Nascar Screwed Kevin Out Of Another Win.

2 Sweet said:
"The Closer" couldn't close. Simple as that. Quit making excuses for your boy's shortcomings. He choked in the clutch. It's not Nascar's fault that Harvick can't seal the deal.
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Choke is a stretch when he didn't have the best car by far yesterday. If he would have won yesterday it would have been because he was out front at the right time, not because he was the best out there.
 
Jeffrey00 said:
Choke is a stretch when he didn't have the best car by far yesterday. If he would have won yesterday it would have been because he was out front at the right time, not because he was the best out there.
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But the OP states that Harvick was pulling away until the big bad yellow sabotaged him
 
2 Sweet said:
But the OP states that Harvick was pulling away until the big bad yellow sabotaged him
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I will admit that Harvick was doing a good job of staying in front of Johnson towards the end. I suspect that has more to do with having the lead, and Johnson using up his stuff to get to 2nd. Whether or not Harvick would have kept it for those last 30 laps, I don't know maybe. However once they were on fresher tires, it was very apparent Johnson had the best car.
 
29-4 said:
I didn't watch, was there debris shown or not? If it was not, what gives any of you any faith that there actually was debris? Genuinely curious, if NASCAR is still regularly using fake cautions along with the planned fake cautions, this is doubly terrible.
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They did'n show anything.
 
Pulling away in reality was stretching a 2 tenth lead to 0.75. Who knows what would have happened we aren't talking seconds.

Regardless, there should never be a surprise over a late debris caution. It's nascars final stage that they have yet to formally name.
 
Wrangler1 said:
Pulling away in reality was stretching a 2 tenth lead to 0.75. Who knows what would have happened we aren't talking seconds.

Regardless, there should never be a surprise over a late debris caution. It's nascars final stage that they have yet to formally name.
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Being a Harvick fan it was a little discouraging. Cost Harvick the win? Nah, I think Johson would have won either way, but it did probably cost him a 2nd. I dont' think NASCAR is out to get Harvick, but I do think they were trigger happy with the yellow yesterday. Again, not to cost Harvick a win, but probably to spice up the race a bit. They were pulling out the yellows for anything all day yesterday. In all honesty I just think it was more for creating 2 wide racing on a 1 groove race track more than it was because they didn't like who was out front.
 
Jeffrey00 said:
Being a Harvick fan it was a little discouraging. Cost Harvick the win? Nah, I think Johson would have won either way, but it did probably cost him a 2nd. I dont' think NASCAR is out to get Harvick, but I do think they were trigger happy with the yellow yesterday. Again, not to cost Harvick a win, but probably to spice up the race a bit. They were pulling out the yellows for anything all day yesterday. In all honesty I just think it was more for creating 2 wide racing on a 1 groove race track more than it was because they didn't like who was out front.
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It has been a common practice for Brian France's tenure and growing. It directly impacts how races play out - I will never forget Homestead 2015 when Larson was scrubbing the wall and running down the leaders... what would have been exciting finish was spoiled due to a debris caution.

I can live with the chase(s) and points formats because each individual race was for the most part the same... even the stages aren't bad. But race after race and late debris caution after another has proven to me at least that this is something NASCAR wants in their toolbox.
 
Wrangler1 said:
It has been a common practice for Brian France's tenure and growing. It directly impacts how races play out - I will never forget Homestead 2015 when Larson was scrubbing the wall and running down the leaders... what would have been exciting finish was spoiled due to a debris caution.
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#NeverForget
 
One thing I noticed is that Nascar isn't enforcing the single file rule on pit road next to the grass very much. Time for some of them to be held a lap.
 
Jeffrey00 said:
Being a Harvick fan it was a little discouraging. Cost Harvick the win? Nah, I think Johson would have won either way, but it did probably cost him a 2nd. I dont' think NASCAR is out to get Harvick, but I do think they were trigger happy with the yellow yesterday. Again, not to cost Harvick a win, but probably to spice up the race a bit. They were pulling out the yellows for anything all day yesterday. In all honesty I just think it was more for creating 2 wide racing on a 1 groove race track more than it was because they didn't like who was out front.
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This reinforces my decision to give up on NASCAR. I couldn't abide the ridiculous planned fake cautions, but one bright spot was the reduction in unplanned fake cautions. If they are going to have the segments and that, the sport is really devolving to WWE-status. I'm two weeks from watching, and haven't missed it much....
 
Wrangler1 said:
It has been a common practice for Brian France's tenure and growing. It directly impacts how races play out - I will never forget Homestead 2015 when Larson was scrubbing the wall and running down the leaders... what would have been exciting finish was spoiled due to a debris caution.
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Larson most likely wins that race without the late BS caution. But NASCAR seems pretty intent on the notion that the Homestead winner must be one of the Championship Four, so throwing that caution increased the chances of that, and lo and behold Kyle Busch won.
 
FearThe4 said:
Kevin did a good job at taking Johnson's best shot and was pulling away from him when Nascar decided to throw one of their bull**** Debris caution.
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JJ had him. Kevin pulled away that one lqp because Chad said Nascar is eyeing debris.

That caution was the best thing for Harvick. He got beat by Jimmie..like he always does
 
If anyone else saw the laptimes (i use raceview the entire race), Johnson had the best car. He just wasnt being hyped by the announcers like Larson was.

