Mark Martin on different body styles:

Ford 222

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I loved this back in the day. Want this again

I'm as big a Mark fan as there ever was.....but he and every other driver whined to the high heavens when they thought another make had the advantage. I DISTINCTLY remember him saying a car in motion, 5 mph vs 150 mph, had an advantage if it had more downforce or was less slippery (whatever the Fords were complaining about). Again, I'm as big a Mark fan as there is but they added some serious whining as much as anyone did to that hard work he is talking about.
 

wi_racefan

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All they have left to do is whine these days. Back in Mark's day they could actually work to make themselves better. Now they issue parts and scan bodies. Just ask HMS how working on things turns out these days

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kkfan91

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I'm as big a Mark fan as there ever was.....but he and every other driver whined to the high heavens when they thought another make had the advantage. I DISTINCTLY remember him saying a car in motion, 5 mph vs 150 mph, had an advantage if it had more downforce or was less slippery (whatever the Fords were complaining about). Again, I'm as big a Mark fan as there is but they added some serious whining as much as anyone did to that hard work he is talking about.
Yeah I read what he said and thought Mark has some real rose colored glasses.
 

Formerjackman

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So what if the teams whined? It was all part of the entertainment. I'd go back to those days in a heartbeat over what we have now, where you have to employ a room full of engineers to gain a third of a tenth of a second, and you get sent to NASCAR jail for sanding on a hood Louvre.
 

Ford 222

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So what if the teams whined? It was all part of the entertainment. I'd go back to those days in a heartbeat over what we have now, where you have to employ a room full of engineers to gain a third of a tenth of a second, and you get sent to NASCAR jail for sanding on a hood Louvre.
I would, but I wouldn't. NASCAR's handling of the initial return of the Monte Carlo in 95 or whenever was all I needed to see the favoritism NASCAR exhibited for GM. Ford had to fit all the factory templates but the Monte Carlo could get by with all but 2. :rolleyes:
 

DanicaFreak

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I would, but I wouldn't. NASCAR's handling of the initial return of the Monte Carlo in 95 or whenever was all I needed to see the favoritism NASCAR exhibited for GM. Ford had to fit all the factory templates but the Monte Carlo could get by with all but 2. :rolleyes:
I could say the same of Pontiac. I was a HUGE KP fan and I hated that chev and ford got all the concessions. Thats ok it made Dover more enjoyable
 

Ford 222

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I could say the same of Pontiac. I was a HUGE KP fan and I hated that chev and ford got all the concessions. Thats ok it made Dover more enjoyable
They whined the loudest....Pontiac, Olds, and Buick you never heard a peep from when they were in Nascar and before GM decided they could cheat with one make better than 4.
 

Formerjackman

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I would, but I wouldn't. NASCAR's handling of the initial return of the Monte Carlo in 95 or whenever was all I needed to see the favoritism NASCAR exhibited for GM. Ford had to fit all the factory templates but the Monte Carlo could get by with all but 2. :rolleyes:

Well, the problem is that that was getting into of an era where the various make cars started to become VERY different in size, at the same time aerodynamics driven by engineers and wind tunnel time became ultra important. If the Monte Carlo had to fit all the stock templates, it probably would have been ultra dominant or ultra noncompetitive. The Ford guys can't bitch too much, NASCAR let them turn a four door car into a two door car.
 

Ford 222

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Well, the problem is that that was getting into of an era where the various make cars started to become VERY different in size, at the same time aerodynamics driven by engineers and wind tunnel time became ultra important. If the Monte Carlo had to fit all the stock templates, it probably would have been ultra dominant or ultra noncompetitive. The Ford guys can't bitch too much, NASCAR let them turn a four door car into a two door car.
Not until after the Monte Carlo debacle. And exactly right, the stock MC rear end was too narrow to put a spoiler on so they allowed concessions to widen it for the race car. So Chevy designed a car to compete with the Thunderbird that couldn't fit the templates or it would have been super non competitive. And Nascar allowed it. As usual.

But if you want to go there, Nascar allowed a RWD 8 cylinder car into a FWD 6 cyl car (Lumina). And of course that concession was WAY before all mentioned so far.
 

Greg

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I loved how the sheet metal at least looked more representative back in the day. But all the groping and complaining did not originate with the internet.
It has always been a part of racing.
 

Greg

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I think those years in the late 70s to mid 80s running against Senneker, Trickle, Eddy and many other great drivers is what made the kid so great himself and ready to take on Nascar. That was some of the best short track competition in the world.

Note: I am sure somebody will post a counterpoint about his 1982 failed attempt in the Cup series. But I stand by my comments above, he just needed to get a little more resources then he had at the time.

Once he started driving for Jack Roush in the Busch Series he was already a seasoned veteran with all the needed skills, good enough to be the driver for him in Cup. I think he was perfect for what Roush needed for a sucessful start up.
 

The Nature Boy

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Yeah I read what he said and thought Mark has some real rose colored glasses.

I remember weekly adjustments to the templates. We would get one change and then another manufacturer would complain and then another small adjustment would be made. Rinse and repeat ad nausem.

I like Mark but I don’t think he remember the same 90s NASCAR that I do.
 

28car

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I want to think it was the Penske shop that came up with the super bird that came toward the end of the thunderbird
“there is a video somewhere”
it was way faster than the thunderbird
they had to talk ford into making 500 of them
then nascar got involved
then ford said we’re gonna run the 4 door Taurus
 

Ford 222

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I want to think it was the Penske shop that came up with the super bird that came toward the end of the thunderbird
“there is a video somewhere”
it was way faster than the thunderbird
they had to talk ford into making 500 of them
then nascar got involved
then ford said we’re gonna run the 4 door Taurus
Roush I think came up with the “raked” Thunderbird about the time Mark went on his 6 or 7 race win spree (Cup and Busch series). Mark said it had a banana shape to it. And the last time NASCAR enforced the 500 unit sales was for Chevy to run its “aero” Monte Carlo to compete with the Thunderbird at the big tracks. Those cars are kinda valuable these days as a monument to GM’s whining….lol
 
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