Manufacture war

Taco said:
Yea and they employ Americans, but that doesn't change the fact that they're a foreign corporation.
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There are nothing but global cars now, there's really no foreign or domestic anymore. The nameplates now just indicate which country's CEO's get the fattest bonuses.
 
kyle18fan said:
Only Toyota has downforce ...... all the others produce lift ... much like an airplane wing :(
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It's in the downforce producing secret compartments on the Toyotas. Shhhhhhhhhhh...........
 
ToyYoda said:
There are nothing but global cars now, there's really no foreign or domestic anymore. The nameplates now just indicate which country's CEO's get the fattest bonuses.
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That's what makes America so rich, we have so damn many high end jobs
 
Wrangler1 said:
GM has 8 wins, Ford has 8 wins (7 non-cucumbed), and Toyota has 5 wins.

Ironic how the overall performance seems to be the inverse of that ranking.
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Right, before New Hampshire Truex was the only Toyota winning and we were talking about how Toyota is struggling overall
 
I wonder if by fining and taking away from the Fords was the answer? Seems like after they took points from Brad then the win from Joey it made the Toyota faster. :rolleyes:
 
BradBlaney said:
Right, before New Hampshire Truex was the only Toyota winning and we were talking about how Toyota is struggling overall
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It's insane man. Now, something has to be done about the Toyotas. LOL
 
Team Penske said:
I wonder if by fining and taking away from the Fords was the answer? Seems like after they took points from Brad then the win from Joey it made the Toyota faster. :rolleyes:
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There are those who bristle over the idea that post-Richmond, Fords haven't been the same. Something was taken away IMO, and Brad's post Pocono comments about Toyota performance kind of flew under the radar. I posted early that Ford needed to enjoy the performance while it lasted. It lasted IMO.

Worth watching the 42 as well. He has been ordinary lately after the encumbered finish.

Toyota's turn will come. I just hope not too soon. ;)
 
The most important statement I have read about it was from Rodney Childers, he always appears to be a straight shooter. He said they started enforcing some aero "things" on the Fords that they weren't enforcing. Sure made sense to me, not one but all of them slowed down. So it might not be a matter of the Toyotas "finding" something, but the others have been slowed down a bit. I'm not getting in the middle of all that of what the Fords were doing was illegal or not, didn't hear a whiff of any penalties like they used to do with Chad and his aero experiments. I think in today's world Ford came out of the wind tunnel with a fast car and Nascar decided they didn't like it.
 
StandOnIt said:
The most important statement I have read about it was from Rodney Childers, he always appears to be a straight shooter. He said they started enforcing some aero "things" on the Fords that they weren't enforcing. Sure made sense to me, not one but all of them slowed down. So it might not be a matter of the Toyotas "finding" something, but the others have been slowed down a bit. I'm not getting in the middle of all that of what the Fords were doing was illegal or not, didn't hear a whiff of any penalties like they used to do with Chad and his aero experiments. I think in today's world Ford came out of the wind tunnel with a fast car and Nascar decided they didn't like it.
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Good points. However, I think that Rodney is doing some of the old school NASCAR lobbying as well. Regarding the Toyotas not speeding up, but everybody else slowing down......I really think you have something there. There was a comment made early in the the year by Todd Berrier (I think) where he mentioned in passing that JGR had been very conservative in their set ups in terms of pushing the legal envelop. I think that JGR (Toyota) probably lobbied NASCAR a bit to enforce the templates differently. Regarding legality, please remember that I am all about pushing the envelop, and maybe even crossing the line--part of the game. I do believe that whatever the 22 was doing pissed NASCAR off. Gordon says that it was nothing at the same time Logano says that they went too far. Obviously, something was there. I think the same thing about the 42.

Ford has increased their investment in NASCAR under Pericak. I don't think that NASCAR would want them to be unsuccessful--in fact, I think the opposite.
 
Toyota came out with a new front end, they were slow, Ford did the same thing years ago when they came out with their new front end with the plastic insert that kept flying off. Nobody ever says our Ford or Chevy or Toyota is SLOW. They say we are a little off, we are close, all kinds of B.S. but the bottom line they are slow. The Fords came out of the box fast this year, the Toyota's were slow, it was unbalanced. The Fords got some changes and they are a bit slower. In all of this, I think the Chevy's need more help than the other two. But what do I know. Toyota might have been sandbagging, wouldn't be the first time. And they aren't the first one to do that either.
 
