OLD POINT SYSTEM VS NEW SYSTEM/ PLAYOFFS

ToyYoda said:
I think the stage points/playoff points were a huge step in the right direction. It has made the regular season a lot more meaningful than it's been the last three years. I'm also glad they've allowed the bonus points to carry over to rounds 2 and 3 of the playoffs. Those two things have taken a lot of the randomness out of determining a champion.
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not knowing nothing about how it is going to turn out. I agree, I think it took out the Ryan Newman or Denny Hamlin competitor out of the final four. The four will be there for not only the season but how they are doing in the playoffs. It takes out the "fluke" factor hopefully. Four worthy champions. (not around here, right Martin and Gordon fans)
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
That is a funny story! I think the best way to get someone hooked is to take them to the track. I am impressed by how many races you have been to already and I know there will be many more.
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Yea I love it man.. I'm going to darlington and homestead can't wait!!! I love lil towns like Bristol and martinsville and darlington .. places I would have never went to if it wasn't for NASCAR..
 
bustedknee said:
I have never said that...and I have been quite critical. And vocal.


Do away with the points system completely and lets go racing.


THE CAR AND DRIVER THAT FINISHES FIRST IS THE WINNER!

THE DRIVER THAT WINS THE MOST RACES IS THE CHAMPION!


In case of a tie, the driver with the most 2nd place finishes - wins. Etc., etc...


But most importantly -- bring back the old Martinsville Hotdog!!!


And back off on the inspections,
Making the teams drive identical cars is like making all the American Idol contestants sing the same song - boring.
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The old martinsville hotdog is there they said they been changed it back after JR and fans complained
 
Snappy D said:
That season was a complete Petty beatdown.
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It was, but you would never know that just by looking at the championship standings in the points column. It illustrates my belief that the Nascar points system has *never* been designed to crown the most deserving driver. It was designed to keep it close, which it did by under-rewarding winners and propping up the mid-field runners with inflated points. And the unfortunate result is that the championship has gone to the wrong guy a number of times over Nascar's history.

For sure, the 2017 points system is better than the last few years because the regular season matters. The current system rewards regular season excellence, and I like that a lot.
 
I am a big fan of the playoff format even before the stages. Makes the whole season meaningful and a championship isn't won until the last race.
 
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LewTheShoe said:
It was, but you would never know that just by looking at the championship standings in the points column. It illustrates my belief that the Nascar points system has *never* been designed to crown the most deserving driver. It was designed to keep it close, which it did by under-rewarding winners and propping up the mid-field runners with inflated points. And the unfortunate result is that the championship has gone to the wrong guy a number of times over Nascar's history.

For sure, the 2017 points system is better than the last few years because the regular season matters. The current system rewards regular season excellence, and I like that a lot.
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Interesting Theory, I Never thought of it like that. Makes me wonder really, I thought the old Winston Cup points system was the best IMO but you've really made me think.
 
Snappy D said:
I

Interesting Theory, I Never thought of it like that. Makes me wonder really, I thought the old Winston Cup points system was the best IMO but you've really made me think.
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When a points scale stretches all the way from the winner to the last place car and is nearly linear in progression over the entire field, it will always under-reward the winner and prop up the mid-field runners. Nascar Cup races are devilishly hard to win. It is sooo much easier to finish fifth or tenth. Achieving the win is a big accomplishment, and it deserves a big reward in points, IMO.

In my ideal world, Nascar would use a F1-type steeply progressive scale, but expanded to pay points down to 20th place. And then a "chase for the championship" that is a 10-race mini-season (that includes regular season win bonuses). Just my $0.02.
 
Thegeneral23 said:
The old martinsville hotdog is there they said they been changed it back after JR and fans complained
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No kidding?
Maybe, I would have heard this very important bit of news if I had watched a race or two. I figured the "You-can-never-go-back" guys were right.
Going now to check tickets for the Old Dominion 500.
 
The best thing to do with the points system would have been to tweak the classic system as people would have accepted it, understood it and it would have avoided all the angst the 4-5 methods they have used since 2003 has caused. We are at a point now where it doesn't really matter as fewer and fewer people are following the series so what people don't know won't hurt them.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
The best thing to do with the points system would have been to tweak the classic system as people would have accepted it, understood it and it would have avoided all the angst the 4-5 methods they have used since 2003 has caused. We are at a point now where it doesn't really matter as fewer and fewer people are following the series so what people don't know won't hurt them.
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Agreed 10000000%.
 
LewTheShoe said:
When a points scale stretches all the way from the winner to the last place car and is nearly linear in progression over the entire field, it will always under-reward the winner and prop up the mid-field runners. Nascar Cup races are devilishly hard to win. It is sooo much easier to finish fifth or tenth. Achieving the win is a big accomplishment, and it deserves a big reward in points, IMO.

