Nascar should listen

Brian France 'thoughts' on this article: This obviously speaks to the need for caution clocks.
 
Everyone has reasons for Nascar's flagging fortunes but very little to offer in terms of tangible ways to increase popularity. IMO if Nascar could revert back to rules in place 30 years ago and it would not add one fan to the stands nor would it add to TV viewers or those looking in on tablets and computers. I don't think the average millennial would be anymore interested in Nascar if they did away with the Chase or lucky dogs and the old guard that chose to leave is gone for good.

If a person were to ask me what I thought Nascar would look like in 10 years I would say just look at where American open wheel racing is today. There are still races and there are still fans but the series exists on a much smaller scale. Both Nascar and CART/Tony George have done things to accelerate the lack of interest in American auto racing but the decline was inevitable. When I was a kid racing and cars were focal points of our formative years but not so now. I was at a car show last night and it was like looking into the mirror as everyone was an old fart and the only young people in attendance were grandchildren who had no choice but to attend.

It is hard for me to wrap my head around young boys not being interested in racing, cars, driving and getting a license as those things were as natural to me as drooling over Raquel Welch. But times and taste change and apparently young people just aren't keen watching cars go counterclockwise.
 
I think that people need to remember that Nascar took a big leap in viewership and it was kind of the popular sport for quite a while. In many ways I think the sport is doing like the stock market does sometimes and goes back to what it should be.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Everyone has reasons for Nascar's flagging fortunes but very little to offer in terms of tangible ways to increase popularity. IMO if Nascar could revert back to rules in place 30 years ago and it would not add one fan to the stands nor would it add to TV viewers or those looking in on tablets and computers. I don't think the average millennial would be anymore interested in Nascar if they did away with the Chase or lucky dogs and the old guard that chose to leave is gone for good.

If a person were to ask me what I thought Nascar would look like in 10 years I would say just look at where American open wheel racing is today. There are still races and there are still fans but the series exists on a much smaller scale. Both Nascar and CART/Tony George have done things to accelerate the lack of interest in American auto racing but the decline was inevitable. When I was a kid racing and cars were focal points of our formative years but not so now. I was at a car show last night and it was like looking into the mirror as everyone was an old fart and the only young people in attendance were grandchildren who had no choice but to attend.

It is hard for me to wrap my head around young boys not being interested in racing, cars, driving and getting a license as those things were as natural to me as drooling over Raquel Welch. But times and taste change and apparently young people just aren't keen watching cars go counterclockwise.
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We usually agree, but I kinda disagree here. I don't think it's too late. If Brian France had a revelation one day, or (Lord willing) resigned his position, there are many fans who would come back imo. Even if it was as simple as the Chase going away, I bet a lot of fans would come back into the fold.
 
Acs said:
It's kinda hard to bring back lost fans when they're dead.
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Not all the lost fans were 70 years old. The reason advertisers target young people is that those are the people most likely to change brands. I'd be willing to bet that the lost fans over the past decade skew younger than the fans that skew old. I'm quite disillusioned (even left for a year), and I'm only 30. The worst part about Brian's rapid destruction of the sport is you don't even have to be old to yearn for the "good ole days" because they only ended in ~2004.
 
29-4 said:
Even if it was as simple as the Chase going away, I bet a lot of fans would come back into the fold.
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Be careful what you wish for. Points racing with Nascar's flat points scale (by far the flattest of any major racing series on the planet) can be very boring and unrewarding. It's not a good way to crown a champion IMO.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Be careful what you wish for. Points racing with Nascar's flat points scale (by far the flattest of any major racing series on the planet) can be very boring and unrewarding. It's not a good way to crown a champion IMO.
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In a hypothetical return to a full-season championship, I'd be fine with bigger bonuses for winning. I think if BF had simply changed that after Kenseth's snoozer of a championship, there would have been far less consternation.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Be careful what you wish for. Points racing with Nascar's flat points scale (by far the flattest of any major racing series on the planet) can be very boring and unrewarding. It's not a good way to crown a champion IMO.
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NASCAR with the old points scale, pre Chase era, was just fine by me. Never needed to be changed to begin with. They had it right for a long, long time. Though it will never happen, a step back in time of this points system would be fine by me.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Be careful what you wish for. Points racing with Nascar's flat points scale (by far the flattest of any major racing series on the planet) can be very boring and unrewarding. It's not a good way to crown a champion IMO.
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I was happy with the 2011-2013 chase format. If we had to go back to anything, that's what I'd pick.
 
