NASCAR HAS DONE IT AGAIN.

dirtguru said:
Daytona has always drawn alot of hype from the media, that's because it's the Super Bowl of racing. Janet Guthrie drew alot of media attention when she ran in the Daytona 500. I don't think it was Nascar's intention she win the pole, all 3 of the Stewart -Hauss cars were fast, I think she just hit the right line and other factors such as wind were with her. But making the pole dosen't always mean you can make 500 miles and win the race. I think if she could pull off a win or a top 5 then she would silence the skeptics. But I don't think the odds are on her to do so.
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Nah. C'mon, you know the critics and haters will always be critics and haters. If she wins, you know damn good and well that cries of "it's all fixed" will be just as loud as the are now.
 
Shobud1 said:
Nascar has many meetings with drivers and crew. The drivers and crew plus owners make a big salary, big enough to do most anything to keep that check rolling in. Nascar is in trouble with fan participation, all drivers love their job and check, at meeting it was announced that we Nascar has to do something to gain support, (Look fellows we need to get a girl (Patrick)on the pole this week so we can draw attention to the public). How many drivers would say hell no I'm not gonna go along with that....none.....Take notice to all the attention Patrick has had since the pole, CBS, NBC, FOX, ESPN, MSNBC, CNBC, Speed channel ONE HOUR SPECIAL POLE SHOW, talk shows, etc. .........Nascar wigs are desperate.
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Shobud1, when I first started reading this thread I thought you were trolling or just kidding, but now that I have read a few of your posts I have come to realize that in your mind you really do believe this. I have been making my living in racing for a long time and I don't care if it's Nascar, Nhra, Indycar, World Of Outlaws or the National Checker Championships...there is no way that any organization is going to talk all the teams into taking a dive for any amount of money. But I will say that you do have a pretty good imagination.:)
 
Shobud1 said:
Brian and Mike made sure they got a female driver on the pole so all important networks would pounce on the news. A fast car with hands on the time clock will win the pole every time. Nascar has made many bloopers and blunders in the past and this is another, it will only last thru the first race and then the fans will realize it was only a fluke made possible by controlled efforts. Since Dodge is out until 2014, I'm taking a vacation from Nascar, I will watch a few laps but will not get involved like I did last year........Hope all you fans enjoy the fiction of racing........lol
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Do you really think that's the only clock in use? Crew chiefs don't just time their own teams, they time each other during both practice and qualifying. She was fast in testing several weeks ago, and fast in both practice sessions. The other teams knew that before Sunday. If you think 42 other CCs are looking at their stopwatches but keeping their mouths shut, then you probably will be happier watching something else.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Do you really think that's the only clock in use? Crew chiefs don't just time their own teams, they time each other during both practice and qualifying. She was fast in testing several weeks ago, and fast in both practice sessions. The other teams knew that before Sunday. If you think 42 other CCs are looking at their stopwatches but keeping their mouths shut, then you probably will be happier watching something else.
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I was thinking the same thing but you beat me to the punch.;)
 
Shobud1 said:
Brian and Mike made sure they got a female driver on the pole so all important networks would pounce on the news. A fast car with hands on the time clock will win the pole every time. Nascar has made many bloopers and blunders in the past and this is another, it will only last thru the first race and then the fans will realize it was only a fluke made possible by controlled efforts. Since Dodge is out until 2014, I'm taking a vacation from Nascar, I will watch a few laps but will not get involved like I did last year........Hope all you fans enjoy the fiction of racing........lol
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Have a good life and keep your head down...Brain may be coming after you :rolleyes:
 
Every sport has its conspiracy theorists i guess. But nascar fanbase has been going down for years. If they were going to start fixing things i would think they would have started long before now.
 
I really don't see why the regulars here feel the need to bash anyone that comes up with a theory behind danica's pole run. It makes total sense for NASCAR to fix this, given their massive decline in viewers/ratings. I mentioned the same thing in another thread, and I too was bashed beyond recognition for mentioning it. Yet on many other sites, people are wondering how her car managed to pull much harder than the rest on the backstretch.

Other "calls" include Junior Johnson's McDonald's sponsored car in 1994. McD was new to NASCAR and were tired of such mediocre mid-pack results with Jimmy Spencer behind the wheel. The team brought special intake mainfolds for the McD car to the summer Talladega and Daytona races and dominated, Spencer's only wins in the top series. This was written up in some book as well, and I read an account from one of the players on the team that the story was accurate, and even more could have been told. Johnson's team was penalized heavily for bringing the same intake to Daytona for the 500 a year or two later when McDonald's was out of the picture.