In my ideal world, Nascar would use a F1-type steeply progressive scale, but expanded to pay points down to 20th place. And then a "chase for the championship" that is a 10-race mini-season (that includes regular season win bonuses). Just my $0.02.
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I like your idea. Id skip the Chase though and keep it a full season points system with say 195 for the winner, 165 for second and so on so forth through maybe 25th-30 place. Id also add 10 bonus points for a lap led, most laps led, fastest lap of the race ( hope its not a problem at super speedways) and Pole Position.
 
Good assessment about the new points system

Watching them suffer as they struggle to make the playoffs is half the fun

It should feel like trying to cram 30 race cars into a box designed for only 16, because that's what it is.
"If I wanted to just be comfortable, then I'd be doing something else for a living," Gibson said. "But guess what? I don't want to be doing something else for a living. I want to race. And I want to win championships."
When I worked with Rusty Wallace at ESPN we were in a production meeting together where the topic was the pressure of making the playoffs. The NASCAR Hall of Famer got so lathered up over a soundbite from a current driver about unfair Chase pressure he nearly started shouting.

"This s--- ain't easy, man!" he said."It's not supposed to easy! It's dangerous and it's hard and it's exhausting. I worked my ass off for thirty f------ years and I only won one championship. Had my damn heart broken another half-dozen times coming so close and not winning it.

"If racing was easy then everyone would do it. Hell, McGee over there would do it ... no offense, man."

http://www.espn.com/racing/nascar/story/_/id/20097414/nascar-comes-racing-harder-better
 
ToyYoda said:
I think the stage points/playoff points were a huge step in the right direction. It has made the regular season a lot more meaningful than it's been the last three years. I'm also glad they've allowed the bonus points to carry over to rounds 2 and 3 of the playoffs. Those two things have taken a lot of the randomness out of determining a champion.
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I think its a big step in the right direction.
 
StandOnIt said:
not knowing nothing about how it is going to turn out. I agree, I think it took out the Ryan Newman or Denny Hamlin competitor out of the final four. The four will be there for not only the season but how they are doing in the playoffs. It takes out the "fluke" factor hopefully. Four worthy champions. (not around here, right Martin and Gordon fans)
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That is all I want to see, just take the flukes out so the four final drivers would be the top four best drivers/teams for the year.
 
it won't be perfect, I believe in the final four there will be at least one team who has done better than the rest in the playoff section, good chance it could be the overall season winner or the team that came in second and there will be an underdog, but not a fluke who squeaked in I'm hoping. We won't go into off season with a bad taste in our mouths like a couple years ago with Harvick's deal or what happened to Jimmie. They would have had enough playoff points to change the outcome, might have even won the championship.
 
Stage racing isnt on my top 10 list. Way too many caution laps. Case in point, a caution comes out with 9 to go until the 'stage".. 6 laps of yellow, 1 or 2 laps of green and another 7 laps of caution for the "stage". Nascrap threw enough horse sh!t cautions already over the years, some to make sure a "star" driver didnt go a lap down. (Some were perfectly timed of course, ask T. Steward #14 last year for the "win")
 
I'm not quite sure why they ever implemented a point-per-position system...it is somewhat better this year with the bigger gap from 1st to 2nd, giving 36th-40th the same amount of points, and stage bonuses, but it's still far from ideal. I've read that it was supposed to be "simpler" but I doubt it inspired anyone to change how they tracked the points.
 
There is certainly nothing that is simpler about today's point/playoff structure. This is the most convoluted format to date. I'm only guessing that many fans today are simply thinking to themselves..... Just tell me what the points are once this Chase, err, playoff, starts and I'm okay with it.

While I feel that I have a good grasp of its overall structure, I'd probably fail to explain it properly to a new, interested fan of the sport. It is overly complicated and so far, a failed system. The numerous changes to its structure only magnify that point.
 
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Simple Fan said:
I am a big fan of the playoff format even before the stages. Makes the whole season meaningful and a championship isn't won until the last race.
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I think that's one of the big factors that affects a person's attitude toward the points systems that have been used. Some want to see the championship up in the air until the last race, permitting those who get hot at the end to a have a shot.. Others prefer an emphasis on consistent performance over the entire season, regardless of whether that lets a driver lock up the title with a couple of races to go.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I've always preferred crowning a season long champion over today's made for television Championship.

I've never said that changing back would bring back the fans. I'm not sure that I've ever heard anyone say that.
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Who said you did??:idunno:
 
Thegeneral23 said:
Who said you did??:idunno:
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I guess I'm not following you. You asked a question that I thought was available for anyone on this board to answer.