Sprint wanted to create interest and keep viewers' from switching over to the NHL games in the fall and the Chase was born.
Nascar panicked following Sr's death and the COT was born.
Boys have at it. WTF so how far can you ''have it'' before the line is crossed? Who determines the line?
The only thing consistent in nascar is the inconsistency. Today it's legal, next week it'll be changed
 
Bobw said:
Sprint wanted to create interest and keep viewers' from switching over to the NHL games in the fall and the Chase was born.
Nascar panicked following Sr's death and the COT was born.
Boys have at it. WTF so how far can you ''have it'' before the line is crossed? Who determines the line?
The only thing consistent in nascar is the inconsistency. Today it's legal, next week it'll be changed
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Well said Bob
 
The current championship has cheapened the title so much it has no meaning anymore.
Changing racing to look like ball sports is the real reason fans are leaving. Also take a look at the three top men under France, all yes men. Not a good thought among them and the fact that they were replaced by new Yes Men means there are no changes coming except the usual reaction type with no real thought.
Example #1 Caution Clocks. Nascar's answer to 1/2 time. BS.
 
Zero consequence racing.

A bad finish was a big deal before the Chase. It doesn't matter now. There's no risk. No pressure. Miss 11 races? No biggie. Not very exciting when the first 26 races of the season are meaningless. 16 people make the Chase, that's almost half the field.
 
What half do you want your team in?
Remember purses are paid for finishing position.
 
The lucky dog is not bad at all. I'm sure if the chase was removed viewership would increase by a few tenths and attendeence would increase by 20,000 or so. March needs to match October in importance!
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
but the decline was inevitable. When I was a kid racing and cars were focal points of our formative years but not so now. I was at a car show last night and it was like looking into the mirror as everyone was an old fart and the only young people in attendance were grandchildren who had no choice but to attend.
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Talking big picture here, automobiles are in decline. We are entering an age of driverless vehicles and fewer people using them at all. I think in my lifetime other than very remote and agricultural areas, all commerce will be done on line and people will walk everywhere. A muscle car of yore will soon be akin to a steam locomotive.

Today I came from a family vacation at the NJ shore. I have the weekend off and I was in no rush but I sat in the backlog of two accidents on the way home today and it struck me that nobody knows how to drive anymore. They are not taught how to drive. There are many societal reasons for this and I don't want to get into the politics of it but the age of the car is coming to an abrupt ending, far faster than my man Skoal and I would care to admit. Enjoy it while you can. I would guess in 20 years there will be no equivalent to the 2016 Cup level. It will be a boutique event, such as so few people alive who know how to skillfully operate an automobile, it will be akin to horse racing today. Few people know how to ride a horse or are brave enough to get on one in their pajamas at 40MPH in 2016. Car racing is headed in the same direction. Local dirt tracks and 3 big "cup" level races a year. A triple-crown sort of award will be a huge accomplishment.
 
Bob said:
Talking big picture here, automobiles are in decline. We are entering an age of driverless vehicles and fewer people using them at all. I think in my lifetime other than very remote and agricultural areas, all commerce will be done on line and people will walk everywhere. A muscle car of yore will soon be akin to a steam locomotive.

