Manufacturer Battle

HoopsMcCann said:
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Your post is a perfect example of what the manufacturers war used to be like. A quarter inch extra of rear spoiler for one manufacturer could cause all sorts of fighting among fans and crew chiefs. Many fans thought that their manufacturer was getting the short end of the stick with each change and it went on week after week and year after year. A lot of the fans would love a certain driver if he drove their make but as soon as that changed they hated the guy.

I think the manufacturers war has been over in the eyes of most fans for many years now. It really hit me that it was over when Tony Stewart had to drive a Toyota for a year and none of his fans left. If that had happened 10 years earlier a ton of his fans would have left and he would have picked up a ton of new ones all due to manufacturer loyalty. There are fans today that may have 3 favorite drivers representing all the manufacturer and that would have been a rare occurrence in the 90's. Your were either GM or Ford back then.
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Great post....I was shocked that Harvick agreed to drive a Ford. I know that much of the manufacturer focus is gone, but I want it back. One only need to look to RCR's "Command Center" featured on NBCSN last night to see that the tech/engineering part of this game is not dead.
 
HoopsMcCann said:
I


Your post is a perfect example of what the manufacturers war used to be like. A quarter inch extra of rear spoiler for one manufacturer could cause all sorts of fighting among fans and crew chiefs. Many fans thought that their manufacturer was getting the short end of the stick with each change and it went on week after week and year after year. A lot of the fans would love a certain driver if he drove their make but as soon as that changed they hated the guy.

I think the manufacturers war has been over in the eyes of most fans for many years now. It really hit me that it was over when Tony Stewart had to drive a Toyota for a year and none of his fans left. If that had happened 10 years earlier a ton of his fans would have left and he would have picked up a ton of new ones all due to manufacturer loyalty. There are fans today that may have 3 favorite drivers representing all the manufacturer and that would have been a rare occurrence in the 90's. Your were either GM or Ford back then.
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i am a weird one i guess. i loved Mark Martin, Jeff Gordon, Sr., Jr., Kenseth, and many more i liked all the manufacturers.
 
Interesting thread. However, a lot of hunches and general impressions are getting dressed up like measurable facts, in my opinion. It's really hard for a TV viewer to know who is objectively faster and who is not. I like to look at Central Speed Rankings published by Motorsports Analytics to help me make sense of it all.

For most of 2020, Chase Elliott has ranked as the fastest car in Central Speed. But Blaney has come on strong in recent races, and now has inched ahead of Chase into first place in the speed rankings. After 19 races, the Central Speed Rankings are...

Blaney 5.06
Elliott 6.12
Truex 6.63
Harvick 6.76
Logano 7.53
B Kez 8.59
Hamlin 8.62
Kyle B 8.65
Bowman 9.24
Almirola 11.24

It's also interesting to look at data for the final 25% of each race, because that is when most races are won or lost. Fastest in late race speed over 19 races is Keselowski, followed by Blaney, Harvick, Hamlin, Elliott, Kyle B, Kurt B, Truex, Bowman, Logano.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Interesting thread. However, a lot of hunches and general impressions are getting dressed up like measurable facts, in my opinion. It's really hard for a TV viewer to know who is objectively faster and who is not. I like to look at Central Speed Rankings published by Motorsports Analytics to help me make sense of it all.

For most of 2020, Chase Elliott has ranked as the fastest car in Central Speed. But Blaney has come on strong in recent races, and now has inched ahead of Chase into first place in the speed rankings. After 19 races, the Central Speed Rankings are...

Blaney 5.06
Elliott 6.12
Truex 6.63
Harvick 6.76
Logano 7.53
B Kez 8.59
Hamlin 8.62
Kyle B 8.65
Bowman 9.24
Almirola 11.24

It's also interesting to look at data for the final 25% of each race, because that is when most races are won or lost. Fastest in late race speed over 19 races is Keselowski, followed by Blaney, Harvick, Hamlin, Elliott, Kyle B, Kurt B, Truex, Bowman, Logano.
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How do they rate speed? I rate on who is winning when the flag drops, anything else is just semantics.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Interesting thread. However, a lot of hunches and general impressions are getting dressed up like measurable facts, in my opinion. It's really hard for a TV viewer to know who is objectively faster and who is not. I like to look at Central Speed Rankings published by Motorsports Analytics to help me make sense of it all.

For most of 2020, Chase Elliott has ranked as the fastest car in Central Speed. But Blaney has come on strong in recent races, and now has inched ahead of Chase into first place in the speed rankings. After 19 races, the Central Speed Rankings are...

Blaney 5.06
Elliott 6.12
Truex 6.63
Harvick 6.76
Logano 7.53
B Kez 8.59
Hamlin 8.62
Kyle B 8.65
Bowman 9.24
Almirola 11.24

It's also interesting to look at data for the final 25% of each race, because that is when most races are won or lost. Fastest in late race speed over 19 races is Keselowski, followed by Blaney, Harvick, Hamlin, Elliott, Kyle B, Kurt B, Truex, Bowman, Logano.
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I appreciate the inside look at this stat. I don't see a path to show that Harvick and Hamlin are ranked below Blaney, Chase, and Truex on speed, I would have to question how they're coming to that conclusion, and what exactly they are including in their measurement. I would guess that their model is pushing Hamlin down due to inconsistency, yet that still leaves Harvick to be explained. I don't think it's always as easy as sort by win column, but in this case, it might be, or is very close imo.

This may be a simpleton approach and no bulletproof way of statistical measurement, but I like to look at laps led in combination with all the other peripheral factors including win column, eye test. It typically reflects where I would rank them on speed personally, with a few adjustments.
Laps Led.png


Harvick and Hamlin up top with Blaney, Truex, Elliott, Kez, Logano in behind them. Logano can be explained by leading 200+ at Martinsville in combination with early season success, I would personally move him down the chart since returning from break, but he's still in that strong 2nd tier group. (short track laps led can balloon this stat, so I try to be conscious of that). Harvick having led the most with close to zero short track success, tells me he is the dominating the 1.5s on the most consistent basis. Hamlin has been all or nothing, yet still positioned well by the stat. Elliott, Blaney, and Truex are all lighter in the win column than they probably should be compared to how strong they have been leading laps, it's just hard to convert in Cup, as we all know luck is a thing. Random draw qualifying is another wrench that gets thrown into this.

Harvick, Hamlin, Kez are having the most Championship caliber seasons, thus far. Harvick is on pace for the lowest avgF since 07' Gordon 99' DJ.

Manufacturer ranking based on laps led, tells me Ford is leading the way (Harvick, Kez, Blaney, Logano >>Almirola)....Toyota behind them (Hamlin, Truex >>KB then Chevy slightly behind them (Elliott, Bowman >> Johnson).

That's how I look at it.
 
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