So, if it makes good business sense, NASCAR isn't above looking the other way for certain teams at certain times.
 
paradigm said:
I really don't see why the regulars here feel the need to bash anyone that comes up with a theory behind danica's pole run. It makes total sense for NASCAR to fix this, given their massive decline in viewers/ratings. I mentioned the same thing in another thread, and I too was bashed beyond recognition for mentioning it. Yet on many other sites, people are wondering how her car managed to pull much harder than the rest on the backstretch.


So, if it makes good business sense, NASCAR isn't above looking the other way for certain teams at certain times.
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Did nascar give the 10 team a message not to worry about tech that week? Maybe, and that's all it would take to 'fix' qualifying. Her car losing ground in the turn only to blow right by a driver like Tony was very odd indeed, but perhaps a strange rule change explains it. The old weight rule was based on a 200lb driver weight, and nascar would add enough to make lighter drivers 'weigh' 200lbs. nascar lowered that to 180lbs, which gives lighter drivers an advantage. Here's the strange part of the rule change. nascar basically changed the rule and will not adjust all the weight for a driver under 150lbs. Danica is probably under 100lbs, but nascar will treat her as if she weighed 150lbs and the maximum weight they will add is 30 lbs. Since Tony is probably 200lbs or more, Danica's car weighed 50, 60 or even 70lbs less. Does that explain the huge acceleration difference between the 2 cars? I don't know the math, but 50lbs is a lot when you consider these teams will spend $400 making something out of carbon fiber just to save 1 pound.

If all this is correct, I expect Danica to be much faster on the straights on all the fast tracks. She won't dominate because it will take time for her to learn setups and how to keep speed thru the turns, but it will help boost her finishing position.
 
paradigm said:
I really don't see why the regulars here feel the need to bash anyone that comes up with a theory behind danica's pole run. It makes total sense for NASCAR to fix this, given their massive decline in viewers/ratings. I mentioned the same thing in another thread, and I too was bashed beyond recognition for mentioning it. Yet on many other sites, people are wondering how her car managed to pull much harder than the rest on the backstretch.

Other "calls" include Junior Johnson's McDonald's sponsored car in 1994. McD was new to NASCAR and were tired of such mediocre mid-pack results with Jimmy Spencer behind the wheel. The team brought special intake mainfolds for the McD car to the summer Talladega and Daytona races and dominated, Spencer's only wins in the top series. This was written up in some book as well, and I read an account from one of the players on the team that the story was accurate, and even more could have been told. Johnson's team was penalized heavily for bringing the same intake to Daytona for the 500 a year or two later when McDonald's was out of the picture.

So, if it makes good business sense, NASCAR isn't above looking the other way for certain teams at certain times.
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I think if this was the case. Dale JR would win the pole all the damn time.

And no. It' not good business sense. Unless you think you can be that dam good at hiding things.
 
FenderBumper said:
Did nascar give the 10 team a message not to worry about tech that week? Maybe, and that's all it would take to 'fix' qualifying. Her car losing ground in the turn only to blow right by a driver like Tony was very odd indeed, but perhaps a strange rule change explains it. The old weight rule was based on a 200lb driver weight, and nascar would add enough to make lighter drivers 'weigh' 200lbs. nascar lowered that to 180lbs, which gives lighter drivers an advantage. Here's the strange part of the rule change. nascar basically changed the rule and will not adjust all the weight for a driver under 150lbs. Danica is probably under 100lbs, but nascar will treat her as if she weighed 150lbs and the maximum weight they will add is 30 lbs. Since Tony is probably 200lbs or more, Danica's car weighed 50, 60 or even 70lbs less. Does that explain the huge acceleration difference between the 2 cars? I don't know the math, but 50lbs is a lot when you consider these teams will spend $400 making something out of carbon fiber just to save 1 pound.

If all this is correct, I expect Danica to be much faster on the straights on all the fast tracks. She won't dominate because it will take time for her to learn setups and how to keep speed thru the turns, but it will help boost her finishing position.
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If this is happening, and exposed, would destroy much that NASCAR has worked for. All it would take is one guy going to Sporting News with a story that would be worth much more now than it would have been in 1994.

If this sport looks as fake as the WWF is, then Brian may have a problem.

Could you imagine the fallout of the NASCAR nation was brought to the light of "the fixed series"

I don't think Brian is this stupid. But, It is brian!
 
This conversation really is getting stupid. I like talking of black heelios and all, but look at the ghost cars of newmann and stewart, Gordon in Qualifying. The 10 wasn't cheating, unless they had a wind machine that hit the 24 square in the nose off turn 3
 
MOEJOE said:
This conversation really is getting stupid. I like talking of black heelios and all, but look at the ghost cars of newmann and stewart, Gordon in Qualifying. The 10 wasn't cheating, unless they had a wind machine that hit the 24 square in the nose off turn 3
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The ghost car is exactly what shows the 10 car had much more acceleration on the straights than the other HMS powered cars. Did the headwind stop for Danica? Could be. Was the clear weight advantage Danica has part of the reason? Absolutely, because a track with long straights is where it will provide the greatest advantage.

