Bucky Badger
Go Kyle Go
Go Kyle go
Nationwide Stands
- Thread starter SpeedPagan
- Start date
Nitro Dude
Hauler Driver and Cylinder Head Maintenance
Nascar Now reported that Kevin Harvick is going to run at least 12 NN races in 2014 for JR Motorsports in the #5 car.
Greg
2014 RF YAHOO CHAMP Your leader
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The stands are constructed out of the same materials that make up the cup stands. And beings that they aint racing on the same track at the same times they use the same exact stands.
The old Busch series now known as a Nationwide used to run at some old tracks with rickety stands. They looked liked 2 x 10s and was very flimsy.
Bruton has portable stands, that way when he needs something from the county, he can just threaten to set up an all new track just across the county line.
The old Busch series now known as a Nationwide used to run at some old tracks with rickety stands. They looked liked 2 x 10s and was very flimsy.
Bruton has portable stands, that way when he needs something from the county, he can just threaten to set up an all new track just across the county line.
97forever
Team Owner
lol
Now come on, this 'debate' wouldn't happen to be based on sour grapes from fans of certain drivers because KB ---with the aid of this series---now has like twice as many total Nascar wins as, say, Jimmie Johnson, would it??
Nah. Surely not.......
This entire sport might be renamed BUSCHCAR before all is said and done.
Now come on, this 'debate' wouldn't happen to be based on sour grapes from fans of certain drivers because KB ---with the aid of this series---now has like twice as many total Nascar wins as, say, Jimmie Johnson, would it??
Nah. Surely not.......
This entire sport might be renamed BUSCHCAR before all is said and done.
Bobw
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When Cup drivers run NNW it's with a better funded team with more resources and they use a more experienced pit crew. The drivers skill can be debated. But I don't feel the NY Yankees or NE Patriots playing a college team brings out the best in the sport. It's the same with cup drivers in NNW.
Most of the time cup drivers finish higher than a NNW regular and take a higher $ amount of the purse.
Most of the time cup drivers finish higher than a NNW regular and take a higher $ amount of the purse.
M
mreed
Guest
I'm not a Kyle or JJ fan, but I only count Cup wins for Cup drivers. When you look at the all-time win list for Cup drivers, it shows Cup wins only.
To me, adding wins in NW and trucks to a Cup series drivers win totals, seems like a stretch to make a driver look better than he really is.
97forever
Team Owner
Why only count cup wins for Nascar drivers that have raced in more than just cup?
Why not count total Nascar wins for Nascar drivers?
pjmolo
Director of driver attitude adjustments . . .
For the same reason that MLB keeps a player's minor league and major league stats separate.
97forever
Team Owner
Another stick and ball analogy ain't gonna cut it. Motorsports is a different animal...what else ya got?
M
mreed
Guest
I just said why. But also most drivers don't continue racing in the lower series once they move up to Cup, so comparing Kyle's wins in lower nascar series to someone like JJ who no longer races in the lower series is a skewed statistic.
97forever
Team Owner
'Lower series'? We are debating a handful of the same drivers that are in the 'upper series' along with a handful of other drivers that arent. If Busch beats Harvick or Brad on saturday or sunday it is still the same thing, right?
I think that is the whole argument though---the NW series is considered INFERIOR by some and not by others. I don't think it is personally, others disagree.
M
mreed
Guest
Yes, your example would be the same thing. But your original post was about Kyle and JJ.
I'm not going to debate it. Just stating how I feel about it, and you're not going to change my mind.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
A comparison of a Cup win to a Nationwide win or a Camping World Truck Series win never came about until Kyles run in all three series. The key word being NEVER. There simply in no comparison and I don't think any need for explanation. It's self explanatory IMO.
Your local short track is considered minor league. Nationwide is a whole different thing. You can compete for wins at your local short track with a sponsorship from the local mom & pop tire store. You want to compete for wins in the Nationwide Series, you better be driving a racecar from a multi-million dollar race team with nationally recognized sponsorship.
Far from "minor league."
Far from "minor league."
97forever
Team Owner
Total Nascar wins is also pretty self explanatory.
Beating Dillon in NW is a lot bigger accomplishment than beating Gilliland in Cup.
Beating Dillon in NW is a lot bigger accomplishment than beating Gilliland in Cup.
97forever
Team Owner
You are one of my favorite posters on here, calm and fair, but I disagree here on the reasoning.
The REASON it has never been compared is more than likely because the 'big names' simply can't compare stat wise when you DO factor in all three series.....seriously, they can't. Earnhardt can't, Stewart can't, Waltrip can't, etc, etc....
97forever
Team Owner
In fact, I am sure the Nascar PR folks would have a virtual nightmare on their hands if the major motorsports powers that be DID start popularly including the overall stats(which IMO they should) rather than just cherry picking which series they happen to favor.
Gordon and JJ sell t-shirts, being cute and all...and Kyle, well, he just ain't the likable or pretty type, lol.
Gordon and JJ sell t-shirts, being cute and all...and Kyle, well, he just ain't the likable or pretty type, lol.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
I guess we all look at this differently but if someone asks me how many wins a particular driver has I think of Cup. I don't look at a win in the Nationwide Series or Craftsman Truck Series to be equal to a win in Cup. I will have to agree to disagree.
97forever
Team Owner
Yeah, it reminds me of an old debate long ago on Pearson vs Petty.
The line went something like "If Pearson had been more committed to running full schedules rather than his favored partial season, he could have had more wins than Petty"......and it was true than David and The Wood brothers did prefer only partial seasons and big money races, unlike the King.
Still though, the history books reflect RP has more wins, cut and dried, and hypotheticals really make no difference. That's kinda how I view this, lol
ToyYoda
Team Owner
I'm a fan of Kyle Busch, but I'll admit that the "124 NASCAR wins" stat does get de-legitimized quite a bit considering only 28 of those (22.6%) are Cup wins.
