Nationwide winner, points or no points?

dpkimmel2001

dpkimmel2001

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Quick..... Who's the points leader in the Nationwide Series? OK, so maybe some of you were able to name him right off but how bout' that Nationwide Series points race? Queue the crickets. Seven drivers within 12 points of the lead in this barn burner of a season. I know I'm on the edge of my seat! :rolleyes:

OK, so I may be stretching this quite a bit but this may just be the week that the Nationwide Series winner will actually get points. This will be their best chance to date in 2011. 43 drivers attempting to qualify for this weeks Nashville 300, 7 of which are unable to collect championship driver points. Kyle Busch, Joey Logano, Brad Keselowski, Austin Dillon, Carl Edwards, David Reutimann, & Kevin Conway are the non point contingent. So, what are the odds that a points eligible driver will win this week? I hear ya..... slim & none.

Do you think the powers that be @ NASCAR can possibly be happy with the way this Nationwide Series points battle is shaping up? It's made this Nationwide points battle totally meaningless in my eyes. Whether or not you have a problem with Cup regulars running in the Nationwide Series wouldn't you rather see the champion be crowned as a result of being the best on the track and not the best in class?
 
Yes I would , Nascar certainly didn't think this out very well did they. What a joke!
 
Going to be difficult to accept a "champion" who didn't win a single race, who finished in the top ten only a handful of times and had a average finish of 12th or worse [examples only, don't be going Charlie Sheen on me:D]

Give the winner the trophy, the top finishing regular 1st prze money, second regular 2nd prize money etc. No money for those not running for the championship.
 
winning a nw championship as is would be a pretty hollow championship. the problem still comes back to too many cup drivers double dipping in the nw series. put a cap on the number of nw races a cup driver can participate in (5?) and total number of non-nw drivers per race (5?). non-nw drivers would have to compete amongst themselves for the right to participate in the nw race or go home.
 
How could Nascar NOT know how this system would shake out?

If anything, it increased the chances of a cup regular winning NNS races.
 
SlowNeasy said:
winning a nw championship as is would be a pretty hollow championship. the problem still comes back to too many cup drivers double dipping in the nw series. put a cap on the number of nw races a cup driver can participate in (5?) and total number of non-nw drivers per race (5?). non-nw drivers would have to compete amongst themselves for the right to participate in the nw race or go home.
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Just allow each driver to only enter 1 event per track per weekend.
That would solve it all.
Then if a cup driver wants to make a seperate journey to say "road America", that'd be OK, because it's a seperate track.
The NNS series may suffer for a year, but eventually the NNS drivers could forge their own rivalries, and identities, instead of sucking hind tit to Edwards and Kryle every week.
MoMike
 
MoMike said:
Just allow each driver to only enter 1 event per track per weekend.
That would solve it all.
Then if a cup driver wants to make a seperate journey to say "road America", that'd be OK, because it's a seperate track.
The NNS series may suffer for a year, but eventually the NNS drivers could forge their own rivalries, and identities, instead of sucking hind tit to Edwards and Kryle every week.
MoMike
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I hate this. If a Driver wants to race, then let him race. I don't care if it's Lawn Mower racing.

This is auto racing, not baseball.
 
sloggie said:
I hate this. If a Driver wants to race, then let him race. I don't care if it's Lawn Mower racing.

This is auto racing, not baseball.
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Whats to hate? You got a top notch cup driver, stepping into basic cup technology equipment, and dominating a lower class field.
Hey if Carl, or Kyle want to drive for Morgan Sheppard, than things would be alittle different, but as it stands now, it's B.S., whether you hate it or not.
MoMike
 
While it's true that NASCAR is allowing this to go on, the drivers need to understand that they're doing absolutely no good to the lower series by dominating week after week.

Also, maybe they shouldn't limit the drivers, but should limit the car owners instead. Put a limit on these big budget teams that have never ending funds from running the full series.
 
VaDirt said:
While it's true that NASCAR is allowing this to go on, the drivers need to understand that they're doing absolutely no good to the lower series by dominating week after week.

Also, maybe they shouldn't limit the drivers, but should limit the car owners instead. Put a limit on these big budget teams that have never ending funds from running the full series.
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Exactly Carl Edwards when interviewed about simply does not give a crap that he is messing with it.
 
it's all about the $$$.

if i remember correctly, it wasn't that long ago that the winston cup and busch series' raced at different tracks most weekends. track owners brought both series to the track for a weekend to sell higher dollar weekend ticket packages.

cup teams jumped on the busch series bandwagon with the megabucks from already established sponsors. then those sponsors wanted the highest profile names they could get. and that meant cup stars, not no-names getting experience in great equipment.

again, it's all about the money: nascar. track owners, television contracts, sponsors, the megateams, etc.

and not to worry. this years' champ Justin Allgaier will have a win or two.:D
 
Maybe it's time that NASCAR started forcing drivers to choose one series for the season. If you choose Cup, you can't race in NNW or Truck, and so on.
 
