NASCAR's attendance in decline
- Thread starter dpkimmel2001
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FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
I'm sure Brian is happy it's not a poor show causing much of this.
I would like to see the governing bodys revenue, but that isn't made public. Sprint, Sunoco and Goodyear pay the France family a ton each year, and I wonder if that remains constant throughout the term of the contracts.
I would like to see the governing bodys revenue, but that isn't made public. Sprint, Sunoco and Goodyear pay the France family a ton each year, and I wonder if that remains constant throughout the term of the contracts.
Matthew2470
It's not that serious
NASCAR hit a peak and it's dropped.
I wonder what the numbers are if compared to 10, 15 and 20 years ago.
I wonder what the numbers are if compared to 10, 15 and 20 years ago.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
nascar hit a peak, and the France family thought growth meant more seats at fewer tracks. 
Great article DP.
I most likely attend more races every year than the average fan and I have seen the decline. I never had trouble getting rid of my Bristol tickets until 2009 and I nearly ate them that year. I went to Bristol the next two years and I nearly cried when I saw those empty seats. I no ;onger have season tickets because I can buy them race by race as needed.
The decline in attendance at MIS has been a good thing for me. They opened up the seating to give those who attend more room and that is much appreciated. They actually did away with multiple bleachers between turn three and turn four. Additionally, with the numbers being down at MIS and Chicago it makes getting in and out of the track much quicker.
I wish I could cry about my revenue being down to 144 million a year.
I most likely attend more races every year than the average fan and I have seen the decline. I never had trouble getting rid of my Bristol tickets until 2009 and I nearly ate them that year. I went to Bristol the next two years and I nearly cried when I saw those empty seats. I no ;onger have season tickets because I can buy them race by race as needed.
The decline in attendance at MIS has been a good thing for me. They opened up the seating to give those who attend more room and that is much appreciated. They actually did away with multiple bleachers between turn three and turn four. Additionally, with the numbers being down at MIS and Chicago it makes getting in and out of the track much quicker.
I wish I could cry about my revenue being down to 144 million a year.
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Too damn big Too damn quick, most of us that have been around awhile saw it coming several years ago. Either of the Bills France would not have let this happen. Now I've gone and done it, the usual smarta$$es, Er, I mean super intellectuals on here will be all over this statement with comments about my ancestors being coneheads or something.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Well said. I would like to think that France jr would have seen the huge surge in popularity and expanded in to new markets by creating a 2nd Cup level series. More races, more tracks and 2 TV contracts. Instead, we got cloned tracks layed out for seating capacity and double dates for ISC and SMI.
MRM
Team Owner
Same here. Got to where I was losing big money on Bristol tickets to Nationwide races and the occasional Cup race I couldn't attend, so I dropped my season tickets as well.
The tracks need to realize they'll get more people in the stands if they'll lower the ticket prices. Bristol is the prime example of this. When the demand is no longer there, you have to lower prices. That's simple economics.
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
In 2008, I wasn't able to give away Richmond NNS tickets for free. This year, I couldn't even get rid of the best tickets money can by at Richmond for a fractio of the price.
People have less money to spend on non-essential items. Most can no longer afford plane fare, hotel accomodations, race tickets and food for a weekend at an away track.
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
And I'm going to say the same thing I've said for years:
The economy does not explain the decline in television ratings, especially when every other professional sport has seen an across the board ratings increase and, in some sports, across the board increases in attendance.
I'm sure the television ratings and the decrease in track attendance don't exactly mirror one another.
I bought 8 seats for Cali this year and everyone that I asked to go said they couldn't afford it so they all went anyway on my dime.
Vegas had more in attendance this year than the previous couple of years.
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
NASCAR’s racetrack companies largely blame the slowdown in consumer spending for the lack of sales. Admission revenues peaked between 2006 and 2008 and have fallen every year since. The companies say ticket sales will continue to struggle as long as the economy does.
“We think the pricing this year will stay consistent with last year,” SMI president Marcus Smith told Charlotte’s Sports Business Journal in May. “And we’ve held pricing firm for the last few years. We’ve done discounts for folks, the four-packs and the six-packs – maybe food and beverage is included in the ticket. It’s not the model that you would look to in the short term because it has resulted in some lower admission revenue. But it’s the right thing long term for our fan base because more and more fans are able to attend and continue their tradition.”
So, Bruton thinks it's the economy but he's not going to do what numerous other businesses have done which is slash pricing?
It's not the economy. The economy was a very timely scapegoat. I won't say that the economy has magnified the problem, but I wouldn't say it's all the economy either.
People around here could afford to go. A LOT of very wealthy one percenters around here. They don't go to the races anymore because they don't enjoy it.