I am one of the people that you described as not liking this current system but I've never said anything about bringing back the old system to make NASCAR great again in turn bringing back all the fans. I've also never heard anyone else say that.

If you don't want to know, don't ask.
 
I've heard a million reasons for the running off of fans, some here have even compiled lists for the reasons for lost souls. Some of them spend most of their waking hours trying to prove their point. There are probably one or two out there blaming the points system, and a whole hoard blaming the playoff point system for their leaving. My opinion was they were probably going to bail anyway just needed a good excuse. for me I don't think there is a point system out there that could please Nascar fans. Sooner or later they would want to change it.:D
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I guess I'm not following you. You asked a question that I thought was available for anyone on this board to answer.

I am one of the people that you described as not liking this current system but I've never said anything about bringing back the old system to make NASCAR great again in turn bringing back all the fans. I've also never heard anyone else say that.

If you don't want to know, don't ask.
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No i asked the question because I was trying to see why you put what you put earlier because i never once mentioned you or said your name that's why I'm so confused lol
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I guess I'm not following you. You asked a question that I thought was available for anyone on this board to answer.

I am one of the people that you described as not liking this current system but I've never said anything about bringing back the old system to make NASCAR great again in turn bringing back all the fans. I've also never heard anyone else say that.

If you don't want to know, don't ask.
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All I did was make a thread lol.. where did I mention you or say your name ?? I'm so confused right now
 
StandOnIt said:
I've heard a million reasons for the running off of fans, some here have even compiled lists for the reasons for lost souls. Some of them spend most of their waking hours trying to prove their point. There are probably one or two out there blaming the points system, and a whole hoard blaming the playoff point system for their leaving. My opinion was they were probably going to bail anyway just needed a good excuse. for me I don't think there is a point system out there that could please Nascar fans. Sooner or later they would want to change it.:D
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NASCAR fans in general can never be happy all the time, so .......
 
See people always complaining about how they want the old point system back lol
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Most of them don't even know which one they want back, as has been pointed out, there are a ton of points systems Nascar has used over the years. I don't think anybody really knows how many.:D
 
StandOnIt said:
Most of them don't even know which one they want back, as has been pointed out, there are a ton of points systems Nascar has used over the years. I don't think anybody really knows how many.:D
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I was trying to prove a point just now.. it was someone in here that said they never seen where someone said they want old point system back to make NASCAR great again .. when basically that's what a lot of people say
 
Thegeneral23 said:
I was trying to prove a point just now.. it was someone in here that said they never seen where someone said they want old point system back to make NASCAR great again .. when basically that's what a lot of people say
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That is about the average statement of the average know it all me too herd person. It is no longer "trendy" to be a Nascar fan, so they Parrot what they have heard, makes a nice sound bite so they can show their oh, look at me and the ol lady I'm cool picture. But yeah, you don't have nothing to prove, some around here have never said, that me included. But like I said, be prepared for lists, half pages of figures and snarky comments :p That is the way it is around here, people are as happy or as miserable as they want to be.
 
I have had the same person cut my hair for over 30 years and we were talking about some of the changes she has seen in that time and how she is down to 2 rinse and sets a week for her "old lady" customers and when she started out that was the bulk of her business. The ladies that liked rinse and sets and had standing appointments each week have died off and no one is taking their place under the beehive hair dryers. We can discuss polyester stretch pants and a later date.

Like rinse and sets I think American auto racing has just gone out of style with many people and while Nascar has no doubt hastened the departure of many they were bound to have left anyway. Nascar could do away with pit road speeds, commitment cones, ugly assed cars and any number of other things and I don't think we would see any meaningful change in the number of people following the series. Auto racing is not going to die and neither is Nascar but they will become smaller in scope and will feature a dedicated group of followers much like today. IDK what the ratio is of fans exiting Nascar each year to those entering but the losses are palpable and any attempt to deny that or spin it another way is foolishness, IMO.

Nascar could do itself a huge favor by not setting itself up to be ridiculed as ignorance is on display every time Brian France opens his mouth and other mouth pieces like Brent Dewar makes comments like the later starting times are due to the fact most Nascar fans reside in Cali. I have only listed 2 examples but if you don't want to be treated as a group of incompetent fools then don't behave like them. If Nascar was as relevant as the NFL they would be getting roasted mercilessly on the late evening talk shows.
 
JohnHill said:
Can't go back to the old style now. The fan base has changed... a good part of the viewers right now we're probably brought in when NASCAR was growing into the 2000s and then they were shown the chase... like the drama or not if you remove what they do right now, it won't be pretty...

The toothpaste is already out of the bottle
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They could change it back to what it was before the chase. Then newer fans would know what us old timers felt like, when they changed to what they have now. Of course it won't happen, BF never makes a bad decision.
 
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