Coming from guy who used to really appreciate the BGN Series I think this new (I guess they've been doing full time in both Series for a decade now, so it isn't really anything "new") concept of pandering to the Cup Raiding drivers and teams stinks with a capital STINKS. The idea of a "Champion being best in class and not best in the series is just wrong, on so many levels.

BUT, it's the new Brian Z. France version of NASCAR and I guess it could be called progress, and this new Cup Lite points structure called change. In the thread concerning the Love Bug Racing at the plate tracks Buckaroo told us:
"It doesn't matter what the change is, there will always be the same who complain about the changes. Maybe its time for the old guard that can't keep up with the changes to find another interest.

Maybe that statement might be germane to this topic also. I know it is for me. For three seasons I have ranked watching Cup Lite right up there with watching E! and the Lifetime Channels for entertainment. This "Old Guard" got the message, loud and clear, particularly when it came to Cup Lite.
 
For those people who say cup drivers should be able to run whatever series they want whenever they want just think of it like this. What if you played on your local HS football team and you have to go out and play the New England Patriots every weekend. It wouldn't be very fun would it? I imagine that's how the non cup teams feel every race knowing they have almost no chance to win the race. Even know in the stand alone events you still have Kyle, Logano, Brad K, Edwards racing for NO reason what so ever.
 
Stewart Fan said:
For those people who say cup drivers should be able to run whatever series they want whenever they want just think of it like this. What if you played on your local HS football team and you have to go out and play the New England Patriots every weekend. It wouldn't be very fun would it? I imagine that's how the non cup teams feel every race knowing they have almost no chance to win the race. Even know in the stand alone events you still have Kyle, Logano, Brad K, Edwards racing for NO reason what so ever.
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The winner will come from one of those 4 at Nashville too. Guaranteed.
It's gotta be demoralizing to the NNS regulars.
 
I don't know about anyone else here but as far as I'm concerned, if I were no better than "The best of the rest," and they wanted to give me a trophy and championship recognition for that , I would consider it charity of a sort, and I'm not big on receiving charity.
 
If any of the regular NNS drivers had any STONES, they would be putting these Sprint Cup drivers in the wall early on in each race. :growl::growl:
 
MELROSEMAFIA said:
If any of the regular NNS drivers had any STONES, they would be putting these Sprint Cup drivers in the wall early on in each race. :growl::growl:
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Well, who was it that took Busch out "accidentally" a couple races ago?
That could be a start..:beerbang:
 
SpeedPagan said:
Maybe it's time that NASCAR started forcing drivers to choose one series for the season. If you choose Cup, you can't race in NNW or Truck, and so on.
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Wouldn't be surprised to see this after 2011.
 
SpeedPagan said:
The old way is no better than it is now, you still have Cup guys playing in the minor leagues.
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Yeh I know, but then at least you would have a true champion. I would like to see Nascar allow just 5 starts per year, but I don't see it happening.
 
sloggie said:
I hate this. If a Driver wants to race, then let him race. I don't care if it's Lawn Mower racing.

This is auto racing, not baseball.
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These guys are hurting the future of the Cup Series by dipping down into the NS races. I understand a few races here or there, i dont understand running the entire schedule.

I havent watched a full NS race in probably 5 years (or more), I get annoyed knowing that only the Cup drivers have a shot at winning. It's a joke.
 
Go Panthers said:
These guys are hurting the future of the Cup Series by dipping down into the NS races. I understand a few races here or there, i dont understand running the entire schedule.

I havent watched a full NS race in probably 5 years (or more), I get annoyed knowing that only the Cup drivers have a shot at winning. It's a joke.
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And you have several in the race this weekend at a stand alone event. You have to wonder is it money or just ego that keeps them in the series.
 
I blame alot of it on the sponsor's too. Remember the race where I think it was Almirola was driving for Denny and had the lead. But when Denny got there the sponsor said take Almirola out and put Denny in the car.
 
JustMe said:
I blame alot of it on the sponsor's too. Remember the race where I think it was Almirola was driving for Denny and had the lead. But when Denny got there the sponsor said take Almirola out and put Denny in the car.
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AT&T 250 at the Milwaukee Mile in 2007 & yes, that sucked that they did that! Almirola was running 3rd, 60 laps into the race when Hamlin took over.
 
