Logano's Move

Kiante

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This. Byron wasn’t trying to wreck or hurt Logano’s car when they initially made contact. William has no prior history in cup of trying to wreck someone. Joey meant to drive through William.
He did, but failed miserably at Watkins Glen by destroying the car back in 2018 or 19.
 

Jorge De Guzman

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He did, but failed miserably at Watkins Glen by destroying the car back in 2018 or 19.
He was woefully way over his head in trying to do that and wrongfully egged on by Knaus. I also think it was year 1 or Year 2 of his Cup career, he has done nothing like that since. Not making excuses for him but that was the reality of that situation, he wasn’t comfortable at that point in his career in paying someone back or adequately prepared mentally to do it.
 

Kiante

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He was woefully way over his head in trying to do that and wrongfully egged on by Knaus. I also think it was year 1 or Year 2 of his Cup career, he has done nothing like that since. Not making exercises for him but that was the reality of that situation, he wasn’t comfortable at that point in his career in paying someone back.
I think Byron has had a moment a la Logano back in 2010 when he had enough of Harvick at Pocono.

@Mr. Gregory said it best, Logano after some hardening from dealing with Harvick, Stewart, and Hamlin turned him into the racer he is now. This might be that moment where we see Byron doing the same.
 

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Hilarious. Intentional or not, Byron ran Joey into the wall. You can rationalize it all you want, I don't care.

A mistake on a driver's part in a race for a win doesn't excuse them from retaliation just because it was a mistake. That's nonsense.

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One thing you are forgetting is that fans are rationalizing it one way and Joey completely a different way. Think about this if you are the 22:

You have no wins this year. You aren't locked in. Byron is.
You have the faster car all day.
The only way Byron can beat you is on the restart where the 22 has been a rocket all day long.
Byron to do so gives you zero room even makes minor contact to take the lead.
The 22 clearly feels that was intentional (probably was so Byron could take the lead lol).
With 2 laps left you can pass clean for sure and risk the 24 making a major move that wrecks you and you don't win, thus not locked in.
You do the safest thing possible that served two points...you move him out of the way to one prove a point, two cross the finish line in the safest way imaginable and secure a spot in the playoffs.

Stop thinking about the situation in a biased anti-Joey FAN perspective and see it from the driver's point of view. Since playoff racing started this is becoming more and more normal. The stakes are too high. Blame NASCAR, not the driver's.
 

Jorge De Guzman

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I think Byron has had a moment a la Logano back in 2010 when he had enough of Harvick at Pocono.

@Mr. Gregory said it best, Logano after some hardening from dealing with Harvick, Stewart, and Hamlin turned him into the racer he is now. This might be that moment where we see Byron doing the same.
Yea I agree, for those who are of the belief that “Oh William won’t do anything” and roll over to take it.....I think they’re going to be in for quite the surprise. I also used to be of that belief. But a couple reasons changed my thinking 1.) Byron is running up front now, winning changes drivers 2.) to piggy back off that point, he’s really taken some huge steps this year 3.) from someone who has been through a few of these...to have Jeff Gordon suggest “there might be some pay back” means to me Jeff is going to have a short meeting with William discussing (if he didn’t know already) pay back etiquette.
 

Jorge De Guzman

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One thing you are forgetting is that fans are rationalizing it one way and Joey completely a different way. Think about this if you are the 22:

You have no wins this year. You aren't locked in. Byron is.
You have the faster car all day.
The only way Byron can beat you is on the restart where the 22 has been a rocket all day long.
Byron to do so gives you zero room even makes minor contact to take the lead.
The 22 clearly feels that was intentional (probably was so Byron could take the lead lol).
With 2 laps left you can pass clean for sure and risk the 24 making a major move that wrecks you and you don't win, thus not locked in.
You do the safest thing possible that served two points...you move him out of the way to one prove a point, two cross the finish line in the safest way imaginable and secure a spot in the playoffs.