Today I came from a family vacation at the NJ shore. I have the weekend off and I was in no rush but I sat in the backlog of two accidents on the way home today and it struck me that nobody knows how to drive anymore. They are not taught how to drive. There are many societal reasons for this and I don't want to get into the politics of it but the age of the car is coming to an abrupt ending, far faster than my man Skoal and I would care to admit. Enjoy it while you can. I would guess in 20 years there will be no equivalent to the 2016 Cup level. It will be a boutique event, such as so few people alive who know how to skillfully operate an automobile, it will be akin to horse racing today. Few people know how to ride a horse or are brave enough to get on one in their pajamas at 40MPH in 2016. Car racing is headed in the same direction. Local dirt tracks and 3 big "cup" level races a year. A triple-crown sort of award will be a huge accomplishment.
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Now this 'doom and gloom' I do buy into more. I've worried about the implications for racing since the very first time I heard about self driving cars. Horse racing has survived because it is somewhat glamourous. The heart of racing (at least NASCAR) is that we can relate to the desire to take your family sedan and exceed the speed limit to the point of danger. If no one can relate to that--and we are at most a generation from this reality--people racing cars will be seen as a quaint remnant of the past.
 
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29-4 said:
Horse racing has survived because it is somewhat glamourous.
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To a degree, but horse racing goes on every day in this country at tracks most people never heard of and the reason is gambling.
 
I still think the loss of the 80's and 90's generation of drivers from 2000-2010 was a huge blow. It's not easy to follow another driver with the same passion and interest. Especially if that particular driver is the reason you started watching the sport. The rivalries among fans back in the day was great.
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
I still think the loss of the 80's and 90's generation of drivers from 2000-2010 was a huge blow. It's not easy to follow another driver with the same passion and interest. Especially if that particular driver is the reason you started watching the sport. The rivalries among fans back in the day was great.
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Thats a valid point, but thats one of those things that can not be avoided and has no blame, as its just a part of life.
 
Bob said:
I have the weekend off and I was in no rush but I sat in the backlog of two accidents on the way home today and it struck me that nobody knows how to drive anymore.
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People know how to drive. They don't know how to drive, text, email, surf the 'net or yap on their smart phone at the same time.
I'd like to see a device that cuts out the ignition if a cell phone is on inside the car.
 
29-4 said:
We usually agree, but I kinda disagree here. I don't think it's too late. If Brian France had a revelation one day, or (Lord willing) resigned his position, there are many fans who would come back imo. Even if it was as simple as the Chase going away, I bet a lot of fans would come back into the fold.
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I have heard this old war chant so many times before in different venues and nothing ever, ever, changes. People blame leadership, say they are going to leave and would come back if (insert name here) resigned. It simply doesn't happen that way. NASCAR gained popularity in the late '80's, thanks, in part, to Hal Needham and Burt Reynolds. It is like any other yuppie attraction, an attraction, a place where people could be seen and say they have been. The fad is fading. Not as much or change in rules as they have been doing that since the '60's, but from the "old timers" who remember the days of run what ya brung to what we have today. NASCAR will eventually be like open wheel. It will survive, the dynasty has shrunk, the fan base declined but NASCAR will still be here whether Brian France is CEO or someone else and it really won't matter. It is the way of evolution. The more things change the more they stay the same.
 
Bobw said:
People know how to drive. They don't know how to drive, text, email, surf the 'net or yap on their smart phone at the same time.
I'd like to see a device that cuts out the ignition if a cell phone is on inside the car.
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That was suggested at a safety meeting. If the law says you can't hold a phone and talk while driving, isn't the intent to stop people from driving and talking on the phone? Why are manufacturers allowed to install gimmicks to get around that? Make it mandatory that signals are blocked and IF someone finds away to get around it, fine them so heavy they won't be able to afford a phone.
On the other hand everyone is allowed to own a M16 to go with the phone.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
NASCAR with the old points scale, pre Chase era, was just fine by me. Never needed to be changed to begin with. They had it right for a long, long time. Though it will never happen, a step back in time of this points system would be fine by me.
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Too many times, the champion was crowned before the final race. When no one cared about the season finale, you have a problem. Take the 90-2003
1990, terrific finale, down to the wire.
1991, title sewn up as soon as engines fired in Atlanta.
1992, best title fight in NASCAR history, but also the lowest point total of the 80s and 90s
1993 title clinch early on in the finale
1994, title clinched two races early.
1995, I don't remember right off. I think it came down to the finale, but wasn't a nail biter.
1996, good title fight. Down to the wire.
1997, don't remember
1998, clinched early
1999 clinched early
2000 clinched early
2001 clinched early
2002 good fight
2003 clinched early

Five out of six years there was nothing to watch(for most fans). Four or five times in 14 seasons there was a truely exciting battle for the title. They had to do something. I'm not a big fan of the chase as a whole, but at least the finale has been exciting more often than not, in my opinion.
 