JustMe said:
I blame alot of it on the sponsor's too. Remember the race where I think it was Almirola was driving for Denny and had the lead. But when Denny got there the sponsor said take Almirola out and put Denny in the car.
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yep, and i'm still po'd about it. i'll bet aric is too.
 
I heard Kyle say in his interview yesterday that Gibbs still had the lead in owner points. That raised a flag with me. Did he hang in there and finish second just for owner points?
Back in the day it was unheard of to have different points champion's from different teams in cup or busch. It seemed to me that was in place as a perk for a winning car owner of the driver that won the championship.
I believe it was Childress that won the owners points a few years back with 3 or 4 different drivers in the same car throughout the year.
It should be no points for owner or driver unless signed up for that series, a maxium of 5 races per year.
If for instance Gibbs put a nationwide regular in the 18 nationwide car then give him points even if for only 2 races and if Kyle ran the rest no owner points.
 
racer8 said:
I heard Kyle say in his interview yesterday that Gibbs still had the lead in owner points. That raised a flag with me. Did he hang in there and finish second just for owner points?
Back in the day it was unheard of to have different points champion's from different teams in cup or busch. It seemed to me that was in place as a perk for a winning car owner of the driver that won the championship.
I believe it was Childress that won the owners points a few years back with 3 or 4 different drivers in the same car throughout the year.
It should be no points for owner or driver unless signed up for that series, a maxium of 5 races per year.
If for instance Gibbs put a nationwide regular in the 18 nationwide car then give him points even if for only 2 races and if Kyle ran the rest no owner points.
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I don't understand why everyone is so concerned with this? It's about racing isn't? Who cares if the guy is in Cup, an ARCA driver, the owner gets points or the crew chief has pimples on this face?

Let's race!
 
zevious said:
I don't understand why everyone is so concerned with this? It's about racing isn't? Who cares if the guy is in Cup, an ARCA driver, the owner gets points or the crew chief has pimples on this face?

Let's race!
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Your rationale seems like it would be like saying, "I love to watch a fight. Who cares if one fighter is 200 lbs and trained in martial arts and the opponent is your basic 98 lb. weakling who has one hand tied behind his back. Who cares, it's still "Fighting?"

Sorry zeavious. I know it works for you and I respect that, but for me the situation just plain stinks.
 
John Galt said:
Your rationale seems like it would be like saying, "I love to watch a fight. Who cares if one fighter is 200 lbs and trained in martial arts and the opponent is your basic 98 lb. weakling who has one hand tied behind his back. Who cares, it's still "Fighting?"

Sorry zeavious. I know it works for you and I respect that, but for me the situation just plain stinks.
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Totally agree
 
John Galt said:
Your rationale seems like it would be like saying, "I love to watch a fight. Who cares if one fighter is 200 lbs and trained in martial arts and the opponent is your basic 98 lb. weakling who has one hand tied behind his back. Who cares, it's still "Fighting?"

Sorry zeavious. I know it works for you and I respect that, but for me the situation just plain stinks.
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It's like Steve Urkel fighting Brock Lesnar.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Totally agree
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I think I understand where zeavious is coming from, and to his credit he has a valid point. It is racing. (Yeah, I probably was a little dramatic on my "98# weakling" analogy) And what's going on is Cup Lie and now the trucks goes on at every race track I've ever been to and in every racing series I've ever been affiliated with. The bottom line is the old racing adage, "Money buys speed and championships." It's been that way ever since I started kicking around tracks and that goes back to the flathead era. I can't think of any relatively open series where the best financed teams win type vast majority of the races.

What I have a lot of heartburn with is the fact that BGN, and to some extent CTS, were developmental series where owners, drivers, crew chiefs and wrenches made their bones. Drivers became winners, impressed people and moved up in ranks, sometimes taking their teams with them. It was evolution and darn if it didn't work!

Today the actual BGN drivers get no experience in winning in Cup Lite. It's conceivable that a driver could be asked to move up to Cup after a couple years in Cup Lite having maybe a single win and only a handful of top five finishes? Cup teams have raised the cost of running Cup Lite so high that regular BGN owners have left in droves. The successful Cup Lite teams are merely satellite Cup operations, to the point where they even use the same crew members.

Sponsors which could be financing the cars that are S&P'ers are sponsoring Cup Lite teams because they can get a Dale Jr. in their car vice having to see a Joe Nemechek driving their colors.

The idea of awarding the series championship to "Second in class" is just... insulting.

I could go on and on and on as to why I think the current situation stinks. I guess if you want to see cars go fast it's OK. There's a lot to be said for that. But it isn't the type of competition in a development series that I care to see.
 