Stop thinking about the situation in a biased anti-Joey FAN perspective and see it from the driver's point of view. Since playoff racing started this is becoming more and more normal. The stakes are too high. Blame NASCAR, not the driver's.
I’ll apply this same thinking when William repays Joey back... maybe in the playoffs where it might hurt the most.
 

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I’ll apply this same thinking when William repays Joey back... maybe in the playoffs where it might hurt the most.

I mean, does everything i said apply to byron paying back? Then yes. But Byron driving a big green tractor off of pit road when he has zero chance of winning ala Kennseth and Byron gets suspended. My guess is we won't see a payback that actually impacts anything...might see it in a meaningless race. Most of these guys know they can't keep going round and round. Joey feels they are even (right or wrong, that's how he feels) so any payback from Byron that messes up Joey's champ hopes, it will be returned to ruin Byron's also.
 

Jorge De Guzman

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I mean, does everything i said apply to byron paying back? Then yes. But Byron driving a big green tractor off of pit road when he has zero chance of winning ala Kennseth and Byron gets suspended. My guess is we won't see a payback that actually impacts anything...might see it in a meaningless race. Most of these guys know they can't keep going round and round. Joey feels they are even (right or wrong, that's how he feels) so any payback from Byron that messes up Joey's champ hopes, it will be returned to ruin Byron's also.
I do think you’re right in a way. If payback is coming from Byron, it’s going to be the way Chase got his receipt from Denny in Phoenix. So slight, but got the message across.
 

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This. Byron wasn’t trying to wreck or hurt Logano’s car when they initially made contact. William has no prior history in cup of trying to wreck someone. Joey meant to drive through William.
And it's understandable why.
 

Jorge De Guzman

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And it's understandable why.
It sure is. He was going for the win that’s fine, it’s the way NASCAR is now with the”win and you’re in” system. I just wonder if it will be as understandable if/when William does it back.
 

Ford 222

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It sure is. He was going for the win that’s fine, it’s the way NASCAR is now with the”win and you’re in” system. I just wonder if it will be as understandable if/when William does it back.
Probably not since Joey thinks they are even now.

If I'm a Joey fan, I'm hoping there is a conversation where William understands what Joey's thinking was in the heat of the moment and comes away with the attitude if it's Joey and I for a win, I know what I have every right to do.
 

Jorge De Guzman

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Probably not since Joey thinks they are even now.

If I'm a Joey fan, I'm hoping there is a conversation where William understands what Joey's thinking was in the heat of the moment and comes away with the attitude if it's Joey and I for a win, I know what I have every right to do.
That’s fair, hopefully it’s made crystal clear what William will have to do if they are 1-2 again going for a win.
 

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In racing, these things happen. Byron did run the 22 car into the wall on the restart. I wonder ......... if a tire had gone down on the 22 car as a result if the action taken by Byron if fans would be as boisterous.:idunno:
I watched and listened to the video and do not dispute Logano intended to move Byron up the track and go for the win, a justifiable move considering his car has shown greater speed, especially on the restart.

What I do dispute is the hard hit as intentional. In listening to the video Lagano lifted well before impact, closing on the 24 was quicker which told me Byron lifted early trying to correct a loose condition that anyone could see in the final laps. In the final analysis, it was racing and this week Lagano wears the black hat.
 

Revman

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I'm saying it looks to me like Byron didn't bump him intentionally, that there was no cause for 'retaliation'. Obviously it's easier to say that on Monday morning with the ability to replay a video repeatedly, than it is to realize that behind the wheel at 160+ mph and 3+ hours of fun with two laps to go.
...and that is a question I have....Is retaliation warranted even when a guy screws up and gets into somebody?
 

Ford 222

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...and that is a question I have....Is retaliation warranted even when a guy screws up and gets into somebody?
Its always going to be when they can get back to you without the benefit of calming down, seeing the replay, maybe getting an apology or at least a conversation on why you may have tried to ruin my race.
 

Revman

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How does Chase Briscoe's move factor into this discussion? Better, same, or worse than Logano's deal?
 