Bowtie3 said:
Five out of six years there was nothing to watch(for most fans). Four or five times in 14 seasons there was a truely exciting battle for the title. They had to do something. I'm not a big fan of the chase as a whole, but at least the finale has been exciting more often than not, in my opinion.
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"Nothing to watch." I don't watch racing for the championship primarily. If you look back at pre-Chase seasons, commentators weren't having a seizure describing 'points as they run' lap after lap. People can see through the artificial excitement the Chase brings, and the undeserving champions that have won titles because of it.
 
29-4 said:
"Nothing to watch." I don't watch racing for the championship primarily. If you look back at pre-Chase seasons, commentators weren't having a seizure describing 'points as they run' lap after lap. People can see through the artificial excitement the Chase brings, and the undeserving champions that have won titles because of it.
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Battling for the top prize in the series is excitment in my opinion, no matter the system. It is true excitement.

Personally, I watch races and sports in general for excitment. Even if it is "artificial " it still has me on the edge of my seat. If it doesn't have excitement, I have batteries in my remote.
 
The other thing that really lead to disinterest in my opinion , was the need for extra points for the winner . NASCAR caved to these newbie fans who believed that only the winner was actually racing and more points for winning would cause others to try too . Of course this was all horse crap ,there is still only one winner . But by NASCAR caving in and admitting that most of the 43 drivers weren't even trying , I think it cheapened the appeal of the sport . Newbie fans should understand that after this sport is long gone , racers will still be racing something.
 
Everything is great and Brian has things in control. The plaid looking seats camouflage things and create a full crowd look, and aside from a few trouble making zooming cameramen, there ain't no problem.

So the people can just relax cause, anything less than Nascar praise is a bitchin by the unfaithful.
Why cant we just talk about how the Frances did everything but invent racing, and how we all can be all in one accord if we just remember to always put Nascar first.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
decline was inevitable.
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No it wasn't--kind of. What has changed is that Dads are so freakin' busy trying to make mortgage in this day that they don't have the time to share their passions with their kids. It is all anybody can do to make ends meet. We have failed at passing on the love of the car to this generation, and it may never come back. Anytime something skips a generation, it's hard to get it back because it is replaced by something else. I am not any better than anybody else, but I can tell you this about my 18 year old: 1) He loves his 214,000 mile Toyota RAV4 which I bought when he was 3, 2) He loves NASCAR, and if he can't be on the couch watching it with me, he is texting his ass off to me during the race talking strategy, speed, etc. (he freaking kills the data plan every month watching remotely--and I am good with it), and 4) He will never, ever consider buying/driving anything other than a Toyota. I suspect that back in the day when the world wasn't spinning so quickly, tons of Chevy, Ford, and Dodge dads did the same thing. It will be a long, long road back.
 
29-4 said:
Not all the lost fans were 70 years old. The reason advertisers target young people is that those are the people most likely to change brands. I'd be willing to bet that the lost fans over the past decade skew younger than the fans that skew old. I'm quite disillusioned (even left for a year), and I'm only 30. The worst part about Brian's rapid destruction of the sport is you don't even have to be old to yearn for the "good ole days" because they only ended in ~2004.
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I'm 31 and until last year had been watching for as long as I can remember - since at least 1991 or 1992. I've tuned out and haven't looked back. The current Chase and NASCAR changing the cars unnecessarily last year were the death blow for me.
 
Bowtie3 said:
Too many times, the champion was crowned before the final race. When no one cared about the season finale, you have a problem. Take the 90-2003
1990, terrific finale, down to the wire.
1991, title sewn up as soon as engines fired in Atlanta.
1992, best title fight in NASCAR history, but also the lowest point total of the 80s and 90s
1993 title clinch early on in the finale
1994, title clinched two races early.
1995, I don't remember right off. I think it came down to the finale, but wasn't a nail biter.
1996, good title fight. Down to the wire.
1997, don't remember
1998, clinched early
1999 clinched early
2000 clinched early
2001 clinched early
2002 good fight
2003 clinched early

Five out of six years there was nothing to watch(for most fans). Four or five times in 14 seasons there was a truely exciting battle for the title. They had to do something. I'm not a big fan of the chase as a whole, but at least the finale has been exciting more often than not, in my opinion.
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Races back then were such an even on their own that they didn't need to have an ancillary attraction to get people to tune in. The fact that it was the last race of the season and Daytona was 3+ months away was enough to create a buzz.