John Galt said:
I think I understand where zeavious is coming from, and to his credit he has a valid point. It is racing. (Yeah, I probably was a little dramatic on my "98# weakling" analogy) And what's going on is Cup Lie and now the trucks goes on at every race track I've ever been to and in every racing series I've ever been affiliated with. The bottom line is the old racing adage, "Money buys speed and championships." It's been that way ever since I started kicking around tracks and that goes back to the flathead era. I can't think of any relatively open series where the best financed teams win type vast majority of the races.

What I have a lot of heartburn with is the fact that BGN, and to some extent CTS, were developmental series where owners, drivers, crew chiefs and wrenches made their bones. Drivers became winners, impressed people and moved up in ranks, sometimes taking their teams with them. It was evolution and darn if it didn't work!

Maybe, just maybe the old IROC series does have a place in sports.
It can take the place of the BGN, where drivers drive as close to identical equipment as it can be.
Owners can front the bill to play, and an outside "firm" builds cars to race.
Everyone gets a fair shake.
MoMike

Today the actual BGN drivers get no experience in winning in Cup Lite. It's conceivable that a driver could be asked to move up to Cup after a couple years in Cup Lite having maybe a single win and only a handful of top five finishes? Cup teams have raised the cost of running Cup Lite so high that regular BGN owners have left in droves. The successful Cup Lite teams are merely satellite Cup operations, to the point where they even use the same crew members.

Sponsors which could be financing the cars that are S&P'ers are sponsoring Cup Lite teams because they can get a Dale Jr. in their car vice having to see a Joe Nemechek driving their colors.

The idea of awarding the series championship to "Second in class" is just... insulting.

I could go on and on and on as to why I think the current situation stinks. I guess if you want to see cars go fast it's OK. There's a lot to be said for that. But it isn't the type of competition in a development series that I care to see.
Click to expand...
 
John Galt said:
I think I understand where zeavious is coming from, and to his credit he has a valid point. It is racing. (Yeah, I probably was a little dramatic on my "98# weakling" analogy) And what's going on is Cup Lie and now the trucks goes on at every race track I've ever been to and in every racing series I've ever been affiliated with. The bottom line is the old racing adage, "Money buys speed and championships." It's been that way ever since I started kicking around tracks and that goes back to the flathead era. I can't think of any relatively open series where the best financed teams win type vast majority of the races.

What I have a lot of heartburn with is the fact that BGN, and to some extent CTS, were developmental series where owners, drivers, crew chiefs and wrenches made their bones. Drivers became winners, impressed people and moved up in ranks, sometimes taking their teams with them. It was evolution and darn if it didn't work!

Today the actual BGN drivers get no experience in winning in Cup Lite. It's conceivable that a driver could be asked to move up to Cup after a couple years in Cup Lite having maybe a single win and only a handful of top five finishes? Cup teams have raised the cost of running Cup Lite so high that regular BGN owners have left in droves. The successful Cup Lite teams are merely satellite Cup operations, to the point where they even use the same crew members.

Sponsors which could be financing the cars that are S&P'ers are sponsoring Cup Lite teams because they can get a Dale Jr. in their car vice having to see a Joe Nemechek driving their colors.

The idea of awarding the series championship to "Second in class" is just... insulting.

I could go on and on and on as to why I think the current situation stinks. I guess if you want to see cars go fast it's OK. There's a lot to be said for that. But it isn't the type of competition in a development series that I care to see.
Click to expand...

Maybe, just maybe the old IROC series does have a place in sports.
It can take the place of the BGN, where drivers drive as close to identical equipment as it can be.
Owners can front the bill to play, and an outside "firm" builds cars to race.
Everyone gets a fair shake. They can all race, without the advantage of roush, or gibbs technology.

MoMike
 
The biggest problem I have with it is the developmental part, it seemed to work great in the past, now you get these kids in Cup when they are 18, 19, and 20. They are rushed because they are the next pretty face, are articulate, and can spout off all their sponsor in a matter of 30 seconds. I used to love watching the BGN series because by mid season you could see what drivers had a decent chance of being in Cup the next season. Now I don't even know any of their names. I think if the cars were a lot different and the schedules were also we wouldn't see so many Cup guys coming into Nationwide. Nascar doesn't seem to want make a sincere effort to change this any time soon either. They put little token efforts into it just like they do to the plate fiasco, but nothing changes. If I want to watch Cup guys I tune in on Sunday not to the Nationwide race on a Saturday. I think Nascar is really making a mockery of the sport, but hey a lot of you younger fans seem to like it and I think that is what Nascar is gearing their product for.
 
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