2 Sweet

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...and that is a question I have....Is retaliation warranted even when a guy screws up and gets into somebody?

That's where opinions seem to differ.

The more important question, IMO, is what level of retaliation is necessary/acceptable depending on the context of the situation. The punishment should fit the crime. I understand payback, but taking it too far just means you still aren't even and have it coming back your way at some point.
 

Revman

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One thing you are forgetting is that fans are rationalizing it one way and Joey completely a different way. Think about this if you are the 22:

You have no wins this year. You aren't locked in. Byron is.
You have the faster car all day.
The only way Byron can beat you is on the restart where the 22 has been a rocket all day long.
Byron to do so gives you zero room even makes minor contact to take the lead.
The 22 clearly feels that was intentional (probably was so Byron could take the lead lol).
With 2 laps left you can pass clean for sure and risk the 24 making a major move that wrecks you and you don't win, thus not locked in.
You do the safest thing possible that served two points...you move him out of the way to one prove a point, two cross the finish line in the safest way imaginable and secure a spot in the playoffs.

Stop thinking about the situation in a biased anti-Joey FAN perspective and see it from the driver's point of view. Since playoff racing started this is becoming more and more normal. The stakes are too high. Blame NASCAR, not the driver's.
Yeah, and what the hell is unintentional on that restart from a Byron perspective? He didn't know that the potential existed for a little contact when running Joey up like that? I mean he can say it was an accident, but he knew the risks, and took them.
 

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How does Chase Briscoe's move factor into this discussion? Better, same, or worse than Logano's deal?
It was an entirely different deal. It was an overly ambitious move for the win that had no chance of working out, and he knew right away and admitted as much. I don’t think he’ll be trying that again.

Logano saw red mist after a perceived slight in a narrow, bumpy part of the track. If making slight contact on a restart meant you could turn your car into a bulldozer later on we’d never see more than 10 cars finish a race.
 

Revman

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That's where opinions seem to differ.

The more important question, IMO, is what level of retaliation is necessary/acceptable depending on the context of the situation. The punishment should fit the crime. I understand payback, but taking it too far just means you still aren't even and have it coming back your way at some point.
Absolutely, and this is where credibility is at risk IMO. The big dick contest is stupid....If you have the right to deliver a payback, make it the same situation as what screwed you....but what are the chances that William will find himself in Joey's position in the near future? ....and this is what makes all of the threats of "got one coming" so completely ridiculous.
 

Revman

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It was an entirely different deal. It was an overly ambitious move for the win that had no chance of working out, and he knew right away and admitted as much. I don’t think he’ll be trying that again.

Logano saw red mist after a perceived slight in a narrow, bumpy part of the track. If making slight contact on a restart meant you could turn your car into a bulldozer later on we’d never see more than 10 cars finish a race.
So, you believe that a guy with a dirt background didn't understand what could happen when he initiated that move? Same thing in Indy then with Denny? Does Reddick owe one to Briscoe?
 

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So, you believe that a guy with a dirt background didn't understand what could happen when he initiated that move? Same thing in Indy then with Denny? Does Reddick owe one to Briscoe?
If Reddick gave him one back it wouldn’t bother me.

Whatever he thought he would pull off was different than what was actually capable. He was wrecking himself before he even got into Reddick. I do not think that at all worked out as he intended, and was simply a miscalculation.
 

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Byron is the fool here, he doesn't owe Joey anything. NASCAR media has done a poor job of covering this, probably because villaifying Logano is good tv.

Logano was 100% in the right.

Byron flat have him no room, made contact with Logano out of 2, ran him into the wall. He had it coming. He dished it out, then cried about it like a brat when it came back to bite him.

That's what happened.


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Logano flat dumped him without trying to pass him. Turd move.
 

Revman

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If Reddick gave him one back it wouldn’t bother me.