I even posted about it in the race thread before the first segment was over, that on the stop watch, 48 was as fast as the 42, and a half tenth faster in clean air. They made an adjustment in the final segment amd he had 3 tenths on anyone. Drove around blaney, and drove by the 42 and gapped them by 4 seconds. He was a solid 2 mph faster in 3&4 than anyone else.

It was just a typical 48 kind of race..hes won enough of them..we all know when a race has that feel. JJ beat our favorite drivers and that's it. Move along
 
There were 35 laps to go and I'm not at all convinced they had a piece that could really hold those guys off yesterday. Not gonna put this one on NASCAR, although the number of debris cautions yesterday in general was concerning.
 
So is no longer fearthe4, more like pitythe4?

No dog in this fight but if someone is going to cry foul here I think a case could be made for Blaney instead.
 
jaqua19 said:
If anyone else saw the laptimes (i use raceview the entire race), Johnson had the best car. He just wasnt being hyped by the announcers like Larson was.

I even posted about it in the race thread before the first segment was over, that on the stop watch, 48 was as fast as the 42, and a half tenth faster in clean air. They made an adjustment in the final segment amd he had 3 tenths on anyone. Drove around blaney, and drove by the 42 and gapped them by 4 seconds. He was a solid 2 mph faster in 3&4 than anyone else.

It was just a typical 48 kind of race..hes won enough of them..we all know when a race has that feel. JJ beat our favorite drivers and that's it. Move along
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i use raceview also and agree with you, also the longer the run Jimmies car became better than Larsons.
 
jaqua19 said:
JJ had him. Kevin pulled away that one lqp because Chad said Nascar is eyeing debris.

That caution was the best thing for Harvick. He got beat by Jimmie..like he always does
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FLRacingFan said:
There were 35 laps to go and I'm not at all convinced they had a piece that could really hold those guys off yesterday. Not gonna put this one on NASCAR, although the number of debris cautions yesterday in general was concerning.
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I agree with both these posts. It makes no sense for Nascar to throw a fake caution at that point, to interrupt an exciting duel for the lead between two of the more popular drivers in the sport. I am certain that Nascar has in the past used the caution flag to "spice up the show," but there is not a history of doing that to halt an exciting race. My opinion is that Nascar has not abused the yellow flag this year. I hope that continues.
 
jaqua19 said:
This this!!!!!! 11 years strong
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When I first got it they didn't call it Raceview and it was just a track in the center with numbers going around. Sorta like the small track on the bottom left of the Raceview page now.
 
IMO NASCAR cant actually screw someone out of a win.. Unless they give them a false penalty. Which doesnt happen.. No matter if a (I believe there are never any) fake caution is thrown the car in front still has the advantage.. Cant blame your hurt for an inferior pit stop for ur guy on NASCAR.
 
NASCAR-Debris-Cautions-Chart-4.jpg
 
Wrangler1 said:
NASCAR-Debris-Cautions-Chart-4.jpg
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When I look at that chart you posted, the thing that stands out to me is the dramatic increase seems to coincide with NASCAR's safety concerns. The death of two rising stars in the sport closely followed by the death of the biggest name in the sport and most popular driver immediately proceeded NASCAR's safety push. I know that every single time a debris caution is thrown, regardless of if the debris are shown, it's suspect. Just pointing out what I see when I look at that chart. Read into it whatever you want.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
When I look at that chart you posted, the thing that stands out to me is the dramatic increase seems to coincide with NASCAR's safety concerns. The death of two rising stars in the sport closely followed by the death of the biggest name in the sport and most popular driver immediately proceeded NASCAR's safety push. I know that every single time a debris caution is thrown, regardless of if the debris are shown, it's suspect. Just pointing out what I see when I look at that chart. Read into it whatever you want.
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Is it possible the cars are also more fragile, shedding more parts after damage than before the early '00s? -IF- that's the case, the new repair rule should result in fewer debris cautions.

For what it's worth, racing back to the caution was dropped in 2003 in favor of the 'Lucky Dawg'. That's also when lap-down cars were moved from the inside lane on restarts to behind the lead-lap cars.
 
29-4 said:
This reinforces my decision to give up on NASCAR. I couldn't abide the ridiculous planned fake cautions, but one bright spot was the reduction in unplanned fake cautions. If they are going to have the segments and that, the sport is really devolving to WWE-status. I'm two weeks from watching, and haven't missed it much....
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I consider the stages a compromise.... before Sunday, there hadn't been any debris yellows this year afaik. Sunday's race was kind of weird.


The racing has been great. You've been missing out.
 
DUN24 said:
I consider the stages a compromise.... before Sunday, there hadn't been any debris yellows this year afaik. Sunday's race was kind of weird.


The racing has been great. You've been missing out.
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2 before Sunday. 4 this past Sunday.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I sure wouldn't have know without looking it up. :D
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I wouldn't have thought there would be a week-by-week log of the number of debris cautions, other than Jayski's race summary and commercial breakdowns... Interesting stuff
 
DUN24 said:
I wouldn't have thought there would be a week-by-week log of the number of debris cautions, other than Jayski's race summary and commercial breakdowns... Interesting stuff
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If you've never checked out the link I posted above, it's worth the click. You may be amazed at what is kept track of.
 
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