“We think the pricing this year will stay consistent with last year,” SMI president Marcus Smith told Charlotte’s Sports Business Journal in May. “And we’ve held pricing firm for the last few years. We’ve done discounts for folks, the four-packs and the six-packs – maybe food and beverage is included in the ticket. It’s not the model that you would look to in the short term because it has resulted in some lower admission revenue. But it’s the right thing long term for our fan base because more and more fans are able to attend and continue their tradition.”
So, Bruton thinks it's the economy but he's not going to do what numerous other businesses have done which is slash pricing?
It's not the economy. The economy was a very timely scapegoat. I won't say that the economy has magnified the problem, but I wouldn't say it's all the economy either.
People around here could afford to go. A LOT of very wealthy one percenters around here. They don't go to the races anymore because they don't enjoy it.
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Five Flags Speedway is doing great for an out of the way local short track. The owners dont care about becoming gazillionairs or whatever. They just want to make a little money and have a good time racing. The Snowball Derby and related races draw the biggest names in short track racing and my favorite action of them banning KyBu for the entire series one year for cheating and watching him from ten feet away scream about rednecks and inbreeding and such and how dare them treat the great cup driver that way at this dump. Pretty funny stuff.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Damn johali, I would love to see a video of baby Kyle showing his tonsils to them rednecks.
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
And I'm saying that every other sport, even Major League Lacrosse, is seeing an increase in television ratings. Hell, more people shell out $40 to watch boring MMA than watch NASCAR on basic cable. That IS NOT the economy.
I know NASCAR and the media have their scapegoats: The economy, TNT, KFC commercials, Dale Jr not winning, Obama and whatever else they can come up with. But it's just scapegoats.
Bruton Smith even said the lack of cautions is killing the sport.
It's just hard for NASCAR and the media to admit that the product sucks. NASCAR and Bruton Smith decided to quit building quality racetracks that put on a race fans would pay to see and decided to build superspeedways that seat 150,000 people and, when the racing sucks, they'll add a flashy pre-race show or have some celebrity perform a concert. Or, when fans complain the product sucks, they come up with stupid ass gimmicks like green-white-checkered finishes, the Chase, Lucky Dog, double file restarts and even talk about mandatory competition cautions.
Bottom line: Almost every single track is the same. When there is a track with character (Bristol), the track is senselessly reconfigured so the product ends up being the exact same as every other track. NASCAR needs new markets at racetracks that are enjoyable. Iowa Speedway, Portland International Raceway, New Jersey Motorsports Park, Milwaukee Mile, Montreal, street races in New York City, Washington DC, Seattle, Denver and Houston would all be great places to start.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
"It's just hard for NASCAR and the media to admit that the product sucks"
Sadly, this is the case at way too many races lately.
Sadly, this is the case at way too many races lately.
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The pictures my wife took were ruined by people jostling around trying to give him the one digit salute. Everyone but him and his retinue of clones was laughing and having a heluva good time and I think that is what pi$$ed him off the most. DP could probably find a link to the story and to the one about Johanna Long beating all the boys in the Snowball Derby.
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
Just look at Jeff Gluck's article last week about how the races are unwatchable because of commercials.
Yes, the commercials on TNT were excessive and way way way overboard. But, that's not going to have fans turn off the race. Hell, as much bitching as I do about TNT's sorry ass coverage, I don't even turn off the race. The only time I don't watch NASCAR when I am home is when there's a football game to be watched. The other thing that's been said is that ratings are down because people DVR the races to skip commercials. The problem with that is that DVR data is included when the television ratings are published.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
While the economy doesn't have everything to do with the decline it most certainly has an impact on it. My family & I don't attend as many races as we used to. It has nothing to do with the on track product. For my family, it has absolutely everything to do with the economy. We simply can't afford to go to as many. It's not just the cost of the race and the surrounding costs associated with attending an event. It's every day life in general. Every day I am paying out more money for the things that I normally do. It cost me more to feed my family, drive to work, buy clothes, etc..... That all has an impact on my family's entertainment buck. We don't go to as many movies. We don't eat out as often. We don't make extra trips to the store. We don't go to as many races. On and on. Sure, they can lower the price of a ticket $20 and save me an extra $80 to attend an event. Is $80 going to do it for me? No, but if I were paying less for food and fuel and lodging associated then it would.
I used to be real concerned with the drop in viewership and the lack of attendance. It used to chap my a$$. Anymore, I don't really care as much. Heck, when we go to the races now I have less people to deal with and that's alright by me. More leg room. Shorter lines @ the concession stand. Egress is much easier. Heck, I feel like I am benefiting from it. I don't know why I've been concerned about what other people think of the sport when I should only be concerned with what I think.