Whatever he thought he would pull off was different than what was actually capable. He was wrecking himself before he even got into Reddick. I do not think that at all worked out as he intended, and was simply a miscalculation.
I don't agree. Chase threw it in there without regard to what could happen to the leader. Intentionally wreck him? No, but didn't intentionally keep from wrecking him either. Then, he capitalized on his charm to smooth everything out. I think it was a bigger act of disrespect to approach Reddick in the way he did with 0 regard to how pissed he could have been--regardless of his cute "I might get hit in the face" line. I appreciate that Reddick and Briscoe are friends, but even friends need boundaries, and I think Tyler can expect more of what he got because he sent a message to Briscoe that all was good. Reddick's team look less than pleased in some photos. Where did that "do it for the team" thing go?
 

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Sure,
but Joey now has a win
Mission accomplished

Had Joey already had a win
I think he would have done it differently
 

AndyMarquisLive

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A lot of racers would've done what Logano did. Byron put him in the wall, and then Logano was behind him with two laps to go and said "**** it" and punted him.

It was an a**hole move though.
 

2 Sweet

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Nashville Fairgrounds....the night before



Are you comparing this to the Logano/Byron deal? Seriously? Apples and oranges. I'm assuming you can differentiate between what happened here and what happened yesterday, so I'm really not sure what you're getting at.
 

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If Williams retaliates, which I think he should, when do you do it? You can pretty much guarantee if he does, Joey will come right back at him and more than likely will do so in the playoffs.
 

Charlie Spencer

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Byron was about a second ahead with 5 laps to go. He shouldn't have let Logano get to his bumper :idunno:
That #24 went to pot in a big hurry over those last five laps. I don't know if Byron wore out his gear or what, but the #22 was definitely running better at the end. The only people who said it would be close were the shills in the booth, and they were probably saying it without believing it.

It's Darlington - comers and goers. We saw it all race with other cars late in runs.
 

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That #24 went to pot in a big hurry over those last five laps. I don't know if Byron wore out his gear or what, but the #22 was definitely running better at the end. The only people who said it would be close were the shills in the booth, and they were probably saying it without believing it.

It's Darlington - comers and goers. We saw it all race with other cars late in runs.
I saw the same thing, Byron's car was falling apart quickly. The rate of closure was insane. No alibi for Logano, because I think he meant to move him, but he misjudged how slow Byron was going and his nudge turned into a dump.
 

Charlie Spencer

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I saw the same thing, Byron's car was falling apart quickly. The rate of closure was insane. No alibi for Logano, because I think he meant to move him, but he misjudged how slow Byron was going and his nudge turned into a dump.
Byron didn't intend to rub Logano, Logano didn't intent to totally dump Byron. Just two of them racing deals, the kind that keep me coming back to Darlington.
 

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I think the new car really shined at Darlington. They were harder than hell to drive, the tire fall off was perfect, they weren't driving single lane don't touch me China dolls, but cars that could take a beating. Byron probably wouldn't say that about the tires, but :idunno:
 

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All day drivers were having trouble coming off turn 2. MRN quoted Harvick during the race as saying off turn 2, where the new asphalt transitioned to the old stuff, that the back end would get light there and it was hard to control. Several spins happened in that area; I suspect it's why Brad spun almost immediately after the race started.

Watch the video again. At the 0:16 - 0:17 mark, when Byron comes off the new asphalt, the #24 jumps to the right and bumps Logano. I think Joey got his nose out of joint over something that had been happening all race. If I knew it was a problem in the stands, his team should have known and told him about it.
I get that, but it still happened.

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Blaze

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Byron is the fool here, he doesn't owe Joey anything. NASCAR media has done a poor job of covering this, probably because villaifying Logano is good tv.

Logano was 100% in the right.



Byron flat have him no room, made contact with Logano out of 2, ran him into the wall. He had it coming. He dished it out, then cried about it like a brat when it came back to bite him.

That's what happened.


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Joey should’ve just did the same move back then, not like Byron meant to do it either. Running through someone isn’t the same as what William did. Not even close to the same
 
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