A lot of the changes (chase, lucky dog, debris cautions, etc.) were a biproduct of the TV networks. When NASCAR signed the deal for the 2001 everything changed. Their say was only going to go so far. NASCAR was at its best when it valued being "The best spectator sport in America". Once France and Co. started to care more about putting on a show for TV the product declined.

Losing Winston was a huge blow too....
 
NASCAR wants to appear to be fan-centric. Problem is you will never please everyone with this approach. It is time for them to be more like the NFL in this respect. The NFL doesn't care what you think. Hell, they banned end zone celebrations--the equivalent of a burn out after a NASCAR win. The plus side of this approach is consistency in product. NASCAR has tried to please everybody and in so doing, pleased nobody. I might be a little different.....It is a car with wheels and a motor. I'm interested, and nobody can screw that up.
 
Mr. Gregory said:
I'm 31 and until last year had been watching for as long as I can remember - since at least 1991 or 1992. I've tuned out and haven't looked back. The current Chase and NASCAR changing the cars unnecessarily last year were the death blow for me.
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We're about the same age, I'm 33. My dad was a huge Elliott fan so every weekend it would be me him watching the races going back as far as I can remember. I can still remember bits and pieces Allison's crash at Talladega We lived in the Lehigh Valley of Pennsylvania so the Andretti's were known by everyone. Plus, Roger Penske went to Lehigh University like my old man. Generally speaking, auto racing was huge in that area despite being in "Yankee Land".

I've been close to 100 Cup races sine 1988 plus numerous Busch/Xfinity races. I'll be adding a new track next week when I head to Kentucky. Despite all the changes my father and I still have an interest in the sport. Not like it was when Elliott and Rusty were out there but more than enough to go to 2-3 races a year. But I can't fault anyone for the lost interest. The sport has not changed for the better over the last 10-15 years. I work in the golf industry so I'll watch the final round of a PGA tournament on Sunday as much, if not more, than the coinciding race. Once football season starts it's hit or miss what I catch. I'm just a huge sports fan in general....
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
We're about the same age, I'm 33. My dad was a huge Elliott fan so every weekend it would be me him watching the races going back as far as I can remember. I can still remember bits and pieces Allison's crash at Talladega We lived in the Lehigh Valley of Pennsylvania so the Andretti's were known by everyone. Plus, Roger Penske went to Lehigh University like my old man. Generally speaking, auto racing was huge in that area despite being in "Yankee Land".

I've been close to 100 Cup races sine 1988 plus numerous Busch/Xfinity races. I'll be adding a new track next week when I head to Kentucky. Despite all the changes my father and I still have an interest in the sport. Not like it was when Elliott and Rusty were out there but more than enough to go to 2-3 races a year. But I can't fault anyone for the lost interest. The sport has not changed for the better over the last 10-15 years. I work in the golf industry so I'll watch the final round of a PGA tournament on Sunday as much, if not more, than the coinciding race. Once football season starts it's hit or miss what I catch. I'm just a huge sports fan in general....
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Oh wow, I assumed you were older than that. That just proves @29-4's point even more. You don't have to be super old to appreciate how NASCAR used to be.

Yep, I used to watch the races with my dad too. I'm sure I was sitting there in front of the TV as a little baby watching it, but one of the earliest races I can actually remember seeing was The Winston in '92. I remember being so confused because Davey won the race but had wrecked afterwards. That was a lot for my feeble six-year-old brain to take in.



I've mentioned my dad several times before, but he was a Ford guy, so of course I was too. He passed back in January of 2011. He was getting disappointed with the way things were going even back then, but he would still watch.
 
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