I used to be real concerned with the drop in viewership and the lack of attendance. It used to chap my a$$. Anymore, I don't really care as much. Heck, when we go to the races now I have less people to deal with and that's alright by me. More leg room. Shorter lines @ the concession stand. Egress is much easier. Heck, I feel like I am benefiting from it. I don't know why I've been concerned about what other people think of the sport when I should only be concerned with what I think.
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I would rather attend a race than watch one on TV. I enjoy the camaraderie, the tailgaiting, the traveling, the racing, my scanner, the concession stands, access to NASCAR paraphernalia, etc. I will continue to go to as many races as time-off from work will permit.
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
I'm done with taking time off from work to go to races. I go to races almost every week. My next vacation will be for relaxation, but if there's a racetrack to go to, I may go.
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Division: Super Late Models
Car#: 10
Years In Racing: Since 8 years old
Car Owner: Donald Long
Racing Accomplishments: 2010-Snowball Derby Champion 2009-Blizzard Series Champion 2009-Sunoco Champion 2008-Five Flags Speedway PLM Champion and on and on.
Name: Johanna Long
Hometown: PensacolaCar#: 10
Years In Racing: Since 8 years old
Car Owner: Donald Long
Racing Accomplishments: 2010-Snowball Derby Champion 2009-Blizzard Series Champion 2009-Sunoco Champion 2008-Five Flags Speedway PLM Champion and on and on.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
I sure hope Johanna doesn't have a brother named Richard....or Bubba....or Shorty....
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FB I think you are what my mother always called a scoundrel and warned my sisters about.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
This is so true. The job situation dictates where money is spent. There just isn't a lot of discretionary income left after bills are paid and food is bought.
M
Mopardh9
Guest
I definetly think the price of gas has a major impact on it. Hell I used to drive to tracks 6 to 8 hours away even took a road trip to Bristol and Watkins Glen, but now ...no way. Prices are up, the racing excitement is on the decline and I wouldn't waste my money going to a Cup race these days.
Matthew2470
It's not that serious
Cost of gas and hotel keeps me from going to more races. I recently had to choose between Indy and Chicago because of it. Chicago won because of less heat and the track offers excellent viewing angles from every seat. Indy...not so much.
paradigm
Team Owner
The economy for sure is a major factor in lower attendance.
However with respect to lower TV ratings, people simply aren't interested in the current NASCAR. Most people I know watched up until Earnhardt passed away, and preferred the good ol' boys, no race for the chase, and the cars before the COT. The sport strayed quite far from its roots, and in turn has lost a lot of its core fans. Although it could be argued that if it had not made the changes, it may not have attracted as many new fans?
Additionally America's love affair with the automobile is dying. Kids these days are no longer into cars and look at them as appliances - this lack of interest will directly ripple through all forms of motorsports.
However with respect to lower TV ratings, people simply aren't interested in the current NASCAR. Most people I know watched up until Earnhardt passed away, and preferred the good ol' boys, no race for the chase, and the cars before the COT. The sport strayed quite far from its roots, and in turn has lost a lot of its core fans. Although it could be argued that if it had not made the changes, it may not have attracted as many new fans?
Additionally America's love affair with the automobile is dying. Kids these days are no longer into cars and look at them as appliances - this lack of interest will directly ripple through all forms of motorsports.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
Surely when people tout the attendance of other sports they realize that these sports are played before a primary home crowd? I'm in the Pittsburgh market. If I decide to go to a Steelers, Penguins, or Pirates game I simply get in my car and go. It's a little over an hour drive for me to attend any one of these events. I can leave two hours before the event starts and be home in time for a late dinner. About the only investment is the price of tickets/gas/parking. Not a huge investment overall. On the other hand when I go to the race it's a huge investment in diesel fuel/lodging (camping)/food/beer/beer. Yes, I put beer twice. I like beer. My only point is that it is with other sports the venue is filled with people mainly from the immediate area that have a much smaller investment than the average NASCAR fan. This makes comparing attendance figures between NASCAR and other sport moot IMO.
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
NASCAR turned away from their older fanbase but never attracted a younger fanbase. They thought young people would like the CoT because it had a goofy wing on it like all the ricer burners. They think young people will enjoy superspeedways because the cars run 200+ mph.
NASCAR might be more concerned with attendance right now, and might think it's wise to make facilities nicer instead of improve the racing, and that's fine. But they have a real rude awakening coming over the next few years when TV contract negotiations heat up. They're going to lose a lot of money in that.
S
SST55
Guest
Track attendance being down can be attributed to the costs associated of attending, the economy and unemployment. Responsible adults are keeping a roof over their families heads before going to the race track.
Now why is TV viewership down? Because the product they're sellin sux, that's why.
Mo, you said: "I definetly think the price of gas has a major impact on it."