Some will hate this, but I'm gonna use a stick and ball reference. In a college football season, if North Dakota State goes 12-0 and Alabama goes 11-1, does that make NDSU the better team because they had more wins? Absolutely not, it all depends on the quality of those wins and the competition you had to beat to get them.
If you're gonna go stick & ball you can't use college ball and pro ball in the same analogy.
Cup and Nationwide are both considered pro.
ToyYoda
Team Owner
NDSU and Alabama are both college teams last time I checked.
Nitro Dude
Hauler Driver and Cylinder Head Maintenance
Well, it looks like nothing has changed much on this subject. All of the same players giving the same views that they gave in all the other threads on this same subject.
FLRacingFan
Team Owner
Kyle Busch win percentage by series:
1.) Truck - 30.36% (34 wins in 112 starts)
2.) Nationwide - 23.22% (62 wins in 267 starts)
3.) Cup - 8.64% (28 wins in 324 starts)
His Cup win percentage is still very good (4th among active drivers and 26th all-time) but it's obvious there's a significant talent and equipment disparity between the series. You could do this for a lot of drivers, too...Harvick, Biffle, Kenseth, Edwards, Martin, etc. Whenever Kyle gets to 201 I don't think it will be as big of an accomplishment as some seem to think it will be.
Yeah I wouldn't know. I only watch pro sports.
I can go to the park if I wanna see amateurs
Don't try to confuse them by using facts to support your point of view.
T
TooSweet
Guest
How do the current ratings compare to 10, 15, 20 years ago? I understand why Cup guys are prevalent in Nationwide ($$$) but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I enjoyed the Busch Series a lot back in the 90s; the racing was great and a variety of Busch regulars won and ran up front, despite the presence of a few Cup guys several weekends.
From a hardcore fan's perspective, I wish Nationwide would go back to the old days when they raced at a lot of non-Cup tracks. I think that would solve a lot of things, although I haven't done the research to find out if that would make sense from Nascar's perspective (again, all about the ratings and $$$).
From a hardcore fan's perspective, I wish Nationwide would go back to the old days when they raced at a lot of non-Cup tracks. I think that would solve a lot of things, although I haven't done the research to find out if that would make sense from Nascar's perspective (again, all about the ratings and $$$).
The Nationwide Series would not draw enough regular attendance as a standalone series.
Thats pretty much what the NASCAR K&N Pro Series is these days. It has its own series veterans and rookies that move on to bigger series soon. Runs at mostly short tracks and road courses that aren't on the top 3 NASCAR Schedules (the only ones that they do run that cup does is Dover, New Hampshire, Phoenix and Sonoma). No cup stars like Kyle interfere (YET!). Just great racing with the (possible) future stars of NASCAR.
T
TooSweet
Guest
Agreed. I still think they should race at several of the same Cup tracks on the same weekends, just not most or all of the time. Look at the '94 BGN schedule, for example...
http://racing-reference.info/raceyear/1994/B
The quality of the racing in '94 wasn't as good (Cup drivers dominated when they entered, only a handful of drivers even finished on the lead lap some races) but look at the tracks. 12(!) out of 27 were at short tracks. I guess variety is what I'm asking for. Not just in Nationwide, but Cup as well.
pjmolo
Director of driver attitude adjustments . . .
Which leads to the question, if Kyle decided to add a few K&N Pro Series races to his schedule, do those wins get added to his NASCAR total ?
No, but his frequent flyer mileage total would skyrocket.
Nitro Dude
Hauler Driver and Cylinder Head Maintenance
I kind of look at it as the K&N series is for the real novice drivers, and the Nationwide series is where the more experienced drivers can get their feet wet in a ring with a few of the big daddy lions before they are threw into a whole field of ferocious lions when they get to cup. But, i also understand why some fans feel the cup drivers have an unfair advantage and get tired of seeing the same drivers winning all the time.
StandOnIt
Farm Truck
Not only wasn't the racing as good, don't forget the money..short tracks don't pay squat 94, 96 grand split thru the field. Haulers, tires, equipment and supplies aren't any cheaper. 12 out of 27 were short tracks..now 33 races, 6 more money makers with full
TV coverage. triple the road races and talking about adding more. 6 less dinky tracks but adding the 3 road courses and including 6 quality short tracks, you have 9 what I would call short track action, compared to 12 and 1 roadie, 13 with the old schedule. So
it isn't that drastically different in my opinion and a whole lot more of a challenge. If I was driving, I want to make the most money I can, if I wanted to drive small tracks I would sacrifice by making a whole lot less money and run a whole lot less of a car in the K&N.
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YEP.
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YEP.
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You forgot to add his stats in NNS while in his own equipment and team instead of JGRs Cup team and equipment in NNS.
StandOnIt
Farm Truck
Ol' Kyle might have some competition.
http://www.jrmracing.com/news/2013/10/14/kevin-harvick-to-drive-nns-races-for-jrm-in-2014
Hunt Bros. is good for 4 races.
While Harvick’s Nationwide Series schedule for 2014 is still being finalized, the races in which Hunt Brothers Pizza will serve as primary sponsor have been set. The Hunt Brothers Pizza scheme will be featured at Bristol Motor Speedway, Charlotte Motor Speedway, and both races at Texas Motor Speedway.
“As a long-time sponsor of Kevin, we’re excited to make the move with him to JR Motorsports,” said Keith Solsvig, vice president of marketing at Hunt Brothers Pizza.
Harvick won Nationwide Series championships in 2001 and 2006. He is ranked third on the all-time Nationwide Series winners list with 40 victories, including one this season at Atlanta Motor Speedway (Aug. 31).