StandOnIt said:
Toyota came out with a new front end, they were slow, Ford did the same thing years ago when they came out with their new front end with the plastic insert that kept flying off. Nobody ever says our Ford or Chevy or Toyota is SLOW. They say we are a little off, we are close, all kinds of B.S. but the bottom line they are slow. The Fords came out of the box fast this year, the Toyota's were slow, it was unbalanced. The Fords got some changes and they are a bit slower. In all of this, I think the Chevy's need more help than the other two. But what do I know. Toyota might have been sandbagging, wouldn't be the first time. And they aren't the first one to do that either.
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New Toyota had nothing to do with it really. They were slow with the old body at Kentucky and Michigan last year where the '17 package was tested.

Sandbagging is very much a possibility on the Toyota side. With the new playoff structure, it would make sense to hold back until go time. It is go time. Will be interesting.

Not sure Ford is as bad as Rodney says, and I really don't know what is up with Chevy.
 
Jeffrey00 said:
Toyota definitely have found something, especially the 18 and 78 and as a fan of the sport that is frustrating. At the end of the second segment the 18 and 78 had a 16 second lead over 3rd place Harvick. 16 freaking seconds. Plus the total dominance by the 18 at the end. Sorry I don't buy into the whole 10 lap fresher tires. Sure it would make up some difference, but not what the 18 did.
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Talked to a buddy of mine who knows way more about NASCAR then I do but doesn't follow it more than I do these days and basically his theory is they have just found something the other teams haven't yet or they are pushing the envelope of the rules and getting away with it. Mind you, he has no stake in the game and actually likes Truex a lot. Not sure how many of you will agree with that but something is going on for the 18 and 78 to lead the way they do every week. I'm not saying they are cheating but it's very possible they did figure something out that no one else has yet.
 
Flyer22 said:
Talked to a buddy of mine who knows way more about NASCAR then I do but doesn't follow it more than I do these days and basically his theory is they have just found something the other teams haven't yet or they are pushing the envelope of the rules and getting away with it. Mind you, he has no stake in the game and actually likes Truex a lot. Not sure how many of you will agree with that but something is going on for the 18 and 78 to lead the way they do every week. I'm not saying they are cheating but it's very possible they did figure something out that no one else has yet.
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This....and this is what I love about this sport.
 
Revman said:
New Toyota had nothing to do with it really. They were slow with the old body at Kentucky and Michigan last year where the '17 package was tested.

Sandbagging is very much a possibility on the Toyota side. With the new playoff structure, it would make sense to hold back until go time. It is go time. Will be interesting.

Not sure Ford is as bad as Rodney says, and I really don't know what is up with Chevy.
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I don't know what you were watching but they weren't slow at Kentucky

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Jr said at Pocono we all pit together all season long. The Toyotas are using the same springs and shocks that everybody else uses, we have all seen underneath their cars there is nothing going on under there.
 
StandOnIt said:
Watkins Glenn coming up, should be pretty equal both days.
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To me Road Courses are 90% driver. I like that. Plus with all the camera angles and in car cameras now at road courses you really get to see what is going on all over.:booya: I really like the split screen when they show the driver and the feet working the throttle and braking on the screen at the same time.
 
Revman said:
What does this data say....really?
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you can't see that they were in the top 10 or better all day long? And when it was go time Edwards came in second? You say Toyotas are slow, but I think you mean to say Busch is slow.;)
 
StandOnIt said:
you can't see that they were in the top 10 or better all day long? And when it was go time Edwards came in second?
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Got anything on pit strategy, tires, fall off, performance relative to other 1.5 milers where Toyota was dominant at that time? No, I can't see that. BTW, top 10 is fast for somebody who struggles to run in the top 10. A disappointment for "fast" teams.
 
Revman said:
1. Hand on heart---Would you be posting this if your avi was different?
2. Ford was the rage early.
3. Give it time. NASCAR will share your frustration, and either make something illegal or penalize the Toyotas. If they don't, my guys aren't trying hard
enough, and then I would be pissed.
4. The guy that drives that 18 is pretty good, really.
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Yes, because I am a Harvick fan and like a bunch of Ford guys doesn't mean I hate Toyota. I am actually a huge Daniel Suarez fan.
 
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