Well it's 1207 miles one way from my house to Daytona DAMHIKT
1200 miles @ 20 mpg=60 gallons x $3.00 a gallon=$180
x $3.50 a gallon=$210
x $4.00 a gallon=$240
Now is $30 or even $60, actually $60 or $120 round trip going to stop me from going to Daytona? Nope.
I laugh, then feel sorry, when I see people on the news complain they can't go on vacation due to the price of gas.
Gas is the LEAST expensive part of a road trip. It's the lodging, food [especially at the track] and yes ticket prices. Oh and beer.
Now why is TV viewership down? Because the product they're sellin sux, that's why.
Mo, you said: "I definetly think the price of gas has a major impact on it."
Well it's 1207 miles one way from my house to Daytona DAMHIKT
1200 miles @ 20 mpg=60 gallons x $3.00 a gallon=$180
x $3.50 a gallon=$210
x $4.00 a gallon=$240
Now is $30 or even $60, actually $60 or $120 round trip going to stop me from going to Daytona? Nope.
I laugh, then feel sorry, when I see people on the news complain they can't go on vacation due to the price of gas.
Gas is the LEAST expensive part of a road trip. It's the lodging, food [especially at the track] and yes ticket prices. Oh and beer.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
Obviously not an RV'er or you may have a different view or be independently wealthy. Fuel is a huge concern of mine when traveling.Now is $30 or even $60, actually $60 or $120 round trip going to stop me from going to Daytona? Nope.
I laugh, then feel sorry, when I see people on the news complain they can't go on vacation due to the price of gas.
Gas is the LEAST expensive part of a road trip. It's the lodging, food [especially at the track] and yes ticket prices. Oh and beer.
S
SST55
Guest
When we took Ernies dads' rv we got better gas mileage than beer mileage. Now when traveling in your RV you don't have the expenses of lodging, your beds behind you. You can shop and load the fridge with food, you don't need to stop at resturants. You're self contained, no stopping to whiz over the guard rail. Two or three guys, one drives, one sleeps, one drinks. No stopping except for gas.
We did compare costs one year. Yup the RV was king in burning gas but when considering costs overall it was basically a wash.
Two or three guys, one drives, one sleeps, one drinks. No stopping except for gas.We did compare costs one year. Yup the RV was king in burning gas but when considering costs overall it was basically a wash.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
A wash? I don't know. I think overall it is probably cheaper for me to stay in my RV at the tracks that I go to but I still have to pay for the gas, food, camping spot, on & on. It's still a huge expense. I don't travel with a bunch of guys pitching in on all of those things. I travel as a family. We pull over to whiz. You can't generalize the NASCAR weekend for everyone attending. Again, while you laugh at those of us concerned about gas prices being a factor for our trips/vacations it's a hit to some of us. Sure, I could get by sharing the cost of a trip if I attended races differently but that's not an option for me and many others out here.When we took Ernies dads' rv we got better gas mileage than beer mileage. Now when traveling in your RV you don't have the expenses of lodging, your beds behind you. You can shop and load the fridge with food, you don't need to stop at resturants. You're self contained, no stopping to whiz over the guard rail.
We did compare costs one year. Yup the RV was king in burning gas but when considering costs overall it was basically a wash.
Thegroundpounder99
Bull in a China Shop
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I'm not going to blame the attendance solely on the economy, but it is a huge factor none the less. I think the Chase has hurt the significance of the 26 races before it starts, especially to the casual fan. I also think factors such as having as many 1.5 mile races on the schedule makes it become stale. I look forward to certain races a year. The short tracks(Martinsville, Bristol, Richmond) the road courses, and the 4 restrictor plate races and of course the one race at Darlington. Think the changes Nascar has made with the Chase and these new markets has had two big negative affects. 1. They failed to attract "new" fans and 2.) They pushed away the old ones. The other factor I can't ignore is Dale Earnhardt's death. Yes it was 11 years ago but I think Nascar would be a much different product if he was around today. We had Petty, Waltrip then Earnhardt and now anybody's opinion who is the face of our sport. There's no clear cut guy paving the way today IMO. I also think the cars we have today is in no comparison to what we used to have. You could tell the different cars back in the day a mile away. Today take the stickers and the C Post cut out and you won't tell starring at it in front of you more or less at your local car dealer. The 2013 cars will help this but it's been a long time since the win on Sunday sell on Monday thing made sence. Nascar has forgotten it's past and if they don't look back the future may be bleak IMO.
StewartHaas-Gibbs Racing
Team Owner
I've noticed the steady decline at Dover every year as well. I use to go to both Cup races ever year down there since it's the closest track to me that isn't Pocono(I'm in New York City) but I've been skipping the first race the last couple of years and just going to the one during the chase in the fall. I just don't think it's worth the money to go to both races down there every year. If I lived closer I would go to both though. Pocono isn't worth going to cause the view from the stands stinks unless you want to use binoculars the entire race.