Lets all be honest here. nascar [and every other governing body] makes decisions based on providing a great show and attracting fans, not just on what conforms to purist racing standards. When Toyota came into the sport, they were allowed to build a racing block while Chevy, Ford and Dodge were made to wait 2 years. That was nascar giving the new guys a little helping hand. Along comes a 110 lb driver who provides a HUGE opportunity to boost the sports profile across all media, and nascar suddenly institutes a twist to the driver weight rule they've never had before. Another helping hand for the good of the sport? Who knows, but it certainly isn't below nascars standards to keep an eye on someone who can boost the sport when coming up with a good cut off number like 150lbs. They go thru all the trouble of equaling the cars out and having a system to virtually eliminate any driver weight advantage, then undermine that whole system and hand an advantage to any driver substantually under 150 lbs. What possible reason could they have for doing this? Are there ANY drivers substantually under 150 lbs?

Hmmm, let me think.....
 
FenderBumper said:
The ghost car is exactly what shows the 10 car had much more acceleration on the straights than the other HMS powered cars. Did the headwind stop for Danica? Could be. Was the clear weight advantage Danica has part of the reason? Absolutely, because a track with long straights is where it will provide the greatest advantage.

Lets all be honest here. nascar [and every other governing body] makes decisions based on providing a great show and attracting fans, not just on what conforms to purist racing standards. When Toyota came into the sport, they were allowed to build a racing block while Chevy, Ford and Dodge were made to wait 2 years. That was nascar giving the new guys a little helping hand. Along comes a 110 lb driver who provides a HUGE opportunity to boost the sports profile across all media, and nascar suddenly institutes a twist to the driver weight rule they've never had before. Another helping hand for the good of the sport? Who knows, but it certainly isn't below nascars standards to keep an eye on someone who can boost the sport when coming up with a good cut off number like 150lbs. They go thru all the trouble of equaling the cars out and having a system to virtually eliminate any driver weight advantage, then undermine that whole system and hand an advantage to any driver substantually under 150 lbs. What possible reason could they have for doing this? Are there ANY drivers substantually under 150 lbs?

Hmmm, let me think.....
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FB does your brain ever swell up and throb from thinking up all the long complicated trolling posts? Just asking. :p
 
Racing will always be a good sport to watch regardless if Nascar/Teams/Drivers/Crews/Owners/Sponsors CHEAT. Race fans are loyal and will keep watching. Nascar will do whatever it takes to gain attraction, publicity, RATINGS. Cheating has been a must do since it all started in 1949. Today it's a lot different because of computer, technology and experience. The number 10 had more speed because of Nascar's ability to let it happen to gain what I just mentioned. First female on pole is a big draw regardless what she does in the actual race/ races. They did it, it's done and the word is out and Nascar has done what it set out to do. RATINGS were dropping like bird **** on your new red car. RATINGS will increase at least for a few races and Nascar will be happy until the next FIX is needed. Hendrick, General Motors has the longest arm in this matter and has had since at least 2001 and before that but it was different, THEY HAD EARNHARDT SR.) There are many things to explain here but I don't intend to sit and type or look up stuff that you should already know. I've been involved in Nascar since 1969.
 
Johali said:
FB does your brain ever swell up and throb from thinking up all the long complicated trolling posts? Just asking. :p
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Sorry to let you down, but this one is totally serious. For years nascar added as much as 50 lbs to get 'driver weight' as close to 200lbs as possible. Instead of simply saying they will now limit added weight to 30 lbs, they lower the 'standard driver weight' to 180, and then say they will consider any driver who weighs less than 150 as being 150 when calculating weight to add. This is a very convoluted way of saying the max weight they will add is 30 lbs, which would have raised questions.

I'm going to try and get some reporters to ask nascar their logic behind these rules changes. Maybe there is a valid reason for doing this. If so, I sure would like to hear it.
 
Of course I can't find the link but I read yesterday the car has to weigh a minimum of 3400 pounds ready to race. With the driver in the seat 3600 pounds. So any driver under 200 pounds, that's all of them except Tony:), get to add weight, low and on the left side. Yes? No?
 
Conspiricy theorists will always look for the conspiracy. But there is no way that in today's world of instant communication and a willingness to pay for "inside information" that there would be enough money to convince everyone who was aware of some conspiracy to remain silent.

Just look at how many people would have had to have been aware of any such favoritism shown to any racer.

