the one hand, all you hear is win and you are in, on the other hand wins, top 5's and 10's mean little pre-playoff if a driver qualifies for the playoffs. Logano is a perfect example of barely making the playoffs but getting hot while in them. Penske knew it. He announced that he had 6 brand new state of the art cars apiece for every one of his drivers for the playoffs.
 
RayinTX said:
As a Hendrick fan, you are frustrated by Larson because you think he has given away 21ish race wins? While that is possible, I think most NASCAR fans would not agree.

Since Larson joined HMS:

Larson...21 wins, 1 championship, 134 starts
Elliott plus Byron plus Bowman...26 wins, 1 championship, 390 starts

As a Hendrick fan, it seems like your frustration is misdirected.
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It’s frustrating because if this continues, he’ll have given 25+ wins away in his career, and it’ll be the difference between him being considered among the top 5-6 all time, or in the Mark Martin, Matt Kenseth or Rusty Wallace kind of tier.

40-50 wins and 2 titles is a lot different than 75 wins and 3-4 titles.
 
Efisher131 said:
It’s frustrating because if this continues, he’ll have given 25+ wins away in his career, and it’ll be the difference between him being considered among the top 5-6 all time, or in the Mark Martin, Matt Kenseth or Rusty Wallace kind of tier.

40-50 wins and 2 titles is a lot different than 75 wins and 3-4 titles.
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We are going to have to agree to disagree...I don't think any Cup driver ever has nor ever will "give away" 25+ wins over a career. Also you are dismissing the point that his style of driving is high risk/high reward, always has been and always will be.
 
Efisher131 said:
It’s frustrating because if this continues, he’ll have given 25+ wins away in his career, and it’ll be the difference between him being considered among the top 5-6 all time, or in the Mark Martin, Matt Kenseth or Rusty Wallace kind of tier.

40-50 wins and 2 titles is a lot different than 75 wins and 3-4 titles.
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The flip side is that if he didn't always push the envelope he wouldn't have less wins than he does right now. If his driving style had him blow five races he should have won, who's to say it didn't win him 8 races he shouldn't have won.
 
Efisher131 said:
It’s frustrating because if this continues, he’ll have given 25+ wins away in his career, and it’ll be the difference between him being considered among the top 5-6 all time, or in the Mark Martin, Matt Kenseth or Rusty Wallace kind of tier.

40-50 wins and 2 titles is a lot different than 75 wins and 3-4 titles.
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I think you will have a hard time convincing dirt fans of that. Many Nascar fans also. Larson has a win or bust attitude.
 
Efisher131 said:
It’s frustrating because if this continues, he’ll have given 25+ wins away in his career, and it’ll be the difference between him being considered among the top 5-6 all time, or in the Mark Martin, Matt Kenseth or Rusty Wallace kind of tier.

40-50 wins and 2 titles is a lot different than 75 wins and 3-4 titles.
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He's where he is because he drives the way he drives. Reading this reminds me of the sorts of people who complain that if Mike Tyson/Vitor Belfort/Mark Kerr had just a couple of things go differently, they'd have never lost in their respective sports, been the best ever, blah blah blah. It goes against the reality that those couple of things were integral to them ever being a participant in their sport. If Mike Tyson comes from a stable home, he's never walking into Cus D'Amato's boxing camp for wayward children. Larson's driving style and how he approaches the sport is great example of this in my mind.
 
RayinTX said:
We are going to have to agree to disagree...I don't think any Cup driver ever has nor ever will "give away" 25+ wins over a career. Also you are dismissing the point that his style of driving is high risk/high reward, always has been and always will be.
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I agree.

In many cases, he gets the most speed out of the car, and people accuse him of throwing it away. He is usually the fastest HMS car, and his points total is also better than his teammates when considering the body of work or both the brilliance or skills along with the mistakes.

It is easy to analyze the mistakes, but people like to play the expert about it all without knowing who is driving the best. We usually only see the end results; we don't know the whole story about what a driver's ceiling is based on their equipment or conditions for the day.

They can reference lap times, passes, radio chatter, or whatever analytics they prefer, but it is still an incomplete picture. There are some things you will never know unless you are in that seat. I would think trends and performance compared to teammates driving cars from the same shop(s) is about as close as you can get to really knowing, and that also has its flaws.
 
Some people are uncomfortable if they can’t put Larson and guys that do what he does into a box that they designed for him.

You don’t know what you’re going to get from him from one week to the next. That’s a big part of the attraction for me.

JMO, of course.
 
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