First are NASCAR officials who would have to make the decision to allow for a "rigged" inspection of any given car. Then there are the inspectors themselves who would have to have been alerted to "the plan" in order to allow an illegal car to pass inspection. Then there is the engine builder who installed the so-called illegal intake manifold (or whatever components) as well as the team of engineers who do the dyno testing of every engine after it's assembled. Then there are the people who work in the engine shops who would have to tag a specific engine for a specific car in order to assure that "the plan" was executed properly. Then there is the crew chief of the "offending car" who would have to be in the know. Then there is the team owner (in this case, Tony Stewart) who would certainly be aware that the "fix was in". Then there is the driver him/her self who would most likely be made aware of any favoritism.

I don't see how something like this could be kept on the down-low.

In contrast, when the MWR cars were found to have an illegal fuel additive, that was probably the work of 2 or 3 people in the team's organization. But I find it hard to imagine that Mikey was not advised...

Cheating has always been a part of the sport - but conspiracies like the one being offerd up here by Showbud1 can be quite hard to accept. Too many people would have to be involved.

It's like the people who say that the Moon landing was not real. At least one of the thousands of folks who would have been involved in that hoax would have spoken up about it if it were true.

Shobud1 said:
I've been involved in Nascar since 1969.
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Involved? In what capacity?
 
Will lighter weight help Danica Patrick at Daytona?


DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. -- Sometimes it pays to be a lightweight.


That doesn't mean, however, that a 40-pound weight advantage will help Danica Patrick significantly at Daytona International Speedway.

Yes, a lighter car is generally viewed as a better car. And, yes, the total weight of Patrick plus her race car is 40 pounds lighter than it is for almost every other driver in the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series.

Why? Because, for practical purposes, the NASCAR rule book assumes that every driver weighs at least 140 pounds.

By rule, a Sprint Cup car must weigh 3,300 pounds. Where the weight of the driver is concerned, for every 10-pound increment below 180 pounds, 10 pounds of weight must be added to the car. So if a driver weighs between 170 and 179 pounds, the car must weigh 3,310 pounds to compensate.

For a driver who weighs between 160 and 169 pounds, 20 pounds are added; for a driver who weighs 150 to 159 pounds, the car must weigh 3,330 pounds; and, finally, for a driver between 140 and 149 pounds, the weight of the car must be increased to 3,340 pounds.


The Sprint Cup rule book does not address weights lower than 140 pounds. As a consequence, the combined weight of Patrick and her No. 10 Chevrolet SS represents a 40-pound advantage over almost every other driver/car combination in the field.

Why almost? Because Mark Martin, a 40-time winner in Cup racing, is listed at 125 pounds on Michael Waltrip Racing's web site.

The question of a weight advantage has never been raised in Martin's case. It became an issue when Patrick won the pole for the Daytona 500.

The truth is, however, that Daytona is a track where a lighter car/driver combination is of negligible benefit.

"Talent being equal, I'll take the less weight every day," said Andy Petree, former Cup crew chief and car owner and current ESPN analyst. "It's always an advantage. Now, how much? How much can you say and measure is difficult.

"I think at Daytona, you couldn't measure it, (because) it would be so small. It would make very, very little difference, especially qualifying."

The bottom line is that lighter weight hastens acceleration, but during qualifying and racing at restrictor-plate superspeedways, acceleration isn't the issue.

"Qualifying here is about terminal velocity," Petree said. "It's not about acceleration, because the car really doesn't accelerate while you're qualifying. It accelerates up to speed, and really what limits the speed is aerodynamics over horsepower.

"That's really what it is. The weight comes into play when you're accelerating, like at a Charlotte or Martinsville. Her car might get up to speed a little quicker, but once it gets there, it's not going to be any faster. I don't see that being an advantage (in the Daytona 500)."

Because the driver sits on the left side of the car, Petree believes the weight difference might have a measurable effect at a road course, which features right-hand as well as left-hand corners.

The weight that's added to the car to compensate for a lighter driver can also help lower the center of gravity, another potential benefit.

But driver Matt Kenseth doesn't think the weight advantage is a significant issue.

"I don't think it's a huge deal," Kenseth said, then added facetiously, "but, yes, if she keeps running that fast, then I think she should have to add a bunch of weight and mount it on the roof."
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Article link
 
FenderBumper said:
The ghost car is exactly what shows the 10 car had much more acceleration on the straights than the other HMS powered cars. Did the headwind stop for Danica? Could be. Was the clear weight advantage Danica has part of the reason? Absolutely, because a track with long straights is where it will provide the greatest advantage.
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The wind changed man. Danica got the best of it. Gordon got the worst. Plain and simple.

Or HMS put an experimental engine that works in her car.

I can appreciate the few pounds comments. They are well thought out and do bear some theory fruit.

But after watching the ghost footage, the wind changed a few degrees, and that is the reason.

But the horsepower to weight thing, I remember some guys talking snowmobiles, and in that situation, 7 pounds = 1 horse power.
 
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